Using 3rd Party Software

I have been seeing a lot of posts is discord and other place by many people who are planning to use 3rd party tools to make is easier to box on Angarr. The ones I see most often are multiplicity, Steam and Moonlight streaming, and a few others.

My question would be is this allowed? From the Agnarr announcement we have:

Can we get some kind of official answer on this, I don't want to break rules so it would be good to know beforehand.

Multiplicity and the like are simply KVM software. They don't affect the game in any way other than what a standard keyboard and mouse are able to do and only one input on one computer can happen at any one time. It's the same with things like a nostromo or other keypad device, although those do allow macros to be created for repetitious activities, but then again so do most modern keyboards and mouses. I don't think things like this are what they are referring to by 3rd party software. There is no advantage, only convenience.

As long as you're not broadcasting keystrokes to the other clients or otherwise automating gameplay you should be fine.

They aren't going to give you a clear answer on this one because the true is that, even if they did ban these programs (which still only let you control one computer at a time, they are hardly game breaking.) They have absolutely no way of knowing who is or isn't using the programs. Therefore no way of policing it, and making rules you can't enforce is just bad.

You can't tell, through game play, who is or isn't using these programs, because there really isn't any noticeable difference in game. Accept that someone using mulitplicity or the like is probably going to have a slower response time than someone using a small keypad to control the actions of their second box.

The devs should really go out of their way to chime in on a program that isn't as efficient as just buying a $10 numberpad.

We have been asking for an official answer for years now. Good luck.

As Machen said, we've been asking this for years without any official answer despite.

Personally, I believe that it is purposely vague to allow for broad interpretation of the rule. This allows DBG to cover any and all software that may be unknown or not developed yet under this rule and provide a justification for enforcement.

The official answer is that it's not allowed. If you get caught you'll likely be suspended or banned.

That said, unless you make it obscenely, blatantly obvious, it's unlikely any action will be taken. If even you do make it blatantly obvious, it's still unlikely anything will happen unless people mass report/petition you. DBG just doesn't have the team to enforce these kinds of rules.

By this same interpretation, you could get banned for using ANY 3rd party software. It doesn't even clarify that it has to be software that interacts with the game. Things such as Logitech Gaming Software, or Razer Synapse, or even Microsoft Windows are technically 3rd party software. It certainly sounds ridiculous, which I agree that it is, but that is why people have tried for a long time to get a more detailed response.

Oh I guess that's a fair point. I see where you guys are coming from.

This is a common sense rule and it's stated broadly so they dont have to maintain a list of applications. I don't blame them for making a broad rule either, given the idealogy of the MMO cheater, they would just find applications not listed and use them until they were banned.

Think of the rule as such, it covers any software that will give you an unsupported advantage in game.

There is a post by a dev that debunks this argument and I will find it. And, it basically states you obviously wont be banned for using office, web browsers, driver software, or an operating system - which is a silly argument anyway, because we all know the programs and sites that cheaters use.

We don't provide a specific list of what is and what is not allowed. There are hundreds of third party applications running on gaming machines and it doesn't make sense to maintain one. What's important is we do not support unattended gameplay which means you must be at your PC playing at all times. An investigation by our GMs is on a case by case basis but as someone above mentions it's usually pretty obvious.

That's as specific as we'll be on this topic.

The problem is that there is a whole spectrum of things that don't violate the explicit language of the rule for truebox, and players disagree about where the common sense line is drawn. Is something like Synergy ok? What about remote desktop (it's built into Windows now, so a player could legitimately argue that he is just using Microsoft Windows...) Or, say, an autofire script written in visual basic (as long as you are at the keyboard--again, functionality built in to Windows.) There are players who legitimately want to play within the rules, but aren't sure what the rules are, or where the lines are drawn exactly. And, the lines seem to be constantly shifting, too--in the past two years, m q seems to have gone from being banned to being legal on non-true box servers, as long as you are at the keyboard.

Some players have 18 years invested in their accounts. It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect the company to be crystal clear when it comes to what will get you banned, especially with that kind of history and time investment.

I'd love to see you link that dev post, I haven't seen anything like that.[/quote]

Thanks RadarX, now I dont have to find that post lol!

RadarX,

Is that more accurate? Or did you intend to walk back your commitment to true-box rules?

My statement remains accurate. This server will work identical to Phinigel which has measures in place to prevent boxing you see on other servers..

Gotcha. <3

Stop trying to find a loop hole, its the exact reason why DBG wont support an official list!

"be at your PCs" and "be at each of your PCs"

Each statement should be read the same for everyone. And, while I'll admit that some of the rules are broad, its still clear in the context of the game. My suggestion would be to use 3rd party applications that will give you an in game advantage very carefully, but more importantly respectfully.

In other words, don't stick out like a sore thumb.

I understand the stance that you will not get anymore specific, however I just want to respectfully point out while in many cases it may be pretty obvious, there are many that are not - which is what we have been trying to get clarified for quite some time.

The ones that stand out the most are Remote Desktop and software KVM's such as Synergy or Multiplicity. Users that use these tools are typically NOT playing the game unattended and are directly interacting with the game from a gameplay standpoint in the exact same way that they would if they were connected through a standard physical connection. They are also not technically playing multiple characters from the same PC, even though they may be using a shared mouse/keyboard/screen. However, there has been speculation and heated debate this is still cheating and against the rules. So again, while I understand these would be likely handled on a case-by-case basis by a GM, it would be really helpful to hear from the creator of the rules as to whether or not these particular tools are in fact a violation.

I can't remember the post title. But a ways back when we had a huge thread about this before Phinny opened, devs were pretty clear with expectations.
No unattended gameplay.
No broadcasting keystrokes to multiple characters simultaneously.

So basically, if you want to use software that allows you to move a keyboard and mouse from character to character, you are fine. You just need to actually play your characters, not automate them.

Some people inevitable will chime in about in-game macros and such but the spirit of the policy really should be obvious if you aren't looking to get around it. Play the game - as many characters as you want - as long as you play them and not automate them or replicate them.

Eh, not so much. I think most people understand that software KM's are simply a convenience and don't affect gameplay in any way. OTOH, there are the haters that just gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.