balance.. where art thou?

The only way someone can make this claim with a straight face is when they are capable of insane burst and want to keep all the benefits that entails but choose to ignore it so they can claim foul in raid duration parses because they think they should win everywhere. So ignore this here but make me equal over here since thats all that matters wink wink.

Sustained classes are constantly nerfed when they gain SOME burst parity because of 'balance'. Yet lately burst classes seem to think they should maintain those gigantic leads in burst while then also being slightly behind or right with sustained classes in duration raid parses.

Burst holds massive advantages in xping, farming, bypassing harder content more easily, bypassing raids or stages more easily, getting various achievements in tasks that ofter quite tasty loot at times and on and on. 75% of this game is group which revolves around burst dps when it comes to dps but lets ignore that and just tune around raid duration, yeah thats balance alright says the classes who can on demand drop 500-1m dps and want more as well as exclusivity to that. Its only fair to balance dps classes around raid durations because there are 8 of those in the expansion that get done once a week so thats what matters ignore some classes doing 20-50k dps in the group game while others can do 100-200k all day long because thats the other 75% of the game but it doesn't count anymore to you or the devs supposedly.

All tanks should need to be highly proactive to fulfill their roles. Rather that be aggro management in order to obtain/hold aggro on multiple mobs, or using discs at adequate times in order to survive. I find it highly hilarious that two of the three tanks have TOO MUCH aggro in many situations and it's become more of a control and lower your overwhelming insane aggro capabilities versus use any type of skill to hold and maintain aggro over dps classes. Raids don't even need more than 3-4 tanks nowadays due to stuff like this. All tanks with intelligence should be against easy mode permanent AE aggro, easy mode large sustainable passive mitigation advantages by equipping a shield etc. Nothing skilled going on there. Also, a good, knowledgable tank class with whatever support shouldn't be able to put out DPS class numbers for 3+ minutes. Just like a good, knowledgable DPS class with support shouldn't be able to out tank a tank(which they obviously come no where close to doing).

And the fact that Battle Leap is an everlasting buff now greatly helps our sustained dps when nothing else is up.

Clerics seem to like pie!

Was there any point to this thread other than showing that EQ turns into Hello Kitty Online when you put raid gear on an SK?

Because I've known this for a decade, it's always been like that, it just gets worse and worse over time as gear becomes more and more inflated.

A class that can tank / heal and DPS will always become overpowered in non-raid zones. This isn't the first time someone shows what a joke the game becomes.

People have suggested making raid items count like bane or pvp damage, only in effect in actual raid zones, but it's never been done.

+1

A tank shouldn't be able to hold aggro on a throng of mobs. That was never how EQ was supposed to be played. AE aggro abilities came into the game very late and were very limited at first.

40 mobs beating on a tank while a silky class or healer is standing next to them, unchallenged, is beyond idíotic.

A tank should only be able to hold aggro on a handful of mob, any more than that and some of those mobs should realize it might be more productive to beat on the silky classes and healers for a while.

And the mechanics for this are in EQ, we had MPG trials with very intelligent mobs, currently mobs are ídiots, especially compared to some other MMO I played recently, where simply maintaining aggro is not a way to an easymode victory and casters have to proactively save their own hide.

I Remember back in classic eq, there actually as a mob agro limit. You could only have agro on 10-15 mobs. Any more, and some lost agro and wondered off.
What if they installed that limit again.
Best way to fix swarming and other stupid stuff.

3.5 minutes is a long time to sustain 350k DPS. Are you just chaining together mighty + brutal + heroic blade with your other buffs while making moderate use of ADPS classes in your group, or are you doing something different and very synergistic?

If you'd care to share a parse I'd love to see it. Not because I doubt what you're saying, just for my own edification.

The aggro limit even exists for mercs. Train your merc tank and they will abandon the fight.

A tank aggro limit would also solve the PL'ing issues some people are dealing with on TLP servers, where one person + alt training the whole zone on themselves with a DS, disrupts a whole zone for everyone else.

This is exactly it. The lack of AI is the sole reason why this stupidity has continued for over a decade. It doesn't take a rocket scientist that the people standing in the back avoiding confrontation should also be attacked.

What's that word for doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results? Oh yeah, insanity.

SK's can swarm <---- shocking
+
Warrior dps insanely high right now, burst and sustained both through the metaphorical roof <--- actually shocking
+
Enchanter takin one for the team in upcoming patch <--- not Drogba's fault
+
monks need love <--- unrelated to thread
=
mage pets need nerfs <--- result of thread

If you had to use one word to describe this unholy and oppressive trend of combination dps classes, what would it be, good sir? <3

It's not my claim its what we have been told by the devs. As for burst/sustained right now balance is screwed. Several classes should be boosted so they're competitive. No thread should be about nerfing anyone they should be about ways to make others better.

While I agree with that in general, the month after an expansion is an exception. It's the time to get new stuff tuned correctly to avoid nerfs later. Not saying any of this fits in that category, but there is a time to discuss adjustments down.

The devs have also stated no one dps class should do everything. Does it make sense to adjust 4-7 other dps classes to do whatever the insane one is doing or just the one outlier? Wasn't manaburn just nerfed for dots back in March because once every 30 minutes with a wizard(s) present a necro could compete in burst fights? So the devs track record says otherwise. Why wasn't everyone else just boosted in sustained instead so that necros once and awhile could be competitive in burst? The only reason burst/sustained is screwed is because they took arguably the strongest melee class and boosted them from every angle. new weapons, new permanent disc, altered disc stacking, aa lines added, endurance regen probably doubled or tripled.

Wizards dicho could potentially do 4 million damage under a ton of mods if it twincasted, the devs removed that super fast. Zerker dicho can twincast and does something like 18 or 36 million damage in two button pushes in 60s with mods and scarlet cheetah and yet remains untouched. Yes boost all the other dps classes to be able to drop that amount of damage instantly and again 60s into a fight.

Susturst

Pretty accurate summary right there.

The Monk love can be addressed pretty easily though.

Step 1: Revert the nerf to Thunderfoot to allow it to proc on all Flying Kick abilities like it did when it was created, instead of the single FK hit.

Step 2: Adjust Monks off the Tank line from the August 2015 melee patch that lumped Monks in with the Tanks at the 66% boost, while Rogues got 74% and Berserkers got 82%.

Step 3: Add a few more hastened lines to discs to bring them closer to the 10 minute mark.

Pretty simple stuff right there.

This is the dumbest thing on this entire post.
You dont have a clue if you think any old tank that gets slapped some good gear on can achieve the same results.

Eh, EQ isn't Touhou. There is nothing in this game that takes extraordinary skill. For that, the reaction window is way too lenient in EQ. That lenient reaction window is needed, even the OP takes his time to hover his mouse over to his skills.

Not forcing everyone to hotbind everything to a keyboard is a good thing, you don't want Starcraft II type of scenarios where players have sub-millisecond reaction time, it would remove almost everyone from the server except 16-year-old kids with the needed reaction time. Skill is not the point of an MMO.




Reaction time slows down considerably once you hit the age of 18 and beyond btw. That's why many of those starcraft II and street fighter champions are ... kids. Don't go into an arcade thinking you can pick a fight with that little 16-year-old kid, he will probably woop your butt if it's a game with a tight reaction window.

Not surprisingly, there were clear age-related differences in processing speed not only
between young children and adults but also among the very young children. These age-
related differences were observed robustly across tasks and conditions. Results from use
of the regression method further support the hypothesis that there are global, age-related
differences in processing speed where, similar to Kail and others (Kail, 1991; Kail and
Park, 1992; Miller and Vernon, 1997), the magnitude of the slowing coefficient decreased
with increasing age.

Several MMO I played with much tighter reaction time than EQ, tend to have many very young players dominating things like PVP ladders. I believe this is strictly due to their age and reaction time.

Even if those MMO have nowhere near the reaction time of a game like Touhou or Starcraft or street fighter, you already start to see the same trend. Those PVP ladders are increasingly dominated by younger players the tighter the reaction window is in the game.

But this is not what EQ is about, the downside of those other MMO is that there is no time to chat, no room for older folks with lower reaction time, no room for AFK breaks, no room for people who don't hotbind everything, etc. It's more about skill in those games, but the community suffers as a result.