Due to playing on Vox there is no way I will be able to find and play with that range of players for parses. Our server lacks any sort of competitive DPS. My understanding however is you've seen these parses because you Raid and grind with all your raiding buddies so why not post some for comparison? I will provide what I can. You seem to be talking about X and I am talking about Y. X = raiding, Y = grouping. Rangers are fine in the grouping game except for a mana problem when not played correctly (I wouldn't be caught dead DoTing while cheetah is up unless I got a GoM proc) Twincasted Bonecrawler crits for almost 400k a tick, if you get lucky with crits that's almost +60k DPS. I am not disagreeing with you that Rangers could use a boost in the raid game(your area of expertise), but we're pretty fine in the Group one. Parse Sathir's tomb 107 mobs group just screwing around camping key piece. Group was a mix of 3 rangers, war, druid, shaman and bard or a merc. Not consistent ADPS. /GU Combined: A bottomless gnawer in 3751s, 1376759k @367038sdps --- #1 Derka + pets 472959k@126089sdps (126156dps in 3749s) [34.35%] --- #2 Warrior tanking + pets 391181k@104287sdps (104315dps in 3750s) [28.41%] Parse this morning doing the last quest in HS. Group make up 2 zerkers (boxed), SK, Bard, Cleric and Ranger. /GU Combined: Pulsating bile in 1178s, 687568k @583674sdps --- #1 Zerker A + pets 191500k@162563sdps (162702dps in 1177s) [27.85%] --- #2 Zerker B + pets 180662k@153364sdps (153364dps in 1178s) [26.28%] --- #3 Derka 179941k@152751sdps (153011dps in 1176s) [26.17%] --- #4 SK + pets 103204k@87609sdps (87684dps in 1177s) [15.01%] OT mission attempt #1 (Fail 29%) group consists of SK, Ranger, Cleric, Druid, 2 Zerkers /GU Cactiikii in 184s, 82787k @449927sdps --- #1 Druid 31950k@173643sdps (214432dps in 149s) [38.59%] --- #2 Derka + pets 31395k@170624sdps (219544dps in 143s) [37.92%] and the combined between us 2 for total fail 1: /GU Combined: A monstrous succulent in 205s, 119623k @580692sdps --- #1 Derka + pets 47835k@232209sdps (237986dps in 201s) [39.99%] --- #2 Druid 34228k@166156sdps (229718dps in 149s) [28.61%] (He was told to only focus on boss) OT mission attempt #2 (Win) same group make up but zerkers were paying attention. Druid was not. Zerker alliances are not on the parses since missing some of Cactiikii HP. /GU Cactiikii in 75s, 89633k @1195109sdps --- #1 Derka + pets 27041k@360541sdps (370419dps in 73s) [30.17%] --- #2 Zerker A + pets 22170k@295597sdps (326026dps in 68s) [24.73%] --- #3 Zerker B + pets 19804k@264049sdps (291231dps in 68s) [22.09%] --- #4 Druid 12862k@171491sdps (321545dps in 40s) [14.35%] I have not been able to play as much as I would like everything listed is from an awesome and long day yesterday full of huge accomplishments. Rangers are still fun.
I don't know who you are talking to, I'm not self hating nor am I a BL if the comment was aimed at me. The problems that are hurting the Ranger class are mostly on raid levels where more focus is pushed on filling a role tank/heals/dps/utility VS groups where lessor demand on these roles is required to be "competitive," or simply put, useful. I also don't think you put more than a few seconds of thought into your comment, basically, you're trolling... grats?
While I'm waiting for your raid parses, we went to VP (my first time there) and broke in for a rescue mission to assist another guild group to be "useful" in the role of DPS to them. Group makeup: 2 rangers, warrior, druid and 2 healer mercs. 33 mobs. Did not have to med until after the 33rd mob. /GU Combined: A mature flame protector in 1110s, 354864k @319697sdps--- #1 Derka 155068k@139701sdps (144115dps in 1076s) [43.7%] --- #2 Ranger #2 104968k@94566sdps (97013dps in 1082s) [29.58%] --- #3 Warrior tanking + pets 79483k@71606sdps (72061dps in 1103s) [22.4%]
Shame the Druid was AFK otherwise they surely would have been #1. Also I seem to remember you saying you had an EoK chase bow which on the ghost server that is Vox makes you pretty much God tier equipment wise.
Nope, not on board with the shitpost. 33 group mobs across 20 minutes of fighting are not a 3 minute single mob raid burn for druids to tear up with every cooldown ever on their full set of dots. You're not on Vox, so with your Phlogiston Compound Bow that makes you God*+* tier equipment wise, I guess? If you're not matching Derka's performance, perhaps instead of shitposting maybe you should see what you're doing wrong. If you ARE matching Derka's performance without bard or shm, and you're really getting owned? Pull up a log. 355mil hp of VP basepop can't be a tall order really. Your 140k sustained, your druid friend just putting that to shame. Let's see it.
He probably could have but for testing purposes it didn't line up right (we wiped trying to sneak through lava and he had a corpse further in zone). To clarify a chase variable in all parses posted, every class listed has chase weapons. The warrior I believe has chase in every slot since he's our best tank. When chase drops in our guild groups it automatically goes to the person that could utilize it most. Later in the week I will be in there for more testing and give the druid the okay to go ham. We only have 10 people flagged for VP because of the mission bottleneck so it's a slow process to rotate people into the DPS group.
Doing well in group situations is not the hard part with DPS for Rangers, sustaining that DPS is. In the end I'm not impressed with his parse because as he said the Zerkers were being boxed, we have no idea how much better they could have been doing or not. Now do a 10-20 min raid parse (I dont know where you get 3 min) and no ranger is gonna make parse. I have no interest in learning Derka's way of playing the ranger because the odds of it being much different than any other good or great Ranger is near 0%... We get all the same AA's same focus, gear, clicks, spells and so on. Derka might have lessor gear but it's mostly the same as it's just a lessor version of the same thing. I'm happy Derka posted a parse and he has been very nice in this thread, but he also mentioned the Zerkers are boxed, I dono the role of the druid (healer and dps??) and from the sounds of it he only focused on DPS. If I posted raid parses it would show a different story, no boxes, highly competitive and equally geared players... Triton is not tied for first due to our lazy crew, just sayin. Again, nice of him to post the parse but boxing is hardly the same as a full time player on that toon, we all know this.
Thanks for posting the parses, Derka. Those of us who aren't really sure what rangers can and can't do enjoy when some facts are brought to the conversation. Avory, I sympathize with your posts, but I'd personally be a lot more convinced with a parse showing a clear deficiency in performance and an explanation with what you're doing that makes other ranger experts say, "Yeah, you're doing what you should be doing.". I know you're not trying to convince me of anything, I'm just trying to help you make a stronger argument.
I concur with everything Avory is saying. Sure, in short burst setting we can do some pretty good damage. But on Raids with a drawn out sustained damage we aren't even going to touch other classes that Avory mentioned earlier. One of the key reasons is mana retention and recovery. The Dev's in their infinite wisom over the last 10 years have morphed us back and forth from melee, to bow, back to mele and now bow again. At the same time we are heavily reliant on casting to supplement our DPS. But our recovery just plain sucks. If they want to throw us a bone make it so both are big burns are not tied in together. Its either Pureshot or Wildstalker's right now. If they would unlink those two and gave us mana recovery that is up to par with some other classes than I think we would be fine with that. Right now , the only way a Raid Ranger is hitting the parse in the top 10 is if they have the most perfect group setup and they coordinate with those in the group on when to hit certain ADPS abilities/spells. It's sad that one of our biggest personal and group defining ADPS abilities, Scarlett Cheetah, sucks the mana right out of us really fast. I mean I hit it for my group and then click it off for me depending on the fight because I want to manage my Mana better. I think the Devs are just plain out of touch with the Ranger class or just don't care how we fare. I guess with RoS expansion it's the Rangers turn to suck more. I think one of the biggest problems is that our class has gone through so many iterations of what we are supposed to be that they lost sight of what we need to perform and keep up on longer sustained Raids and Events. But of course we won't get a Dev response from any of this because they have ignored us in Beta. I found it particularly amusing that in the Beta forums a dev asked us what we would like to see on our BP and most of us mentioned some nice way to recover mana faster and after like 10 people replied he went right to saying we heard the consensus and gave us the stupid Lightning proc crap again. I mean wtf happened just then I was thinking. They didn't even listen to us because it was easier to add more damage onto an already bleh clicky on our BP. So that's my rant I guess. But to boilerplate it: 1: Mana retention/recovery 2: Unhinge our two nice burns 3: Fix the Headshot damage already 4: Lower the mana cost of Scarlet and Dicho or see bullet point 1 above on the recovery of said mana. In the end this will probably end up in the circular file anyways. Pantheon can't come too soon if this keeps up.
To champion the mana issue cause, at face spell gem value and not counting twincast mana costs that VP trip costed 564,867 mana. I just broke 150k mana yesterday. Rangers cast a lot of spells and it would be nice to have some sort of Hiatus like ability for mana.
4 My issue with posting a parse is I'm not even sure im allowed to post Guild parses here considering we are a 'competitive" guild. After the expansion is beat I doubt it would be an issue but it could give away strategies on how our DPS might be focused. If I gave reasons on a parse why pure casters are parsing abnormally high or not even on parse VS other classes again it could get away subtle strats. I only see the game through my eyes as a raider. When i group its either alone with my pally/ranger or with guildies. Sure I group outside of mt guild but many of us are doing the same things and otherwise I like having the option to just log off without having to destroy a group. My post here is mainly my experience posted for devs to see. if others have positive experiences I'm not here to tell them otherwise. I think most will find current raiding rangers are must less ok with our situation than a DPSing ranger in a group with other group geared players. If Devs want a parse i'd send them that information.
This is what I believe you will fine from most higher end raiding rangers. I know Fintank was claiming to be top dps in his guild and I don't doubt him. The issue is his guild is simply not competitive and one reason could easily be lack of DPS standards on the classes that should push him out of the top 5 easily and SHOULD be able to keep him out of the top 10 assuming they have groups built properly and that they have the right set of classes to do so. He also only provided parses pre cheetah nerf while in beta so it was 100% irreverent. Pre cheetah nerf all of our rangers used to parse in the top ten with sometimes 1 or 2 just being under the top ten (not ideal dps groups as the reason). We had the ability to parse top 5 but it was still rare to be top 1 2 or 3, more a 4th and 5th spot. After the Cheetah nerf all 4 of us were pushed to low top 10 and again one or two us us not even in the top ten even in in better built DPS groups. Come the next nerd and now we only once in a great while make top 10 and its usually 1 ranger IF that happens. So it's not like we don't understand how to play the class as some here oddly suggest by telling us to ask others how they burn... I'd sooner bet these bad group rangers would be wondering why their DPS is so horrible on raids if they raided in Triton and find them selves asking US how to do better, and realistically there probably wouldn't be much they can do. The issue clearly was Dich with FR and Cheetah while on disc. In a group you would take a named from 100% to 20% life in 10 seconds... Press burn button with disc - cast all 3 arrow spells - FR - burn all 3 arrow spells... 10 seconds and Rangers were pushing a million DPS, then it sank but it didn't matter because the mob was dead. Now, on raids.... the boss lolz at your 10 second burn. Sure you mashed a ton of personal DPS out but the fight just kept going and your DPS falls dramatically. Post cheetah nerf Raid rangers didn't have a 10 second moster burn, what we got was a 10 second monster mana drain with mid level DPS that after FR the DPS drops off. In a group you can save everything for that named burn and live with lower DPS on trash, this allows you to not have to wait for discs/aa and aman when the named pops... Allows you to make a very decent parse... Well, raids simply don't care about your named parse abilities, you're near OOM just from trash and finally get to the named after 10+ min. Rangers burn is VERY short lived and a lot of our group AA buffs are used because we needed them on trash. Devs did a horrible "fix" on Group rangers but did no actual testing on how it would effect Raid rangers, where roles NEED to be filled. Rangers role on raids is Aus/GG and Cheetah but make sure you click off your own buff or it might kill your group when you don't have mana to heal the healer or yourself.
"we craft strats to favor casters" "I don't get good groups, only Fintank does!" "rangers are broken, fix my class!"
You guys shouldn't be in the top 10 so not sure what the complaint is. In just about any competitive guild you will have 2-3 necromancers, 3-4 wizards, 3-4 rogues and 3-4 berserkers. Your place as far as dps is and should be outside the top 10 or even 15 then no matter how good you are if you have 4 of some of those classes. Unless its a short burn in which you have already admitted you do well at. So really what these rants are going on about is you don't like where you fall relative to mages, monks, beastlords and enchanters. Who all at times were ahead or behind rangers depending on the years or how well played supported they were. Or you honestly expect to sustain right with other top tier dps classes and are hinting at the power of bane parses or dotting up 2-3 mobs for long duration and expect to be competitive with that. I exclude druids and to a lesser extent shaman post nerfs as at some point they will be reeled in.
You clearly don't understand much about the Ranger class and are trolling. I believe I even called out people just like you early on, you're predictable and have incredibly shallow respect for those that know much more than you do. I didn't say nor did anyone else say a single thing any of your straw men non quotes suggest. I nor anyone here claimed events were crafted for casters, you did and only you did. Rangers are a caster class btw. I nor anyone here claimed hey don't get good groups or that Fintank does, you did. I nor anyone here said Rangers are broken and demanded someone to fix the class. I and others laid out the problems with the class, clearly and gave opinions on how it could be resolved. I don't mind you trolling because it's expected, and it's quite easy to put you in your place. You help make the issues revolving around the Ranger more obvious, you make the opposition side look like casual players who never even played the class being discussed. Hey, I don't want to be like you and poke my nose into subjects I don't know very well but if by chance your rangers are are topping parse on raids you might want to have a talk with approx 7 other classes you have there about how much they are holding back your guilds progression. That or learn how to build groups. Of course, that's an "if" your rangers are leading parse.
What are you competing for? Extra AA, Money? Is Pride that precious of a commodity? Who cares who is first. I never understood why first was so important. I think what matters is your guild can accomplish completing all of the raids available. So all you nerds have is bragging rights? Maybe you could have us all sign NDAs. I would be a little more concerned about backing up what I am posting on forums otherwise there isn't an issue.
