Uncertain, but I'd guess it's just BL pets? Maybe warders were given a higher H2H skill cap similar to how BL originally had one? For tanking yeah, you want whatever's going to generate more hate, and you'd need to just feel that one out. Warders are still too squishy to tank effectively on Phinny, so I haven't played with that yet.
For PLAYERS, the hate per swing is the sum of the weapon’s listed damage, and the damage bonus. Procs, of course, follow cast spell rules rather than melee rules. For PETS, I honestly have no idea how it differs from players, if it does. Does accuracy *really* affect a pet’s hate generation? Or is it like melee, where hate generated per swing has nothing to do with the hit/miss check?
I only have anecdotal/seat-of-pants data (ie none that anybody would actually be convinced of) but I've noticed that when my warder (level 88 pet) is given non-rage weapons he has a much tougher time maintaining aggro over the merc tank even with "protection" running. With no weapons it is rare that the merc can pull aggro from the warder..and when it does happen it's only for a moment. Eye-balling the logs and seeing the "real" parses by others in regards to accuracy I can only speculate that the lack of damage output due to misses is the major factor here. Take that for what it's worth...perhaps nothing...but it "seems" to be the case for me in any case.
To start... A) let's say I'm a bit of a noob. B) let's also say I don't care what level dummy you used, I care about using the same one each time, and not moving your location to the dummy. That you summoned the pets to you, and sent them in, so they always hit at the exact same angle. Not 1 hit the front, 1 hit the back, 1 hit the side etc... with ^^^^ + Focus/Tala & minus epic (i forgot to click it) No Weapons or Haste Belt: /G Combat Dummy Dena in 602s, 9361k @15550 --- Bark (Puzzling) 9289k@15429 (15429 in 602s) Bark -vs- Combat Dummy Dena: -- DMG: 9288507 -- DPS: 15429 -- Scaled: 15429 -- Smash: 9042084 -- Bash: 143727 -- DirDmg: 102696 -- % dmg as normal: 37.4% -- % dmg as critical: 62.6% -- Non-crit rate: 65.9% -- crit rate: 34.1% -- Attempts: 1803 -- Hits: 1509 -- Missed: 88 -- Defended: 206 -- Accuracy: 94.5% -- Avg Hit: 6155 -- Max hit: 13309 -- DMG to PC: 0 Just Haste Belt: /G Combat Dummy Dena in 601s, 11530k @19184 --- #1 Bark (Puzzling) 11498k@19131 (19131 in 601s) Bark -vs- Combat Dummy Dena: -- DMG: 11497568 -- DPS: 19131 -- Scaled: 19131 -- Smash: 11245542 -- Bash: 174226 -- DirDmg: 77800 -- % dmg as normal: 36.4% -- % dmg as critical: 63.6% -- Non-crit rate: 64.9% -- crit rate: 35.1% -- Attempts: 2201 -- Hits: 1837 -- Missed: 100 -- Defended: 264 -- Accuracy: 94.8% -- Avg Hit: 6258 -- Max hit: 13309 -- DMG to PC: 0 Just Brightedge's: /G Combat Dummy Dena in 601s, 9762k @16243 --- #1 Bark (Puzzling) 9655k@16065 (16065 in 601s) Bark -vs- Combat Dummy Dena: -- DMG: 9655243 -- DPS: 16065 -- Scaled: 16065 -- Crush: 9246233 -- DirDmg: 266814 -- Bash: 142196 -- % dmg as normal: 39.6% -- % dmg as critical: 60.4% -- Non-crit rate: 69% -- crit rate: 31% -- Attempts: 1938 -- Hits: 1635 -- Missed: 88 -- Defended: 215 -- Accuracy: 94.9% -- Avg Hit: 5905 -- Max hit: 13309 -- DMG to PC: 0 Brightedge's + Haste Belt: /G Combat Dummy Dena in 602s, 11716k @19461 --- Bark (Puzzling) 11609k@19285 (19285 in 602s) Bark -vs- Combat Dummy Dena: -- DMG: 11609392 -- DPS: 19285 -- Scaled: 19285 -- Crush: 11211533 -- DirDmg: 225068 -- Bash: 172791 -- % dmg as normal: 36.3% -- % dmg as critical: 63.7% -- Non-crit rate: 65.7% -- crit rate: 34.3% -- Attempts: 2187 -- Hits: 1870 -- Missed: 87 -- Defended: 230 -- Accuracy: 95.6% -- Avg Hit: 6208 -- Max hit: 13309 -- DMG to PC: 0 In summary, what I have learned is... I have no idea how you can skew the numbers in favor of your argument. For the life of me, I couldn't even remotely duplicate your results, and would have eaten your original post for breakfast if i had been paying attention back when you posted it. When I first landed in my little casual guild, we ran trials to see what benefited a pet more, aggression/spirit of (level depending) or handing it 2 weapons + a belt. Since pets seem to die during raids, we wanted to maximize DPS & avoid downtime, while not neglecting our little buddies. The numbers then, and the numbers now don't reflect your argument as far as I can see. In my noob opinion, when you want to compare things, you generally want to take out as many variables as possible to ensure the cleanest results. Leaving spells in that have procs in them tends to effect the RNG more than if you had left them out. But since you decided to post your updated numbers, I used your base set +/- what is stated above. Even your original parses where you re-ran a specific set up produced insanely different damage totals. With that said, 10 minute parses dont really = anything, iirc 10 hours is a solid base to work out the RNG. I'm not going back down that road since it was done last year to prove what I showed here. You on the other hand, are more than welcome to dedicate a few days to this. But it's too much for a little casual like me. In closing, what I actually learned is... don't read random garbage people put on the forums, because it just makes you waste time re-learning something you already knew.
previous parses: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...vel-65-eras-and-pet-toys.247410/#post-3633988 Controlled for positioning, but yeah, there were a few unnecessary variables. OK. I reran a simple test. Level 70 pet spell (Spirit of Rashara). 16 ranks of Companion's Fury AA. No pet focus. No buffs. Arena, level 70 test npc (Test Seventy). First test (603s) is with no items on the pet . /tell Bozee Bozee`s warder -vs- Test Seventy: -- DMG: 23986 -- DPS: 40 -- Scaled: 40 -- Bite: 23133 -- Bash: 853 -- % dmg as normal: 93.2% -- % dmg as critical: 6.8% -- Non-crit rate: 95.7% -- crit rate: 4.3% -- Attempts: 638 -- Hits: 392 -- Missed: 246 -- Accuracy: 61.4% -- Avg Hit: 61 -- Max hit: 181 -- DMG to PC: 0 If you pull out just the bites, it's 563 attempts w/ 212 misses for 62.3% accuracy Second test (601s), I handed the pet 2x Fireblades. Same pet, didn't move, positioning was identical and it was the same Test Seventy npc from the first test. Still no buffs, and no items other than the swords. /tell Bozee Bozee`s warder -vs- Test Seventy: -- DMG: 14274 -- DPS: 24 -- Scaled: 24 -- Slash: 8226 -- DirDmg: 5057 -- Bash: 991 -- % dmg as normal: 95.6% -- % dmg as critical: 4.4% -- Non-crit rate: 97.2% -- crit rate: 2.8% -- Attempts: 702 -- Hits: 288 -- Missed: 414 -- Accuracy: 41% -- Avg Hit: 49 -- Max hit: 173 -- DMG to PC: 0 If you pull just slashes, it's 589 attempts w/ 388 misses for 34.1% accuracy Significant accuracy loss, by a percentage that I would think is highly unlikely to be RNG. DD damage doesn't make up for lost melee damage. What I learned is that collecting data can be better than ad hominem; you presented me with different data, I reran with a more controlled design and found similar results. My guess is that y'all's discrepancy is due to using different test npcs? Maybe different levels? I'm gonna find a time to leave tests running overnight sometime soonishly.
also should point out that the brightedge appears to be 1hb, which may not suffer an accuracy penalty whereas fireblade does due to its being 1hs. If the warder skills follow the beastlords's, I would expect h2h, 1hb, and 1hp to be ok accuracy-wise.
That would explain the differences between Rashod's two parses (he used slashing in the first one and blunt in the second) and why Puzzling couldn't duplicate the results. Good eye!
He listed Brightedge's as one of his parses on each set, from the original abomination to the "updated" ones. Since I don't use generic pet pack weapons anyway. I used what I give my pet which happened to be one of the variables, that he attempted to say was a detriment to the warder's. With all that said, since new mage weapons were released & I have been super lazy lately, I will likely run them through the gambit (or maybe ask Bradley to do it) just to see how they compare. As far as TLP goes, I could care less what pets on TLP are doing. Or how a level (anything but 110) reacts, because I'm a selfish & if it doesn't directly affect my playing.... you get the idea.
Same combat dummy for all parses. Each pet attacked from the same location on each parse with only my pet attacking. Pet's name is my name also: Bradley. These are all approximately 10 minute (certainly a lot of room to be further parsed) parses. Prickle for pet focus. Max level. Pets summoned with Spirit of Akalit. Max AA. Extravagant Combatant's Belt for haste. Pet buffs throughout: group perfected levitation tremendous velocity rk. 3 warder's savagery 3 pet illusion white werewolf shared merciless ferocity rk. 3 virzak's aggression rk. 3 1. no belt or weapons Combat Dummy Azia 600s /tell Bradley Bradley -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 9383553 -- DPS: 15639 -- Scaled: 15639 -- Claw: 9236113 -- Bash: 147440 -- % dmg as normal: 37.8% -- % dmg as critical: 62.2% -- Non-crit rate: 65.9% -- crit rate: 34.1% -- Attempts: 1719 -- Hits: 1418 -- Missed: 79 -- Defended: 222 -- Accuracy: 94.7% -- Avg Hit: 6617 -- Max hit: 13875 -- DMG to PC: 0 2. Summoned: Gorstruck Iceblade x 2 no belt 601s /tell Bradley Bradley -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 9989846 -- DPS: 16622 -- Scaled: 16622 -- Slash: 9603146 -- DirDmg: 255500 -- Bash: 131200 -- % dmg as normal: 39.5% -- % dmg as critical: 60.5% -- Non-crit rate: 67.1% -- crit rate: 32.9% -- Attempts: 1849 -- Hits: 1549 -- Missed: 80 -- Defended: 220 -- Accuracy: 95.1% -- Avg Hit: 6449 -- Max hit: 13875 -- DMG to PC: 0 3. Summoned: Gorstruck Iceblade x 2 and Extravagant Combatant's Belt 601s /tell Bradley Bradley -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 12491996 -- DPS: 20785 -- Scaled: 20785 -- Slash: 12106460 -- DirDmg: 210000 -- Bash: 175536 -- % dmg as normal: 36.2% -- % dmg as critical: 63.8% -- Non-crit rate: 64.4% -- crit rate: 35.6% -- Attempts: 2177 -- Hits: 1849 -- Missed: 77 -- Defended: 251 -- Accuracy: 96% -- Avg Hit: 6756 -- Max hit: 13875 -- DMG to PC: 0 4. Brightedges x 2 no belt 600s /tell Bradley Bradley -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 9691040 -- DPS: 16152 -- Scaled: 16152 -- Crush: 9399790 -- Bash: 154000 -- DirDmg: 137250 -- % dmg as normal: 40% -- % dmg as critical: 60% -- Non-crit rate: 67.8% -- crit rate: 32.2% -- Attempts: 1808 -- Hits: 1536 -- Missed: 74 -- Defended: 198 -- Accuracy: 95.4% -- Avg Hit: 6309 -- Max hit: 13875 -- DMG to PC: 0 5.Extravagant Combatant's Belt no weapons 601s /tell Bradley Bradley -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 11718195 -- DPS: 19498 -- Scaled: 19498 -- Claw: 11536243 -- Bash: 181952 -- % dmg as normal: 37.8% -- % dmg as critical: 62.2% -- Non-crit rate: 65.4% -- crit rate: 34.6% -- Attempts: 2092 -- Hits: 1776 -- Missed: 78 -- Defended: 238 -- Accuracy: 95.8% -- Avg Hit: 6598 -- Max hit: 13875 -- DMG to PC: 0 6. Extravagant Combatant's Belt and Brightedges x 2 601s /tell Bradley Bradley -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 12088982 -- DPS: 20115 -- Scaled: 20115 -- Crush: 11785362 -- Bash: 182120 -- DirDmg: 121500 -- % dmg as normal: 37.9% -- % dmg as critical: 62.1% -- Non-crit rate: 65.8% -- crit rate: 34.2% -- Attempts: 2171 -- Hits: 1859 -- Missed: 82 -- Defended: 230 -- Accuracy: 95.8% -- Avg Hit: 6502 -- Max hit: 13875 -- DMG to PC: 0 I will run some more parses when I can I guess but just from these brief 10 ish minute parses it does look like a haste belt and the current summoned mage weapons might be the best option for dps.
Reran some stuff, still can't figure out what I am doing different/wrong to get a different result than the big boys. Please let me know if you see anything in the parses that seems out of place, I'd hate to make decisions on other parses replicating the same issue. Still seeing higher dps WITHOUT the weapons. Maybe it would even out if I let it run longer? Parses were done from the same spot behind the dummy. Pet was summoned with Spirit of Akalit whit Compressed Copper Stud (EM24). I am still missing some Companions Fury AAs. Pet buffs were: Spirit of Beramos Tremendous Velocity Rk. II Virzak's Agression Rk. II Might of the Wild Spirits Shared Merciless Ferocity Rk. III Warders Savagery Rk. II 1. Only Extravagant Combatant's Belt (1809s) /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 48967317 -- DPS: 27069 -- Scaled: 27069 -- Bite: 48067507 -- Bash: 563798 -- DirDmg: 336012 -- % dmg as normal: 42.4% -- % dmg as critical: 57.6% -- Non-crit rate: 70.3% -- crit rate: 29.7% -- Attempts: 9499 -- Hits: 9112 -- Missed: 387 -- Accuracy: 95.9% -- Avg Hit: 5373 -- Max hit: 12446 -- DMG to PC: 0 2. Extravagant Combatant's Belt + Summoned Gorstruck Firebade (1627s) /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 42214757 -- DPS: 25946 -- Scaled: 25946 -- Slash: 40836183 -- DirDmg: 879471 -- Bash: 499103 -- % dmg as normal: 44.9% -- % dmg as critical: 55.1% -- Non-crit rate: 71.7% -- crit rate: 28.3% -- Attempts: 8657 -- Hits: 8194 -- Missed: 463 -- Accuracy: 94.7% -- Avg Hit: 5151 -- Max hit: 12446 -- DMG to PC: 0 Like I said, I would love to learn from you guys if you see anything you could help me out with in the parses.
Rashod, to better match up with what Lifeshriek and Puzzle did try the same test without the proc buffs (Spirit of Beramos and Might of the Wild Spirits) to eliminate that aspect of RNG-related damage for the DPS aspect. And losing those proc buffs would eliminate any effect they might have on skills-based accuracy as well (doubt there is a correlation, but it's best to eliminate all the variables you can). And for the weapon everyone should use the same one....meaning everyone should use fire, or everyone should use ice, etc. for the mage weapons where you can choose the proc to eliminate individual resistances as a variable. From the "defended" events parsed by Lifeshriek, I'd say that the positioning was different as well so if the two of you want apples-to-apples comparisons one of you will need to switch attack positions for your warder. Preferably all parsing for this exercise would be done from behind the dummy. Attacking from the front gives a misleading accuracy number (for our purposes here) due to the order of melee processing. Active defenses fire first, so on successfully defended swings we don't know if they would have ultimately been hits or misses due to the accuracy from weapon skill level and so adds additional variance to the numbers that would need to be smoothed out by a much much longer parse.
*** All test done with bestial savegry, velocity, agression, ferocity. *** Combat Dummy Azia (lvl 110, w/ 1008ac) *** All tests with pet attacking from the rear No Weapons or Haste Belt (20.28 hours): /G Combat Dummy Azia in 73024s, 1013631k @13881 --- #1 Bark (Puzzling) 1013525k@13879 (13879 in 73024s) /tell Puzzling Bark -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 1013524680 -- DPS: 13879 -- Scaled: 13879 -- Smash: 996171786 -- Bash: 17322288 -- WildRamp: 30606 -- % dmg as normal: 38.1% -- % dmg as critical: 61.9% -- Non-crit rate: 65.1% -- crit rate: 34.9% -- Attempts: 213405 -- Hits: 178947 -- Missed: 8979 -- Defended: 25479 -- Accuracy: 95.2% -- Avg Hit: 5663 -- Max hit: 13309 -- DMG to PC: 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just haste belt (15.27 hours): /G Combat Dummy Azia in 55070s, 1047374k @19019 --- #1 Bark (Puzzling) 1047339k@19018 (19018 in 55070s) /tell Puzzling Bark -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 1047338584 -- DPS: 19018 -- Scaled: 19018 -- Smash: 1029594506 -- Bash: 17711288 -- WildRamp: 32790 -- % dmg as normal: 37.8% -- % dmg as critical: 62.2% -- Non-crit rate: 64.9% -- crit rate: 35.1% -- Attempts: 193010 -- Hits: 183808 -- Missed: 9202 -- Accuracy: 95.2% -- Avg Hit: 5698 -- Max hit: 13309 -- DMG to PC: 0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1hs mage weapons (ice) + belt (20.27 hours): /G Combat Dummy Azia in 73000s, 1410622k @19324 --- #1 Bark (Puzzling) 1410584k@19323 (19323 in 73000s) /tell Puzzling Bark -vs- Combat Dummy Azia: -- DMG: 1410584094 -- DPS: 19323 -- Scaled: 19323 -- Slash: 1358638214 -- DirDmg: 28402150 -- Bash: 23543730 -- % dmg as normal: 39.3% -- % dmg as critical: 60.7% -- Non-crit rate: 66.2% -- crit rate: 33.8% -- Attempts: 264387 -- Hits: 252250 -- Missed: 12137 -- Accuracy: 95.4% -- Avg Hit: 5592 -- Max hit: 13309 -- DMG to PC: 0 I got a little lazy on the last one (15 hour) but these should be long enough to work out the variations in the RNG. Still can't find any issues with giving the pet weapons, just that the belt is more of a bonus than the weapons. But that is pretty much common sense. I'm good to call this, not an issue.
Yep, I'd say for the top-level warder with focus, non-issue. The accuracy deficit seems to be on lower level pets (TLP-related) and/or unfocused pets. One thing I'm curious on is why the first parse has "defended" swings, but the other two don't. Seems kinda weird if all of them were done from behind the dummy. In any case, the accuracy with slashing weapons being 95%-plus means that there's no 30%-ish drop in accuracy in this scenario which was the datapoint that was missing. Thanks a bunch for the parses! I'd be interested in seeing Boze (if interested/able) run those same tests as before on the 70 pet with a focus just to see if the accuracy drop-off is level related or focus related. If I get some time I might do the same on the 88 pet this weekend (without and without focus, with and without mage slashing weapons)
Yeah I'll look at running it with a focus again, will be a few days though. my first parse linked early in the thread was focused though. I have an 80ish beast I could test too. Im also curious how y'all are getting 95% accuracy on every test, as I've never seen anything close to that. Is that what high level pets hit on regular mobs? Or is that a result of the combat dummies y'all are using?
Spirit of Rashara, Servant of Chaos focus (i.e., anguish boots), Growl of the Beast (68 haste) as only buff, Test Seventy mob on test server. 16 ranks of Companion's Fury. Gave it one searing torch, leaving the offhand empty, no other items. 2364s. Mainhand (slashing): 84120 damage, 35.6dps, 3040 attempts, 1809 misses, 40.5% accuracy. Offhand (bite): 66051 damage, 27.9dps, 1133 attempts, 305 misses, 64.3% accuracy. Unfortunately, I just can't find time to run daylong parses (1 laptop, use it for work too), but I keep consistently getting the mage weapons showing much lower accuracy than unarmed.
Another, this time with an 80 beast. Spirit of Silverwing, enhanced minion V, only buff is Peerless Penchant. Handed it a single searing torch, offhand empty, no other items. Test Eighty mob. 2015s Mainhand (slashing): 206703 damage, 102.6dps, 3119 attempts, 1873 misses, 39.9% accuracy. Offhand (claws): 125559 damage, 62.3dps, 1026 attempts, 387 misses, 62.3% accuracy.
Thanks everyone for the report and detailed testing on the issue. We've confirmed the problem where the majority of player pets do not have consistent weapon skills (resulting in inconsistent accuracy) and will have this fixed for the May patch.
You are assuming this fix changes things to the better. That might, or might not be the case. I wouldn't fist bump before knowing the outcome.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...tch-notes-and-discussion.249174/#post-3664152 super short test, but it looks like it's a fix!
