Issue with this is that people see a raid geared tank and cry to have tuning done according to what a raid tank can do in the group game. Then group tanks get steam rolled.
I enjoy my enchanter. We don't need other classes "Tanks" to be nerf-ed to make the class enjoyable. I would say about 70-80% of the chanter today are buff bots / boxed toons that don't know how to play the class. We let me say they know how to turn on ADPS / Mez / maybe pull but in truth they never got into the class enough to see it real power. The Mana return nerf is not that big of deal. if you have mana issue as a chanter then maybe it time review your class and learn how to play it because you have more mana regen tools then any other class. Be tween mana aura , your robe , 2nd spire , "C", and other AA's you should be fine if not then go look up some of the clickies that let you twin cast for free or click to feel your mana. Most ppl will buff you if you ask so get druid skin , bst SE, mage rod etc your mana will be fine. if not maybe time to upgrade your gear with more HME. As for the DPS nerf. It was just our DoTs in a group setting I don't not many ppl that would drop 3 dots on more then 1-2 mobs at a time. so a recast time on them is more of a nerf on raid where you could load up dots on all the mobs. as for the damage drop on the dots o Well just nuke more 1 nuke will make up the lost damage. If your still hurt about the nerf maybe do something only a hand full of chanter do and use CHARM. guess what charming can add a lot of dps and I know most ppl don't use it. Like I said most ppl are just boxing and don't want to play with charm because it requires you to have to focus for when it drops but charming can add more dps then all of our dots together if done correctly. The point if your QQing about chanter nerf then you were not playing the chanter correctly to start with. they are still a great class and have many options open to them if you just take the time to think out side the box and learn to play the class. The only thing I would ask for is to bring back "Compliant Lurch" this was one of the best spells ever that brought much joy to the class. I would love to see it return if you didn't like it for current content then maybe drop the level of mob it works on to blue con's but giving us such a fun spell then taking it away was just mean.
Group geared tanks with AA, current gear and decent augs are nothing to sneeze at either. The problem is with poorly geared tanks which also lack AA and also possibly with players that don't press buttons. The main advantage to the raid gear is being able to take more risk and push dps while tanking multiples.
Understood. All I was pointing out is that a lot of times, you see calls for nerfs based on what someone sees a raid geared tank do in the group game.
4-6 current mobs for a group geared tank would be one pull and then their discs would be down. While I'm not Drogba level tank skill wise, but my SK does have full pholigston and 30k+ AA and decent augs. When I went from my previous mix of TBM/EoK raid gear to full pholigston, I gained ~40k hp and 1200 ac. I think Im around 290k/8k ac buffed currently. If I were in a group consistently pulling 4-6 mobs, there's no way I'd be able to keep up tbh. I can do 2-3 forever basically with a good healer, but doubling that starts to get dicey and I'd want some form of CC around. Enchanters certainly have their place still, just as shaman do even though shaman aren't topping parses with ease after their nerfs.
Everything you said is 100 percent fact , but I know tanks who can take on far more then just 4-6 mobs and we have all seen the videos of them doing it !!! YiMin
Personally the spell not being free would be fine that is the least of my issues. I never said the spell should be 'free' to cast that actually came from the devs when the spell line was initially made a long long time ago. High mana cost and if only used against one target the mana cost was returned. You could blow mana and cast it on lots of mobs for dps but the mana would run out. That is the spells original intended state. My issue is all the nerfs too other stuff when we had excessive/endless mana to abuse them then on the back end nerf to the mana. We told the devs directly that the mind storm line was an issue it was ignored for years! The instant they changed it from casting a recourse spell on us to it's current method of restoring mana it has been broken. This goes back further than any dot revamp. It is not just about the dps that is simply the last thing to be nerfed.
It is more than 25% More than just one dot was nerfed, ~60% nerf to our best dot base damage per tic, and a 35%~ reduction to base damage on initial damage to our second dot which is more or less our best nuke and the reduction to damage per tic on that dot as well. Back 2~3 years our spot was about 10-25% behind a mage depending on the event now after nerf it will be a real struggle to get close anywhere close to that. We have had many nerfs on other things leading up to nerfing the mana issue and it still is not a proper fix to the mind storm lines issues. If they had never switched the mind storm line from using a recourse buff to a 'recourse tap' so many issues would have never come up to be nerfed and now they still don't get it right when they address mind storm line. It is not about a short term dps spike then reduction it is so much more but it now feels like no amount of player input works i should probably just give up.
I agree that the nerfs were too hard hitting. For one, why is there a recast timer on an ability that never had one before? Hopefully there will be another pass of fixes to boost these spells a bit, similar to what they did after the druid/shaman nerfs.
Why do players always insist on trying to get other classes nerfed? I hope I never "have" to have an enchanter in group. I don't mind having a puller; however, whenever an enchanter is needed I always have to do the mission twice because I don't normally play an enchanter in my box crew. Requiring 1 class to be successful should never be a direction that this game goes to. I see where you say single puller; however, we all know that there have been events that could not be done without an enchanter. I myself hope to never see those events. I especially hate it when they make it so a mob can be mezzed, but can't be rooted. It's a clear sign that that event was made solely for enchanters. Tipt was a mission I hated. The way to get through was with an enchanter charming a mob and going that way. Forget using a tank. After a while all the enchanters were tired of doing that mission, and anyone who didn't get it done were just sol.
That one was pretty funny, I remember that too It was either Tank(good one) + healer(good one) +debuffer + puller .... orrrr a competent enc can just carry 5 through ;p Honestly, though, there's much of EverQuest that's "soft" to some particular class. Monks have played Magic Bullet before, pretty frequently, as have magicians, or sometimes a tank. Tipt just stuck out as the culminating bottleneck of Gates' tier1 progression.
No, not all of what he said is "100% fact". Much of the "how many" we can tank depends on the group and the where and of course the "how long" and "how often". Also, a SHD can of course tank far more (group mobs at least), simply because of MC and epic. To be specific: He said for example "one of the biggest issues out there is that tanks do not need an enchanter.". Excuse me? That's an issue these days, and even "one of the biggest" ones we have? I've NEVER needed an ENC in my group. Zone-knowledge and class-knowledge let me pull no more than i could handle in most cases. Still, i always LIKED (and still do) having an ENC in my groups - they make things that much easier. These days, no class is really NEEDED for anything anymore - for each and everything in the group game, you either got multiple choices of classes that "can do it", or you have different approaches that work. But yes: certain class-combinations for specific tasks (like the RoS Hero missions to give a recent example) makes things a LOT easier or even possible. He went on to state " I do feel developers need to look at how many mobs a tank can tank at once". This is rubbish. Tanks have their way of doing things, and other classes have theirs. Even as a tank, in MANY zones and MOST places i can pull singles - without any tricks. In a FEW places i need "tricks" like FD potions and howl or so, but i still usually manage to get camps split after a round or two of spawns. Again: an ENC makes that easier, and takes the need off for me to worry about spawn times or about correlating pulls with bio breaks and such. The major gripe i read from the post you quoted there is that THIS enchanter does not feel "wanted" much. Which is bad, ok. But it's still a "him only" thing and can hardly be generalized. I am still fond of ENCs, almost as much as i am of BSTs, and when i do not "have to" tank for a change (it's hard to replace a raid-geared WAR that happens to know how to play his class too), i love taking him out for some XP. And for the "not wanted" thing: I've only this last SAT grouped with an ENC-main - and that one like most others i know are welcome to join me again - DESPITE him wanting to tell me in my own group how i should handle things... It's people that make or break it, for themselves as much as for others. Some people's own insecurities make them feel "less wanted" and oher people's ignorance lets them not see the strength of others. ENCs were hit, and hit badly and way overboard, yes. But unwanted? Finished as a class? Far from it! In the end, i like to group with the people i group with, regardless of their class - i NEVER choose my group based on the classes they bring, at most i change the "where" according to that part! Guess that simply more should to that, at least that is the impression i get from threads such as this one.
And if your only damage were from dots, you'd be right. But your damage also comes from nukes, procs, etc that you do. Unless you just cast 3 dots on a mob and then afk until they wear off.
In the group game ( I don't raid on the chanters, not my main) I've noticed almost no difference in play. My normal box team is BST BRD ENC. My damage line up for the chanters is Mindslash for the synergy proc then two strangulate casts for the nuke portion, rinse and repeat this till Mob dies normally only get two cycles of this before the bst and bard destroy the mob, also the 3 spell cast is macrod. As for names I hit burns hit dicho, drop all 3 dots then continue with the Mindslash, strangle, strangle casts. So yah in the GROUP game it's almost not a noticeable nerf.
What I said is a fact! Tanks can take on more then 6 mobs easy,spin it anyway you like the videos are out there .. YiMin
Everyone complains for years they been nerfing and denerfing every class this is silly game so whats the big deal now oh boy wow
Day Break knows they have been angering their player base what happens if all the shaman druids and enchanters quit the game?
