How long did epics take to solve?

I was looking at old Allahkazam comment archives, under the cleric epic it spans 12 pages long dating back to 2000. The comments were people hearing about epic quests from patch notes or something and helping eachother out with their findings letting everyone know about new cleric npcs and mentions of plasmatic priests. But still comments in 2002 people were still trying to figure the quest out, even during Luclin and it seems like there was a developer posting anonymously giving people hints. I havent read through it all to find out there first commenter that solved it. Does anyone remember if anyone actually completed their epic in Kunark? Seems impossible without a real guide.

They were all solved in Kunark iirc. Possibly some in Velious? (I don't remember if epics came out with Kunark release or were patched in a little later causing some to bleed into SoV). I do remember the various class communities in game and on forums working together to figure it all out. Certainly they were all done by the time Luclin rolled out.

Epics were released in the September 19, 2000 patch. I was a cleric at that time and didn't start mine right away due to the way the Ragefire bottleneck worked (as well as the politics of the Karana server at the time). But, by November when I did mine, full walkthroughs were available. So, I'd estimate most epics were "solved" in roughly a 2-4 week window.

Back then each class had a forum dedicated to it that wasn't a part of Sony. Like Monkly Business, The Safehouse, Druids Grove, Shamans Crucible, Graffes Tower etc. These were basically fan site communities built around a specific Everquest class.

I remember huge threads in the communities I was actively a part of where people were sharing information trying to solve it. You also had top end guilds who were working on them, and some of these guilds the members weren't allowed to share that info because they were trying to be the world/server first to have these epics.

As to how long they took? I can't remember, and the epics had a huge array of difficulty between them. For example rogue was pretty straightforward and easy compared to many others. It was solved pretty early on. I think one of the int casters was the last to be solved.. maybe mage or enchanter. I can't remember for certain though. But it seemed to me that it took months typically for the first epics to make their rounds. And they weren't common until velious. That's when you started seeing everyone (except mages, sks, and maybe a couple others who had real bad bottle necks) then you only saw a few of them around.

I got rogue epic at the end of Kunark. Then finished up shaman epic during velious. And both my characters used epic up into PoP.

Those were the days, and reminds me of why we actually need a brand new game every few years. I mean, in one way I'm gald EQ remains alive so we don't have to forget it, but on the other hand, there's no way to go into the unknown against like those good old days.

Modern MMORPGs don't seem to be doing it right unfortunately, that's why most don't fit the bill.

Rogue and Cleric were some of the first if I remember. completed in October? Bard, Necro, Ranger, Monk, Enchanter, Druid, Shaman, Paladin and Warrior were finished in November - SK (?). I think Wizard was the last one to be completed due to the old drop back then from Fear was from Cazic Thule himself and was a pretty rare drop from him too. Phinigel staff was also a much more challenging farm back then. Yeah, Magician or Wizard were probably the last ones completed.

I am very curious too. How did they find the ground spawnssss

There was 3rd party software even back then that helped people find the ground spawns.

Yeah by SoV launch things were fairly sorted out though not everyone was getting the message, that took a while.

Solve and do were quite different.

Many players were still just reading about their epic 1.0 post PoP. There were a lot more bottlenecks then vs. now and if your class had one of the bottlenecks that was hard to overcome without a decent guild or luck against a permafarmer (or you paid up as applicable) you probably didn't get your 1.0 for some time. It wasn't uncommon to hear about or help someone "finally finish their epic after 6 years".

Then factor in that the 1.0 weren't best in slot after a few expacs, which took the pressure off the quest pieces. On progression we have a high population of knowledgable players, with more raid-capable guilds that form up fast and/or do lots of raiding. There is probably at least 15 guilds on Phinny and Agnarr apiece that would have been considered a top 3 guild back in the day on the original servers.

On both Phinny and Agnarr I have been in casual leveling guilds with people trying to do epic 1.0 in era. A few have succeeded, a few have been frustrated... but they are kind of in the wrong type of guild if they expect to do such things (epics, key quests, etc.) super fast in a competitive environment.

The living in a bubble subset of the masses are too idiotic to solve anything like this on there own. At least without a technical work around or data mining.

Let me try to explain whats at work here:

They are technically clever, but as moronic and dim as a flickering light bulbs all the same.

Its best not to cater to them anymore and make it worse faster. They will get there on there own.

People always need to see there is more to things, life, imagination, variety, aesthetics, discernment ,creative tension and metaphor....so as to give the right side of there brain a work out.

This is not condescension, many peoples minds simply, don't, cant work that way anymore. The Tommy knocker devolution in the bubble ''new'' world is almost complete.

There have always been people like this, heck there needs to be, to make a society work.

What do I mean? Simply this:

They are technically intelligent people, with no discernment whatsoever, that don't really think very much about things, or see what they are looking at.

They only see what there sub cultural points them too, which in turn is being directed and the data received is internally defined as base self interest, even if its not.

Its a forced narrowed perception to accommodate a working view of things that don't jibe with the facts of reality. However this is necessary to believe, as to not violate there cultural taboos and prop up a inconstant belief system.

This is to make them think its moral and defend it to the end and tie it in with there own self image, illogically of course.It avoids any contradictions or unpleasant feelings related to analysis, self or otherwise.

When you have a un-shiftable, perception and next to no artistic discernment, you wont be led down certain logical paths of analysis that would make your belief system collapse under its own wight.

Besides it hurts less not to look too deeply so one dose not. That takes will.

The side effect of this is a massive failure of imagination, and the selective perception stops a certain type of creative thinking and the ability to discern elements of aesthetics.

Artistic thinking, used in the creation of say, a new mmorpg.

Which is why new mmorpgs suck, and remakes of films don't even come within a mile to grasping the point of the original film...and also why no one that likes it notices any differences.

Why when some people with artistic, potential see a classic film, or hear a 80's song, they are like wow, I did not know stuff like that existed, its amazing.

You might say eq is the mmo that could and dose, cause that kind of amazement if handled properly.

Many, cant see, don't know or appreciate there can be anything else. Its really a case of,dose not compute and if you force it its like:

Danger, danger, system overload, data corruption, engaging logistical counter, dependent, error...subroutine, encoded logic is...catastrophic system failure immanent...engaging perceptual override, going online...connecting...Shutting down logistical, 4,7 and 3. Precept 8 system override.

Its part of the natural order of the system of things.

No point in fighting it or protesting it, its a waste of energy. Fish cant fly and birds cant breath water but both are valid and needed. In other words friends, it takes all kinds.

Yet there is a balance. Though, there is really nothing new.

Things just go in cycles, in diminishing circles until they play themselves out, then pop up again in a movement somewhere down the line. Things happen for a reason. I really believe that.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

Ok Mr activist, agent of change, everybody is entitled to there opinion and I respect your right to yours and to be who you are.

Nor is this a hollow platitude for politeness sake. I really do, and I sympathize with you.

As for not understanding not seeing, my point I would not expect you too, but this dose not mean I necessarily judge you negatively as a human being.

I am not being pretentious, I am simply a writer..haha ''sorry could not help that one'' ahem...anyway: I just call it as I see it, straight from the shoulder.

Its opinion, and everybody is entitled to there own. Also to publicly express said opinion within legal reason without the need to defend, or face social or professional stigma.

Well, ideally, that is what should be. That is what is technically and legally true. Though of course not everyone likes this. Nor am I a bit surprised.

I am not on a side, I hold no hostility, I am simply an artistic pragmatist. My opinion is not about transient politics. I am at peace with myself and the world.

There is no one true path though, no universals as I see it. That is childish in my view.

Everything must be in context. Really though ''may god have mercy on your soul'' come now old fellow, you sound like a executioner or a bit of a fanatic.

Lets not get carried away here. Please remember where you are. I was speaking in the context of art and how culture effects games.So that is a bit over the top, in my opinion.

No need to be defensive. People are who they are, I am just against that being pushed on others. Or at least all options should be represented for the sake of free thought. For better art, such as games, films and music.

As for gods, which god my friend? No don't answer that., it was rhetorical and not an attempt to discuss religion.

Good luck to you out there. I mean it, sincerely.

I look at some of the steps in these epics and for the life of me I cant figure out how people found which NPCs to turn certain things into. Especially because back then you lost your quest items, so it wasnt just an easy trial and error to turn into different NPCs. Were people able to data-mine back then to find out these steps? or was it mainly hints from GMs on different boards? I read the text chat as I went through my epic 1.0 and there are very few hints on what to do next during some steps and some NPCs dont say anything when you hail them, to indicate that they are an NPC you need to turn something into for the quest.

I took one look and bailed, lol.

You are correct.
We need to understand back then there were some very chummy relationships between some groups of players and the Devs. The information did get out fairly quickly which leads one to the conclusion there were a lot of "leaks". Heck there were all kinds of shenanigans going on leading to a couple of legit scandals. So no they did not do it the hard way all of the time.
As for the quests themselves the first time I heard of the time spent camping these quests it became clear they were intended for the basement dwellers, the quests were even worse back then remember. As a guy with a life I just passed on them and never had a lot of interest. Which is just a crime.

I saw this, and then saw

and

That one is fun for being doubly wrong where you want "their sub culture" not "there sub cultural".

And then there was the repeated misspelling of does with dose

And once you get through it all I think his entire point was that MMO designers nowadays are basically idiots. However the way he went about it was 2 gigantic posts of mindless drivel where he went in circles without stating any point so he could basically use a bunch of big words with spelling and grammatical errors all over.

My favorite part of it all however was

Someone needs some Billy Madison in their life. Also "an executioner".

Bravo, you corrected the structural and grammatical errors in the forum post.

You know, some creative people actually pay people to do that with dictated texts, but without the rudeness.

Besides the implied and outright insults, you are technically correct, and I could care less.

The reasoning behind the rudeness is more or less understood by me, but you should ask yourself why the hostility at all?

Feeling insecure are we? If so why, and about what?

If its so mindless, why waste your time at all? Why let it bother you? Are you so ocd that you can honestly tell me its just the technical errors?

I think you are reduced to saying you cant understand and criticizing the errors. Yet, I could be mistaken. I am more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Then why the insults and not just corrections? If you could truly not understand, why be upset at all?

Do tell.


On subject:

I think the dungeons and dragons set, once originally introduced to eq would have enjoyed the challenge.

For example: Back when adventure games first came out they took months before the first players saw the endings, like with kings quest 3.

You simply had to use trial and error, save often ,and use you imagination. Consult with other players. Its a puzzle or series of puzzles.

You were encouraged to rp the character and immerse yourself in the setting.

Pretend you were them, and do as they would.

You needed to puzzle it out, ether through the logic or patterned nonsense, of the game world and traits of the main character.

Learning to think in different ways and use your imagination.

People got together and talked it over as with the adventure games I imagine, except for the saving part.

As in the days when you called a hint line instead of googling the answers.

It just took persistence and creativity, not genius for many of such things. Absolute genius would have killed much of the fun and missed the point of the game.

Epics and Breakdown in Communication aug both required a lot of work from a lot of different people and some gentle pushes by the dev team.

There was quite a lot of "How does that make ANY sense".

Why would you as a paladin ask a guy in Fear who was supposed to emote what he was mumbling about, when he wasnt actually mumbling because that script kept breaking?

How is "Telin Darkforest looks at you consideringly and then scribbles something quickly on a small, worn paper. 'You seem powerful enough. Perhaps you can help those who seek to protect nature's peace. Take this note. Deliver it only into the hands of Faelin Bloodbriar. Where you will find her, I cannot say. She is a friend of mine and a wanderer. She has been seen from one end of the lands to the other" in any way pointing you to go kill an orc pawn in gfay until she spawns?

You wouldnt. Its not. These caused headaches.

haha yeah I've done the ranger epic multiple times and still trying to figure out how people got from certain steps to others without a walk-through. Didnt know if there were a lot of answers in old lore I never read or if the Prima official strategy guides had hints in them.