I like to try to keep to the presumptive 'image' people would have had in selecting a class. I (and I suspect most others) pictured someone mostly focused on physical combat, not spell combat. Just because our dps (of what there is) has drifted more to various spells doesn't mean that the trend should continue. I remember the Velious re-tune (Warrior baseline 100, Rogue 140, Monk 120, Pal 80), We should get back to something approximately this with our all-in undead DPS at a relative 105.
I very much dislike tying what I'll call 'balancing buffs' to recourses for currently hardly ever used spell lines. We just end up being very script like where you cast the same 4 self-buff/recourses continually mob after mob. I have concerns regarding ae aggro. I can't confirm, but have read that heal aggro is capped and I don't know if that means valiant line would essentially top out and not provide future gains in terms of aggro. In general I think 1 targeted ae, 1 (unlimited target) PBAE, and a fast-cast heal with decent heal aggro should suffice. This is assuming values are appropriate.
I believe part of the Dev motive behind this is that strong melee DPS leads to strong swarming ability via ripostes. Single target spell combat doesn't add to that. For example, as a tank class, why not add triple riposte to both weapon and shield to increase melee DPS while tanking? Answer, because that would increase swarm tanking ability. Same answer for more damaging defensive proc abilities.
I really liked the hot added on our stun. How about more abilities added on with each stun? Ideas: Stun that procs yaulp also. Stun that has a heal attached. Stun that doubles base damage when one handed for one minute. Stun that procs a group cure. A random proc off any stun similar to what wizards have in the claw line that gives a random melee damage boost.
Wulf, Although I don't doubt you, I think if that is their argument it is very weak. Holding back basic needed and appropriate direct offensive gains due to an objection based around an absurd mechanic (riposting all mobs in frontal arc) is asinine. If absolutely needed for some reason that is simply solved, make ripostes only yield attacks against the current target. Heck, if they still want to preserve it out of nostalgia simply have another toggle mode with a short cool-down. I've grown weary with the notion the answer to most things are more buttons to mash to trigger buffs, procs, recourses, etc.
Just spit-balling, but it sounds to me like you could solve most of that with a spell that works something like this would (I think it's done correctly - using harmonious, splash, earthquake, and crush for examples to mash together): Resplendent Burst of Holy Light Classes: PAL/110 Skill: Abjuration Mana: 3250 Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0.5s, Recast: 24s, Rest 1.5s 1: Cast: Resplendent Illumination if Hit By Spell 2: Limit Target: Single 3: Limit Caster: Exclude Self 4: Cast: Resplendent Light Resplendent Illumination Mana: 10 Target: Caster PB AE Range: 35' Resist: Magic -10 Reflectable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Hate: 960 1: Decrease Current HP by 2036 (If Not Undead Or Summoned) 2: Decrease Current HP by 2749 (If Undead) 3: Decrease Current HP by 2443 (If Summoned) Resplendent Light Mana: 10 Target: Caster PB Range: 35, AE Range: 35' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Hate: 960 1: Increase Current HP by 2361 A spell like that could be useful in a group situation where you're packed in tight and adds come along - the short range AE aggro + heal. Could also be useful on a raid if mobs aren't being mezzed and potentially deadly if they are (gives a trade-off that they like to build into things). It would still be considerably less powerful (unless I screwed it up) than the War/SK AE aggro tools and has a paladin-ish look to it (fast cast, AE heal, more damage to undead, etc...). The question is, do they want to get creative with the spells we get to help cover deficiencies we do have or does it go against their design ideas.
Kleitus you're describing a buff that casts a PBAE heal and conditionally casts a PBAE nuke if the paladin is hit by any single target spell cast by another PC/NPC? There is no buff duration (2 minutes?) or you do mean something else? I get the sense that this would turn a paladin into a spell caster booby trap, similar to a defensive/reactive proc buff.
Kleitus, Its just a personal preference, but I would rather avoid even more short duration buffs/recourses. I think beacon, lodestar, and valiant can suffice with adjustments to items such as target limits, hate amounts, recast. As far as offense goes - there are also a lot of tools there... they just don't move the needle much.
Huh? Maedhros, if you're referring to the recent patch note about double riposte then notice that was stealth patched last month in September, well before comments in this thread.
I never saw a stealth nerf, just saw you two's discussion about riposte and then boom nerf. If there was a stealth nerf back before your conversation, then sorry!
It would be a huge stretch to think a patch several days after a convo had anything to do with changes anyways. That’s not a hit fix change...
I think Pallies should have the best mount. A little faster, a little easier to control. Maybe some extra stats for riding the mount. Especially undead. There are enough places mounts are not allowed to keep the playing field even.
Mount usage cancels Yaulp. It is still very useful as it is instant cast and as fast as any other (I think). I really don't like the positioning ability while mounted, so I wouldn't really want overall 'balancing' to include special mounted-only benefits (which of course wouldn't be available in no-mount areas).
The witness check helps, but honestly I can't say how much. It absolutely used to be ignored at time, and it seems to be reliably noticed now. The group I used to play with have all moved on. We had all gotten disgruntled during the time our aggro was significantly worse than it is now. Now I just box. One of our higher-hate AE abilities should be PB and unlimited.