I'd call that a matter of perspective than anything else. That said I've had my necro since beta as broken as they've been I kept him around and saw some decent periods of value like HOT. But at the current pace of the game the last 3 expansions I think they have moved from broken to just flat out pointless. I retired him two months ago - even pulled him out of my fellowship. 28k aa. oh well.[/quote]
You ever think that maybe it's because the number of actual main necros is so low these days, they can no longer form a significant voice in the community? The smaller a population gets, the less representative it actually becomes of what the average player thinks, and past a certain stage, they begin to reflect survivor bias. In the end, should there come a day when there's just one necro left, who stuck through it all because he's a masochist, should we be satisfied as long as he is satisfied, and cheer for a job well done because, after all, he's happy? Here's an idea - people join, and leave, classes regularly in this game, and their decision to do so is often driven by class design, and changes to it. I'm not talking about flavor of the month choices, though plenty of that happens, too, but when a class is fundamentally broken, the majority of players tend to leave, and the opinions of those who remain, naturally become filled with survivor bias, such that it becomes a highly messed up view of how the class should be. Indeed, they might even come to love being screwed, should it get so bad that the only people left are masochists. Of course, it's not that bad yet - there's still a significant amount of necros who seem aware of the class's problems - and their opinions should matter more. But saying the rest of us should have no say is completely ridiculous. People aren't born into the necro class. They make a conscious choice to become a necro, based on how they evaluate the class. Improve the class, and more people might join it, and become actual necros - now there's a thought.
I never looked very closely at recent necro dots but all these limitations based on raid boss look pretty terrible. Has anyone talked about doing the reverse? Like what if you had a high DPS short duration dot that placed a debuff on the mob that locked out the normal dot lines for like 5 minutes or something while adding some group benefit like +30% to wizard damage, etc. Then there really would be zero incentive to use it on a raid boss or anything at all that lives longer than X amount of time.
Their swift line is high dps short duration, but they all share a timer. Easy fix for devs would be to just unlink them and adjust damage accordingly. That along with fixing the mob debuff limit would probably be enough to tide necros over.
Patch Day!!! Necro revamp time! Oh wait, that was a dead dream I had 2+ years ago. /Tucks himself in and goes back in the digital box to stay...
Necros want to stay queens of solo game. Necros want to stay top tier raid dps. Necros want to become top tier group dps. Necros want all that in easy mode, thus they need the dot revamp asap.
Your statements look more like an intention to provoke a fight, but I'll still answer them from my experience. Soloing, necro is still very good at soloing, he is still my best man if I'm gonna solo, but the thing is fewer and fewer stuff can be soloed now. Raid dps, I have very little experience about raiding, so I'll leave this for someone more experienced. Group dps, I have no idea where your "top tier" came from, currently necro is far from a decent dps, let alone being top tier. I don't understand why some people like you are so hostile to necros, maybe in the process of requesting help, some of us brought up other classes for comparison, thus made some of you feel threatened, I feel sorry for that because that's not our attention, at least not mine. It's quite sad to see people blinded by hatred. Your class don't get better or worse because necros get or don't get help(actually you might be doing better if what we got is some group focus like kizant suggested), stop and think about it, create a necro to play a bit if possible, hopefully that will help you to understand necro more.
You're entire post was perfect - it shows what necro's are able to do in the raid scene and if we all use the abilities we have along with raid focus, everyone should hit those parses. There is nothing special beyond that to hit 400K on a 900 second fight. In my guild, all (3) necro's are all with in a few thousand DPS from one another (we're equally geared, equal AA,, and play at the same level). If you don't have the AA, don't have raid focus, and you're not using them...which seems to be a common theme because people like to "save" abilities, you're DPS will suck on raids and in the group game, compared to other players who do have and use those tools. About the group game - do you actually have issues with your group game - Menown? Serious issues? I am all for some tweaks to fast dots to help non raid focus, geared players in the group game but as I've said before...the designers will not get it right. Playing a Shaman and Zerker and watching both classes get stupid upgrades, then even worse down grades...a few times over the last few years, I fear they'll destroy the Necro class to help make someone feel good in the "group" game. There is the issue for those who like to play the class, and on raids there is an issue with the amount of debuff slots available, which limits the amount of need for the class - that is probably the biggest issue with the class? But that goes back to the lack luster skill of those who can fix that in the game, and how bad they'll break it trying to overcome that issue - not an easy problem to solve. Group with different people, group with other necros - I've never had anyone click a group parse up and go - wow you suck I am replacing you with some random wiz, dps melee (been playing since 2001). If your guilded with those people, or play with people who are like that, ask why do you play with them? I just make sure in the group game I work my tools and maximize my DPS to the fullest extent. On my server, there really is no group game left, other than with friends and at times guild mates. If you count on the random group game to sustain your entertainment, its dead at this point of year and this far into an expansion.
Sorry but you can't say raid is more important than group or vice versa. A necros only job in the group game is a parse. And your 100% right people as a rule won't parse you and kick you out. BUt who the hell wants to play a class that will see no noticeable difference from when you are afk or not. Yes the group game is a major issue. There is simply not enough tics between a live mob and a dead mob. That's a simple math reality. Mobs in the group game tend to last 3 tics in total. Which means you are not getting more than 2 tics out of most of your dots at BEST. That's a very obvious issue.
Outside of warrior, the necro was my favorite class to play. It was different than the generic key binding button mashing of today's dps. However, I have since retired my necro when boxing and now exclusively box a warrior and a sham. The necro was just too much trouble to keep around and served no real benefit in terms of dps. One of my fellowship mates decided to make a bard and it looks like that will be our replacement for the sham. It's only logical as he will be a bigger boost to the group than the necro, especially with the sham. A war, rog, cleric, sham, bard and dps merc will be much more useful than having the necro around. If they did revamp DoTs to make the necro more useful I'd consider dropping the merc and 3-boxing again. As it stands now, losing the necro to the dps merc has no noticeable impact and that's pretty pathetic.
I feel like attempting to make necromancers function as a third box in a highly melee centric raid geared group may be beyond the scope of the thread? The only suggestion I've read that might impact your situation is a code adjustment to make Sphere of Decay parsable
Would you like me to discuss how terrible necros are in the group game even when I was exclusively using him? No matter which way you slice it, necro are pretty useless in the group game. You may get a couple ticks at most off with your swifts on normal mobs and if you're lucky you will get half your DoTs on a named.
I saw you were 100% agree with fransisco, but now you are all for some tweaks to swift dots? Even though a considerate person like menown is more respectable, it's totally fine to be selfish and only speak from your standpoint.(I understand some raid necros prefer things to stay how it is, according to how things have been fixed, I'd say it's a reasonable concern.) However, it's not cool to provide misleading information/opinion to achieve what you want. Not sure if you were doing this on purpose, but I saw you mixing up different concepts, when you say you have no problem about group game, which one you actually mean? 1. With raid gear, I have no problem beating group content. 2. I have friends and guildies I regularly group with, we don't care about my performance in group. 3. There is a gap between me and other group members, but I think it's within a reasonable degree. Correct me if I get you wrong, but from your previous comments, I think you are actually saying 1 and 2, and implying that if there is a gap, it's due to individual performance.(i.e. some people just don't know how to play) I am really confused and honestly don't know how is it possible you can catch up in a short duration fight,(from kizant's grouping experience, necro is doing about 1/2 of his dps, I assume the necro he groups with is most likely also raid-geared and knows how to play) so I am gonna ask, how's your dps compare to others in the group?
I haven't seen a legit Necro parse in a solid group on this entire thread. I saw a necro link some low ball parse to try and prove a point and then say - rarely had multiple mobs and didn't use any of his burn AA's because he likes to save them for named mobs - which are random... useless to save burns for. There are necros who say the mob is going to die in X seconds why cast a dot - it may only get a tic or two, so I dont cast a dot - wtf for? I cast dots on mobs until there dead, if i can get one tic out of it super. We dont have mana problems as a class, so if your nuke is down, skelly pets are down, mob is alive and you have a dot up to cast not on the mob - cast it. There are so many lazy necros in this game. Considering I've been max AA, VP flagged, Crestras Earing, VP quest done since end Feb/March - I don't have any logs to put up from solid group content (I delete them). Most of mine are from me and box - shaman. I have one from last night with my shaman and a guild shaman, hitting 110K dps...with my pet as tank. I will try and put one together this week, with melee and bust caster DPS. I am not at the top on those, but I also not sitting at 30k DPS like people seem to think we are lol. Pretty confident if i set the group up right - I'll be in the 140K range, while others will be 40-50kDPS above me. I am good with that on group content. Group - 38 mobs, roughly 40 seconds per mob. Camping VP key dropper for guildy - very lazy pulls, didn't bother with AE aura. I am not a mage, zerker, or wizard. I play a class that can output 100K dps endlessly without breaking a leg, with my pet as tank - btw often tanking 2 mobs same time. If thats not good enough, meh, works for me. We ran out of mobs in the camp with out running across the zone to pull more, didn't need the exp. So if you had this elite group of melee and caster burst DPS - you'd of been sitting there AFK waiting for respawns. /GU Combined: A Krellnakor overlord in 1552s, 249140k @160529sdps --- Narnon + pets 169212k@109029sdps (109029dps in 1552s) [67.92%] --- Juldee + pets 64147k@41332sdps (47411dps in 1353s) [25.75%] --- Fishbait 9522k@6136sdps (11641dps in 818s) [3.82%] --- Bonehead 5310k@3421sdps (3904dps in 1360s) [2.13%] --- Vabtik 948k@611sdps (2748dps in 345s) [0.38%] --- Harnon 0k@0sdps (0dps in 0s) [0%] Just a shot at one raid from last night. As a necro, I can hang with the best of them and i consider my self a consistent player at best, not the best- there are better necros more suited with the ins and outs of the game. /GU Drusella Sathir in 309s, 1695363k @5486613sdps --- Narnon + pets 136945k@443187sdps (450476dps in 304s) [8.08%] If your on my server, lets play. Lets go kill some namers, looking to try a necro only run on 3 heroic missions in ROS.
