Untrue. Those clickies worked for many years (since 2008) starting with Vex Thal drops (e.g. Call of Sky clicky), PoTime (Symbol of the Planesmaster) and finally that chestplate (and Grelleth raid clicky). I was alluding to that fact as to why stuns have been a viable play style for longer then might have been otherwise. In fact the nerf brings greater value to actually using class stuns vs relying on non-class clickies to activate those heals. The problem with the items was that they enabled a steady steam of group heals indefinitely while casting nukes, and that was just having your cake and eating it too (unbalanced). The nerf restores the balance (and choice).
While not extremely noticeable, I’m a big fan and find it a slight quality of play improvement. I’m even pleased they nerfed it down from the get go. I rather it start off on the right foot and potentially be a tad too low/just about right versus it being deemed overpowered and nerfed into oblivion. Equally as important; I think it’ll be a relatively easy thing to properly scale going forward and opens the door for other interesting things that are Paladin-esque. I can’t imagine many, if any Paladins complaining about it. I think most are simply pleased some of our issues were finally heard
Yet were all nerfed from procing the stun ending with the BP. Your skipping the point, They no longer make stuns viable because they no longer work to proc Paladin heals. I mean forcing additions stuns to proc heals. Counting on an outlier stun heal proc is nuts. Glad you like Stuns. They are a limiting factor for the class that has a nitch now and then more less than anything.
Well the stun are less viable after the item nerf for sure. They are still more valuable with Healing Light AA then not (as is Blunted Blade which might otherwise be ignored). That's my point of keeping the history straight. Times change and we adapt our play styles. The paladin class has several passive healing abilities and counting on them is part of the game. I supposed you don't rely on Blessing of Life, weapon lifetaps, Preservation heals, Armor disc heals, BP clickie heals, either then? Passive healing is one thing that separates both knight classes from warriors, so why not make the most of it in the right circumstances?
Do you really want to be dramatic and basically drop every other Paladin ability in there? You missed Lay Hands. You have to depend on them to survive along with your heals, if they don't proc your dead, end of story. We have a difference of opinion, lets not get stupid what makes up a Paladin. Why you felt the need to suddenly add vs a warrior to the argument and that had nothing to do with what we were discussing. It was about Paladin abilities not other class abilities vs Paladins.
Keyword is "passive" Warpeace, which help mitigate damage, enabling knights to do some amazing things like swarm tanking and soloing named. Talk about hyperbole lol.
Except we were talking specifically about stuns that proc heals. If you would like to keep jumping from one ability to another have at it. But when you talk about one specific ability and I pushed back you chose to throw basically all class abilities into the pot to prove a point? Paladins have many passive abilities and that is a joke to me why they are all spread out over so many different types and not consolidated to make the class more stream lined. I get needing to do some work to be efficient at self healing but Daybreak has paladin self healing components all over the place. Its a huge mess.
I disagree for the most part. Most of this stuff was nerfed because you could target a Player or yourself and mash Divine Stun indefinitely, triggering endless group heals. -Divine stun etc: Definitely was reasonable to stop this -Regarding items like like Mistmoore BP: These procs aren’t aided by Weapon Affinity aa. If some Paladins wanted to forego DPS by using these type of items instead of our spell proc buff they should have been allowed. Especially after camping such items for that singular purpose. I went with Aten Ha Ra gloves for the 0.5 second cast time personally and also because it took so many kills to get it. Regarding other items like Solteris, TSS group Chestpiece: This becomes more arguable IMO. As you’ve pointed out in prior discussions, Paladins take more spike damage than Warriors/Shadowknight. This is due to how our brief stuns affect NPC timing. Items of this nature pre-nerf really helped offset this problem IMO
For a time, but DS, DP, FoD abilities trigger HL again, so I'm not sure that was strong motivation for the Devs. The tradeoff between using paladin Fury buff vs any of those clickies that trigger Healing Light was a no brainer. The DPS from Fury was and is laughably low (a few percentile) while the group healing was not. The method the Devs chose to make Fury viable was to take away the clickies vs buffing its damage/effects. Agree with the other bits of history you added.
Which is another thing to fix. Fury should be equal to or more damage than inquisitors judgement procs are limited in that they are a fixed amount via proc rate. Hell if fury line matched the damage of vanquish we still wouldn’t see high returns do you feel overly protected from steely procs? The devs are so afraid to step outside of the spreadsheet formulae that incremental increases make little to no difference. I feel compelled to parse the fury line just to show its uselessness 31 dps in a world of 10mil ho mobs what is the point.? 2nd spire anyone? If any ability has marginal impact that doesn’t get modified by other classes why even use them? That is why % based abilities always trump anything else. Ie first spire over all else gain 10dps or gain %based heal mods. Nothing needs to be all powerful but if it has a cool down it should have an impact
To add I miss the triggers of healing light from non conventional means it allowed Paladins with the desire to chase down clicks to have an impact at the end game and separate themselves from the less ambitious. Having the solteris bp and the tss group bp allowed you to gain something viable in endgame content situationally. Hit the no click a few healing mods and bam look at him go meanwhile other classes enjoy %based abilities not retroactively nerfed because meh. Those bps etc allowed me extra umph in dire situations. Spamming a familiar with dis/fod to group heal was Lulzy though
While I agree with this statement, I do have to go wow. I can't even start to count the times lately have seen posts along the lines of "a sk can do this, why don't paladins have something similar" or a thinly veiled nerf request.
Good to hear. I haven’t grouped with a Pal since the patch but raided plenty and haven’t noticed much difference in that arena, is why I asked. The guildmate I chatted with made it sound like it was still a nice fix/improvement, though.
I'll vote for Fury line improvements. A huge damage increase would still be less then 10% of a paladin's total DPS. Adding some utility to it is another option, like ToT healing (you mention Steely procs). Paladin "imbue weapon" spell line has stagnated, while being upgraded much more creatively for other classes. No, I personally haven't used it seriously since TDS. I'd spent time experimenting with Steely, as with all new abilities, to try and find good uses, but it just hasn't merited a spell gem. That being said, the Rejuvenating Steel spell line has some good "paladin" ideas built into it: Pseudo emergency spell because of 400% rate mod and 0.5s cast time Pseudo priest contingency spell because it's a buff, long recast, and 400% rate mod ToT for melee directed healing that encourages the paladin to actively DPS (warrior + cleric) ToT also means paladins stack up say spot healing on main tank (raid friendly) Quick cast time means it's intended to be refreshed in combat (swarm tanking friendly) I think Steely's main problem is that spell gems are simply too precious a resource for such a (weak) spell. Steely has way way too much dead time to take up a spell gem, limited by its 10 hit count and 2 minute recast time. With a few tweaks Steely could be the other "new yaulp" now that Refute casting is about to be nerfed. Steely would be used a lot if paladins were given an activated AA for it (hint to Devs).
Remove the Paladin agro mod from Preservation line and put it on Armor of Steadfast Faith line. This keeps it on a Paladin only spell and removes the stupid counter. Sure it increases the duration but being on a buff just over 5 minutes was a poor choice to start with. They can increase Sk voice duration to match if needed so feelings don't get hurt.
Revitalizing Steel needs the heal procs doubled at the minimum. There is no reason I should get the 10 procs out consistently in 1 min or less and have to wait another minute before I am able to recast. I believe 20 procs would be more reasonable and get more use from this spell. Even 25-30 proc counters might still be reasonable. Current recast is 2 minutes. Duration is 2 min 22 sec. I do feel this could be another area paladin healing could be looked at for consolidation to better streamline the class.
The SK equivalent for ourselves is the Touch of Hemofax recourse and it lasts ~17m when cast (requires a mob or eyeball to cast on). Should be similar % and duration to VoT (I think voice is slightly longer duration-wise). Giving it a 2.5+ hour duration would seem a little silly. At that point may as well just make it an AA with a toggle like Bold Attacks?
Well sure, but consider the Paladin agro is 15% and attached to a 5 min 22 sec buff with proc counters Daybreak started it at silly. Honestly they should have made it a new Paladin AA or spell and they could have mirrored its duration with Voice, sadly they didn't.
I think it would make more sense to put it on the admonish line, after removing the negative hate mod.
