Antonius Bayle Server: Free Transfers to Vox Available

Actually, In AD, it seems like they are willing to stretch their patience a final notch, in the hope for a long term fix for AB.
At least thats is my impression...

How the response would be if they offered a straight server-merge instead, is something Im unsure about. After all, we were happy on AB before the problems started(afaik)...

I don't see many from AD demanding a server-merge atm...

So you didn't understand since the beginning the reason of why a server merge is better, you should read again the thread then.

Hmm, I might have overlooked something, Im sometimes a bit "thick". Why would a server-merge be better than an actual fix? Do we need a rushed "emergency-fix" that badly?

I don't see AB literally dying in a matter of weeks...

I see AB guilds dying very soon, subscriptions are expiring and players aren't renewing them.

It is only a matter of time before Pikeys Ancient Shadow of Fury is formed.

Ok so... some more assumptions but this time about the post I wrote. Let's not set a negative tone here, we're all in it together.
It's not a fact no matter how much "fact" is added to a sentence.. Count how many individuals have posted on this thread and the threads since the problem began in 2015. That's not a majority of the members of AB. It's a qualitative feel that a large group of people feel negative about this. That doesn't make it a majority of players. Maybe that's semantics but let's be correct in assertions.

I play every day in a raid guild on AB. Wave at me, my name's Felrynn, I'm a cleric, I have to heal tanks through the horrific lag and yet, apart from the random warrior sacrifices I choose to make, they usually survive. Week in week out. My house has vanished. It was fixed and replaced in the space of a week. I will never quit the game I love because of some technical issues.

I understand server attrition and the difficulties in recruiting. I recruited for a raid guild on Stromm back from 2003 - 2006 - even when the game was still going strong, WoW and EQ2 broke the flow of traffic so, the problem is different but not unrecognisable to me. Let's not combine issues and miss the point of the server transfer and my post. It is a solution for casual gamers who don't need full groups (hi molo); DGB NEVER said it was the perfect solution or for raiders. The long-term for them is a commitment to Euro server and to fix AB - so, sensible raiding guilds will see through that and note that we have to put-up-with-it but they will deal with it asap. A time frame for milestones would be nice but that, as well, is difficult if the problem isn't known. Which goes to my last note - we either love the game and will preserver or we won't. That's the nature of gaming / online gaming anyway.
Let's face it, the biggest problem is the fact that there are lower numbers of totally new Euro based players joining any server.


Tedious doesn't mean impossible - like I noted; it's difficult but not impossible.
But that's the point I thought I made. Do you think DGB staff would want to play in these conditions too? That they care so little about their game and income that they want people to leave? What kind of commercial strategy is that?? It's because they don't. They're not idiots for the most part (I cannot defend class nerfs other than for SKs )

There's a problem. They're going to take some time to fix it. They're not providing a solution with server transfers for raiding guilds, in my opinion. They want us to stay on the server and if you're strong-willed, you'll get through it, I promise you.

What infuriates most AB players the most it is exactly this: It's not "Guilds on AB that could come to Vox" - it's "a lot of single players that used to be in a guild that have to move every single wood and nail one-by-one, abandoning and deleting their guild only to build it up on Vox again", with the added stress of DBG-approved server move-system (see the posts on an earlier page) and the whole bucket of "you can leave AB for free but to get back you'll need to pay".

I have nothing against Vox as a server apart from it being mostly empty during my play time - but after DBG neglected AB's concerns for more than a year now with only slight improvements (which didnt last long and have since vanished again), I expect them to actually get their sh!te together and don't make matters even worse by forcing players to do DBG's work by playing a semi-server-merger one-toon-at-a-time without DBG needing to lift a finger.

Why, now, are there improvements being "rolled out" over the next few months when problems have been ongoing for at least two years? What happens if these changes don't improve anything or make it worse? Players would have waited several months for nothing, and since merging seems to be off the table for whatever reason, that leaves everyone at a dead end street. All the while Daybreak is happy to take their money on an uncertain future.

Yare yare daze. My first post in this thread vanished without a trace. Shame.

Fine, let's pretend there is a huge pool of strangers that we don't know the opinion of and they may be fine with the situation if that makes you feel better. You can ignore things and pretend they don't exist but that's not a good start for a discussion.

If the game is unplayable, most sane people will quit it, you can be the hardcore that sticks no matter what but I hope you will enjoy the last guild remaining on the server because you won't have a choice.

No, you clearly don't if you think recruiter now and 10 years ago have the same problems.

Sure it's a solution for the 20ish players that play entirely solo. Those people really didn't need a free transfer if they wanted to leave. I'm not sure how good is a solution for 20 players after 10 months of a close to unplayable server.

Well no, everyone has a limit and it's not a matter of love for the game. People play games because they're fun and bring them enjoyment, not because they're married to the game. They may be more reluctant to leave because the characters have a long history but they will if it means spending 10 hours at least per week enduring lag.
Even if you're one of the few that will stay no matter what, I believe you need a guild around to play since you're a raider? And I also believe that making the server viable for a selected few instead of the people currently playing is not a healthy solution for a gaming company.

And it's being amplified a ton by making people leave even faster.

It doesn't matter, game has to be fun or there's no point playing one. There'll be no raids anymore once your key classes or raid leader will have retire and you can explain your point of view as much as you want when it will be too late.. That point works for every guilds on the server.

If they're not offering a solution to the raiding guilds then they're not really offering a valid solution to the server. I'm glad the strong willed will stay after I retire, maybe you guys can make a raiding guild, if you're enough still of course, this I can promise you too.

So... we should probably just agree to disagree - seem to be getting into a negative cycle and no amount of me typing in here to be positive and give this very late admission of a problem and a begin at fixing it a chance is going to change that.
And I don't want to get into a continuum of back and forth. But let me be clear first:

List every single player on the server, please. Then ask them individually if they're prepared to leave or stay and post all of that here.

Please re read:
I understand server attrition and the difficulties in recruiting. I recruited for a raid guild on Stromm back from 2003 - 2006 - even when the game was still going strong, WoW and EQ2 broke the flow of traffic so, the problem is different but not unrecognisable to me.”

I state - DIFFERENT - in the text. Situations can have similar attributes and, understanding from experience and applying to a new situation is what life is all about, isn't it?

The solution is - wait for a fix. Keep waiting. If that's not for you, sorry - we all have different expectations, intentions and limitations, right?
I'm fine with that and if all raiding guilds close on AB and we get merged elsewhere because of this, the pieces will get picked up and I will personally find a way to continue enjoying.

Good for you but I thought we were discussing what's best for the server and it's community? I'm very glad all is great for you. I don't have to list every people on the server, maybe you don't get much feedback but I do.

Arraden, just because a solution is reached, doesn't mean it's the best one. If you ask ANY of the guild leaders on AB, they do not agree with the way things are being handled with regards to Vox. If they weren't being polite they would all say they find it straight out idiotic and disrespectful. Who better to speak for their AB community/guilds than them? A poll is not needed of all players. It's blatantly obvious that the individual Vox server transfer is a horrible solution that doesn't even merit "bandaid fix" status. It's also extremely easy to see why it would seem good on paper to folks not entrenched in the community. If they absolutely had to go the Vox server route, the wisest way to go about it was a straight merge. AB has been an extremely loyal customer base, that has had some of the very best guilds and players game wide for many years. They deserve an AMAZING solution. Not some wink a dink one after all the trouble that has "already" been endured due to unstable server issues. I don't even see how this is good for Daybreaks pockets, which makes it all the more puzzling

Hello Seldom, Let's us not get off to a bad start.
Yes and no on this for me - we pay a subscription yeah, but do we deserve an amazing solution? I mean, we don't deserve anything, it's right to get some recompense, I wouldn't disagree with that.

It's never going to be free subscription - commercially stupid. And, if it were me, I wouldn't announce it while the problem is still occurring.

So I should clarify - I never in any post said it was the best one. In fact, I said that it wasn't a solution for raid guilds at all, in my opinion.

DGB are fixing - that's there solution. Fix the problem they created. They're doing it slowly and all the butt-hurt that everyone has over Vox and "merge with Rathe" is misdirection, to me.

What's best for everyone - a swift fixed to a server before the next expansion and the summer lull ends. So let's hope for that.

No it's not needed - I should have used #sarcasm to give some emotive context when I suggested that, apologies.
Yes, guilds to speak on the community, what I disagree with touting majority rules as if someone has actually conducted some research. I can talk to my guild leader - I'm yet to see a full discussion of all members of our guild. (It's not actually needed). And the anger is palpable in guild chat. The point I'm making is - yes who better to speak on the behalf of the community, and to review the forum posts, but the suggestion that the opinion of a guild leader or leadership team, or the anger in guild chat, or the posts on here equate into everyone wanting a server merge or being annoyed at the Vox suggestion. That doesn't work and it's bad research science. I'm sure we can all agree on that. Facts aren't facts if they're assumptions.


Look, again, continuum of negativity is redundant. Vent if you want. Nothing is final. Why are we acting like we've been given an ultimatum with a gun to our heads when we haven't.
Vox insn't the solution they never said it was. Give them a chance to solve it now they've acknowledge it.

Arraden, if you believe loyal customers don't "deserve" an amazing solution to a problem that has "already" lingered far too long then we're already off to semi bad start. It's not about free subscriptions nor did I even mention that. It's about the long established history of AB being one of the most successful and dedicated servers in EQ history. The server and community deserves to be kept together on a stable server with the folks that have similar play times and long established bonds. They've already shown extreme loyalty and payed subscriptions with the server being more than a little shaky for a long duration. It is more than deserved IMO technically, it's been earned. Daybreak obviously hasn't been able to fix the AB issues and would have a long time ago if it was easy solution. Why devote more staff time to this long term when the server could just be closed and a merge done? Vox, Rathe, Bert, I doubt AB would care as long as it's not ten minute zones, crashes and other shenenigans. Weak populated/mediocre servers with small established Euro populations just make the most sense though. Best immediate impact win win scenario for the customers/communities and Daybreak(unless they can't merge a Euro with American server or some other unknown variable?). I do respect your love for the game though FYI and saying you'd enjoy playing regardless. Just realize breaking up one of the best communities isn't good for that game in any stretch of imagination

The "amazing solution" we Europeans deserve is a stable and functional server with a ping equal to what the Americans are getting on US-servers. Fixing AB will get us that. A server-merge will not.

I am willing show patience here, because the fix will obviously take time. Not everything can be fixed instantly, that is just how software development is, things takes time. Not accepting that it will take time, will only leave us with "lesser solutions".

But I would also expect DBG to do something to repair the damage that has been done to the community with their slow reaction*. Free transfers to AB from all other(normal) servers when the fix is in place, will give us that(hopefully).

*I don't know if their reaction actually was that slow, they might have been working on a fix from day one(I doubt it though). But the way they kept quiet about it for so long, made the AB community lose faith in AB's future, and thats what made the real damage. I was probably not the only one who thought DBG was "unofficially" abandoning AB.

Exactly this. If this was about "community" then a merge would keep the core community intact.This current offer of one way ticket to Vox on a character by character basis, while hoping and praying DBG does something in the near future to actually"fix" AB (something that they have frankly failed to do for the last 9 months)...well it seems like a joke, and a bad one at that.

We may never know the whole "why" of this situation, especially when taking into consideration how long it has taken thus far without any solution. But I have a feeling it boils down to contracts and/or $$$, with us the paying customer getting the shaft while they (and we) wait for those contracts to either end or close enough to the end that the buyout becomes palatable to TPTB. Or maybe they did something to cut costs 9 months ago that made the situation worse...who knows.All I know is something happened on their end that should've been taken care well before now, yet that has been impeded by something more than the time it takes to build a new or repair the existing server.

LOL....ask your Euro friends who, over the years,have played on the Zek servers, FV, any of the specialty and/or progression servers and have them answer honestly about whether ping made any real,discernible difference in their gameplay (whether group or raid). I bet the vast majority say no, it didn't. Dozens of my Euro guildies had no issues for years raiding 6 days a week, 4 hours a day, in full raids on Bertox. Conversely, I had no problems in either group play or raid play on AB wrecking parses and taking names with 200 plus ping these past several years. The only thing that has made the game unbearable these last several months has been this server instability.

Yes, you deserve equal on a euro based server with moderate to low ping; But what has DGB done since taking over that makes you think, especially in light of how long it has taken with this very issue, that makes you think they can deliver a fixed AB server? Are they even truly committed to it? They cant even do a standard update these days without breaking two or three things in the process.

A server-merge is "better" only for the short term, and only as a temporary(!) workaround.
But they stated that a server MERGE is not going to happen, because they want an european server.
And i agree with that, honestly.
As a Euro player, i want what Jumbur said:
A server with low ping, in the EU (yes, not the UK either), submitted to EU regulations and serving as a "natural" center for any european player - past, present and future.
As was said above, AB was and is the "natural" choice for any player from the EU that might "just be checking out " the game.
Even if that happens rarely these days, it does happen and keeps all our guilds alive, whether these be SoD, Pikeys, RF, AD or even BYU.

I know that People are frustrated - i am just as much as the next guy.
I am so NOT happy about the situation.
On the other hand though, even with the "bad apples", i value the AB community (ofc some more than others, no question).
For that reason alone, individual character-based moves are a BIG no-no to me.

People will cancel subs over this - or have already, many of us are only paying for one or two accounts out of many we had before.
Guilds suffer, i know.
Summer's here AND problems compound any retention issue individual guilds might have.
Raiding - what MANY only log on for - IS barely possible now, that people KNOW what they have to be doing.
(but it's also kind of cool and satisfying to see what a bunch of people can do even without communication, if they work long enough together, and see people beating one EoK event anfter the other on "zero visibility flights"!)
I cannot really imagine how the learning of next expansion's events should work, unless guilds make the use of 3rd party VoIP software mandatory.
And even then the lag and disconnects will cause many issues and continued frustration.

So yes i DO understand why a "server-merge" holds appeal for some.
Even for DB, in a sense, because whole guilds are thinking about NOT buying the next expansion on release and joining the race on an "unfixed" server.
And 4complete guilds - a complete server - NOT buying the expansion on release should wake them up and get them moving for good.


But NO i do not want a server-MERGE.
As in: permanently be moved to / joined with some other server.
I would be willing though, as i said above, to accept - as a temporary workaround - to be moved.
But ONLY if that move includes a) whole accounts and b) a (free!!!) return-ticket AND if i c) suffer no negative sideeffects from that move, like name-changes (or suffer them really only temporarily, i.e. if they're reversed free of charge on the return to AB).

The "offer" that is the topic of this thread is simply unacceptable.
And yes, Jumbur's right:
If what they posted is only anywhere near the truth, a "fix" will take a while.
Can't correct overnight the effects years of building on a bad design have.
Those of us that have ANY experience with IT and projects or even just home-programming should know and acknowledge that.
The only question is:
Without the "server-merge" some (yes, some - it's not ALL) people want (temporary please!!!), what state will be the server and it's community be in once the situation is bearable again?

When you read posts in this forum - one can just start wondering about things .....

• is it not rather naive to think that DBG after 8 month of totally silence and ignoring the problem have found a " solution" ? - which they can implement in just a month without testing or playing on AB

• do non- AB american based players really understand what the problem is on AB ?

• do american people playing on american servers (and commenting here) understand about the time difference between Europe and US ?

• is the so called DBG solution something which look nice on a spreadsheet in DBG headquarter, but as so many other solutions only make sense in the heads of the management ?

zhay

• is there intelligent life on earth?

We have a pm open with a community representative (who has left I believe) and Ngreth , and the guilds, in general, are willing to move apart of a server merge not individual characters on an account. We wasnt consulted with any options it was just presented to us in the same way that everyone was.

Fact is we cannot move to a new server without a merge, due to logistics and recruitment pools of a dead server at our playtimes. As I already stated in the thread it would be suicide to move singuarly.