Is this going to happen anytime soon? It's already getting a little frustrating primarily relying on lower level shaman spells as our highest dps, with Velious on the horizon for Agnarr and on into the future it looks like we will continue to rely on these old shaman dots.
With the primary focus being making the new live expansion -> bug fixing the newest live expansion I wouldn't expect to see any more DoT changes until 2018 at the earliest.
I’m super curious to see how they end up balancing it, and keeping Necros dots viable. Right now it’s night and day difference if you have a good Necro.
Yea, it would just be nice to know at least. I mean currently from an Agnarr perspective necro's are top tier dps for sure, but going into Velious we get zero to improve our dps while melee all will have avatar up 24/7 and better weapons, wiz's get bane spells etc. And it only continues from there. Basically if update isn't going to happen may be time to consider rerolling sooner rather htan later.
Keep in mind the dot revamp isn't really for Progression servers, it is for live servers where in 1 fight, Necros have to forget/remem 3 spell bars to be 'ok' on DPS. This post would be better placed in the Veterans section. As far as your comment Anon, Necro on Agnaar will only be downhill from here, and your server locks 1 before you would get Critical Dots, which would help you. Right now, in order to be decent DPS, you will need to stack multiple dots, just like they do on Live. Yes, the Dot revamp for Shm/Druid helped them a lot, as did it help Necros, but that was after they broke it, and then had to re-balance it for low end. With Shaman, if I put 2 dots on a mob in PoP after the revamp, (Without subtlety which was GoD) you almost always pulled threat instantly. If they revamp them in the same manner, you will be most likely FD most fights due to threat, and I also wonder what your mana would look like since FD means no meditation buff. Lich is nice, but with the super increased mana costs on the dots Shaman/Druid saw, a revamp to necros could totally break them until they are re-balanced... It could be a OP break, or a 'my class is now useless' break. Be patient and give them time. You don't want them rushing this.
Considering they did every other class over the span of about six months, and then haven't done anything in the last 9 months on it, they aren't exactly rushing.
Well every other class only has like 2-3 DoT lines that could stack inter-line. Of those classes none of them really stacked DoTs to start with inter-line outside of rare root rot scenarios. Necros have like 12 DoT lines and balancing them will make or break the class. It's expected it will take longer than all the others combined. But it would be nice to hear it's in the works.
They hate the fact that necros have to cast 3 sets of dots to maximize DPS. They would like to lower the skill ceiling to only have to cast the newest of each. NEC are just special (since it is their primary DPS) so take longer and more consideration while making the changes.
While I agree with you that they are taking their sweet time, (and I would assume whoever does spells, has probably been working on expansion spells the last few months), the time frame from Breaking Shaman dots to fixing them was 3 months alone, so It has taken much longer from the Start of revamping BST > Druid + Shaman. Source - Lucy Dates for Bane. http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=4095&source=Live
They were having discussions and linking raid parses in the Necro channel on Phinny last night. The consensus was that a Monk doing nothing but auto attacking is putting out 2 times the dps of a necro going full burn mode.
Yeah, the end goal of the revamps are for live, not for class balancing on the TLP's. I do agree they are pretty out of balance right now though.
In my experience, parsing on Zuns in Tacvi, which basically allow for ideal parsing scenario since they are fairly unresistant and don't have any mechanics to interrupt you, I actually can (barely) out-parse melees if i blow literally everything (We're talking: intensity of the resolute, lifeburn, all clickies, all timed AAs, etc) against melees who are NOT using the same cooldowns. They could easily beat me if they also used intensity, though. So this statement comes across as only a slight exaggeration if it was about Phinny. Then again, if you look at a resistant mob like OMM, the above statement is already accurate. I expect it will continue to get worse going forward where it will require even more effort for less returns as expansions go on, without any changes.
your melee arnt 1. bis geared or similar. 2. in a bard/shaman group. 3. trying... not to be rude/mean ect. The assumption that 2x necro dps without burning vs the necro burning isnt accurate, however it isnt that far off. ive said it before and ill say it again, i dont actually mind being behind melee at this point. Its how far behind for the comparable amount of work between swapping thru spells, vs auto attack+ disc+ netflix. this is all usually counterbalanced by melee usually having harder ae's to avoid/ect.. The melee innate aa is the main problem in any sort of "balanced" ( lol ) raid parse. the fights arnt lasting long enough for necros to get their sustained edge yet, and necro burn is well, not really there. back on topic, the necro revamp although intended for higher level live play, needs to be balanced very very carefully for the low levels as well. Necromancers basically have to live with soloing as most groups dont know how to incorporate a necro. So if they break the spells and make their mana cost too much per cast its going to kill any non-near bis geared necro's mana pool even with the upcoming blood magic and eventual deathbloom/blossom. although my opinion on the matter is very very biased, the way i would rework the necro dots would be to consolidate the dot damage in each line, but dont just add the mana costs together, or if you do have someway for having a fairer mana cost to dmg ratio, 1:1 is not a great mana cost to base dmg ratio for necros anyway..)
Every other dot class has had to deal with the same problem. Shamans used to be able to put out a fair amount of dps in groups dotting. Now, between the melee changes and the dot revamp, it isn't worth it at all any more--mobs die too fast and the mana cost is too large to be efficient. Maybe this is why they are taking so long for necros, they are realizing that they can't really consolidate dot lines without making necros even more ineffective in groups (plus, probably, making them fairly boring to play on raids.)
This makes me wonder if necro's need a new mechanic, something that gives them a way of playing in a raid that doesn't translate to super-ridiculous group or solo play. Maybe an aura based on being in a raid with at least 12 other people that is like a super-lich, so higher hp loss, higher mana return and makes lifetaps way stronger (aka the nuke of choice for the raiding necro). Or some better idea. I say this because a soling necro aggro kiting could enjoy a shorter dot rotation as it could allow weaving in of other things and the playstyle lives with space. It is the shorter duration combat that is the issue with the dot revamp. [funny that it is "dot revamp" when it is about debuff slots... shouldn't all debuffs slot-using spells/abilities be a part of this?] Then there is group play, where a necro can be great but many don't appreciate due to the fast kill rate and necros seen as a slow contributor. You can make any class super desirable in a group (give them a high +XP bonus aura), but necros in group play want to do things not just be afk. I'm sure somebody could have a good idea for that...
It's possible they're not trying that hard. Remember, i'm parsing on Zuns in Tacvi. Not exactly the biggest try-hard fights that exist. Not to mention that thats almost an ideal necro fight resist-wise. The only thing that could make it better is if it was a longer fight. For what it's worth, I agree with your analysis on the progression impacts of DoT reform and its necessity. Although, are you really comparing apples to apples if your melees have bards/shamans and you don't? Unless you are specially requesting a spot for parsing purposes, in most cases I don't see a necro getting into those groups since our DPS just can't match up to those other classes currently.
