Test Update 04/12/17 - Patch Notes and Discussion

Why would a warrior be using Wade in a raid setting? Do they have a death sentence? I can think of no situation where I would need Wade without resulting in a rez for Triconix.

Um, it's anything but an aggro lock. I stole aggro from my war on my necro and sham just the other day with it up. It really isn't that hard to do.

If you think Wade is more powerful than your 6 AE abilities that I know of, then you clearly are just trying to ruffle feathers or you're just plain ignorant. You have 5 abilities all with recasts of 45 seconds or less. Outside of a 2 minute uptime (an uptime that isn't nearly as controllable as SK abilities), a warrior has literal garbage for AE. We have a 4 mob limit 2k hate Roar and our Stormstrike hit which is around 12k aggro every 42 seconds.

My life would be so much easier with SK-like abilities. They are way more powerful than anything a warrior has for AE and they are easy mode one click ae aggro. Not, put on wade, aggro everything individually before somebody gets killed, and rely on defensive procs going off. What happens outside of Wade for 3 minutes? We have 1 reliable AE aggro tool for those 3 minutes. Meanwhile in 3 minutes you can use an array of abilities multiple times that would total up being hundreds of thousands of more hate than we could every dish out to a group of mobs. DB alone is something like 21k unmodded AE hate every half minute. Explosion of Hate/Pain are also more powerful than Stormstrike. Disgust is also. DD makes our fastest and more reliable hate ability look like child's play.

Nerf Wade and Harmonious all you want. It wouldn't affect my gameplay in the slightest. It would actually be even more EZ-mode if you replace Wade with active aggro on more dependable/reliable timers. I would be clicking less buttons and have more AE aggro on shorter and more on demand recasts. Want to remove passive aggro buffs? Go right a head. I would love to be able to control my AE like you guys. Give me SK-like abilities? I'll steal the one and only raid job you guys have (even though I already do that), make your entire community cry even more than they already do, while flipping you guys the bird for making us Gods.

I'm fully aware of the Paladin short fallings and would be in full support of more AE abilities for them. However, let's not pretend Wade is the end-all be-all for AE aggro. An SK arsenal is way more dominant than a 40% uptime defensive proc buff. They have 1 AE tool that does more aggro per second (DD) as a warrior's main single target disc (Insult) that also lifetaps the mobs that can be casted every 6.5 seconds if spammed. They have 2 AA explosions that roflstomp anything a warrior has in terms of AE aggro. They have Disgust which is fantastic. They have DB which is some crazy stupid amount of hate like 20k every 30.75 seconds.

In the 3 minutes that Wade is down, what exactly is a warrior going to be using to maintain super AE aggro? Exclude Harmonious because everyone and their mother knows it needs to be fixed (and an SK gets it also). We have junk arguably worse than a Paladin. So essentially for over half the time we are in groups, we are terrible AE aggro with essentially one ability every 42 seconds because our other AE ability is a mere 2k aggro every minute with a limit of 4 mobs. It's almost not even worth using and just spamming single aggro stuff down the extTar list.

And let's be honest. Beacon is a pretty darn good ability. You just need more AE abilities to compliment it. As a single ability 14k instant aggro with 7k per tick is a very good ability.

It's not ok to be balancing classes based on raid gear. It's also not ok to reduce paladins further when they are already not good tanks unless you're uber raid geared with 21k AAs. Devs aren't taking any of this into account > I guess all of their playtesters are playing ultra geared toons. This is wrong and you should not be treating your player base this way. Paladins especially have been getting the shaft for years. People have said this and nobody listens.

- Right... they don't want something to be fun to play. They want to nerf it to be unusable unless you have raid gear and 21k AAs.

Yes this is insane. it's the paladins *only method of doing a small- very small burst of DPS. Who on earth came out of their to make this change?

I think this change is insane. The person who approved this must have no idea what it's like to play a paladin- a notoriously weaksauce class.

Seriously what made you absolutely destroy Paladins? Seriously this Change is WAY out of whack. To reduce them that much when they're already one of the weakest classes - almost unplayable without uber gear and AAs. I want an explanation. I think most of the paladins playing EQ right now want to know why you think this is appropriate for a class that isn't OP.

Unless maxed stoicism has changed it, I can't imagine an SK actually channeling Disgust in a situation they'd need it.

Outside of that your counterargument is pretty solid. However with some forethought on Wade use I think some of those counterpoint can be minimized or completely ignored.

As far as using it on raids? Why wouldn't you? The range is small, your positioning controls splash aggro.

It's generally more efficient to have less tanks picking up adds and have maybe 2 or 3 fighting it out with AEs to pick up adds. If the heal team is decent and your clicking your stuff, you aren't getting curbstomped.

As you pickup a clump you position yourself so, that your AE'S aren't hitting the other dude's mobs that he picked up and he does the same. No big deal.

I'm not as upset about this as apparently every other Ranger that's posted, only because our Dicho would not always fire with Scarlet Cheetah running anyway. Our Focused Arrowrain, Anticipated Shots, and during testing discovered Dichotomic as well, often don't get twincasted. Something that's been posted on, had a issue tracker filed, and was barely even looked at by a moderator, and still occurring after EoK release.

See: Anticipated Shots / Focused Arrowrain affected by Scarlet Cheetah Fang?

See: https://dgcissuetracker.com/browse/EQ-956

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm going to miss the 50-66% chance of it happening, but I'm not too upset by it, especially seeing as other classes couldn't twincast their Dichotomic to begin with. Though since we're talking about nerfs and fixing things, maybe looking back at our other physical arrow line spells again to see why they're not twincasting would be nice seeing as you're definitely taking away twin Dicho.

On a positive note, ^this^ is nice.

I can't be the only one who things damage from alliances now being reported is a bad thing can I?

Each alliance is so different this is just going to cause more issues and add another layer of confusing when it comes to balance and tuning. Alliances do different amounts of damage. Have different ways to be triggered. Require different thresholds of a class being present to proc. So any class that shows up to a lesser degree in raids or that don't stack well in groups or that requires 3-4 of their class around instead of say 2 to use it are going to look to be 35-40k dps behind in all alliance settings. And rather then seeing that as an alliance tuning problem its probably going to end up hindering some classes who might see less upgrades or get stagnated while others might see gains in self baseline stuff because they appeared to be behind as a class more so than they were when it was unequal alliance parse damage coming into play at times.

Its the same thing with dicho spells. Wizards had twincast taken away during design because they could easily replicate the factors it took to drop 2 or 4 million damage bombs. Yet somehow zerkers who could do the same thing were allowed to keep their dicho which also could drop 2 million until just this patch, years later.

This is the most amazing thing ever! I had about half a second of thinking "Aww, but the strategic wedging myself in a corner and ceiling" but finished the thought with "is finally gone!" Tried it out, can actually see where I am in relation to the mob and stay there, and *not* end up in East Overshoe, mostly-dead from four thousand interrupted casts. It's lovely, thank you!

I have to admit I am surprised that there has been no anger posts from berserkers about this patch. Almost as if they knew it was coming and was already prepared for something to happen...

Eating 2 FD/AD counters I hope is still considered a bug but the rest who knows. At this point it's hard not to think it's intentional.

Hell, there are druids beating berserkers on dps...

I don't think the 40k DPS is gonna push any class into the "wow, this class needs a nerf badly" category when the top one was in the like 1.3m burn or w/e range and the DMG on it likely wont ever be focusable.

Maybe for sustained, but I doubt they would tune around guilds not recruiting a certain # of the class to ever proc them either

If your class would be nerfed greatly, you would stay quiet ? I lol, of course not, you would be easily crying even more I'm sure on these boards.
Also, tanks have never beaten berserkers, if it happens your berserker are really very bad and need to reroll another class or better erase their character.
But don't rejoice so fast, the EQ wheel is turning, and sooner and later someday the nerf bat will hit your class.

I think there's some merit to being concerned about the # of a given class needed to proc alliances, since they vary pretty significantly from class to class. The problem has existed since EoK launch, but it will be more visible now that they report their damage.

The Mage alliance is likely among the worst in this regard, given 3/4 spells in our raid rotation can't use counters. Depending on where we are in that rotation, it's entirely possible that we don't get in 4 hits per mage (8 between two mages, in addition to the one that casts the alliance) during 18s. When some classes can consistently proc it with three or even two players, I think it's reasonable to have some concerns.

I'm sure there are other classes with similar issues, I'm just most familiar with the Mage alliance.

Your berzerkers must be very bad

Rogues are a random crap shoot since it requires procs we don't control. Have seen it complete in a few seconds with just 2 rogues and also seen it not go off in a whole night with 5. Thanks RNG.

Some classes can proc it with only 2 of their class present without any luck to it. Other classes have to have 3 or 4 of their class present and there still is some luck to it depending on how theirs procs. Don't tell me 2 of one class basically always gaining 40k dps now that its parseable isn't going to have it held against them when tuning comes around when others might go without that 40k in almost all situations because they don't have 4 of their class present often or just have bad luck proc'ing it in time because of how poorly theirs was handled.

One classes alliance being good could very well screw them over when base spells and aa come around with this all showing up in parses now. Verses someone else having a poorly tuned class alliance spell and then having that made up for via base tuning later on. Every class would trade a good alliance that requires multiple of their class around for more base power that requires nothing and is always there but everyone won't get that option based entirely on the luck of the draw with how their alliance shipped. They should be all the same or not be parseable imo considering 40k swings of misunderstood dps is going to cause problems.

Or your druids are doing something wrong with the new dots and dot multipliers...