Bard Dicho Changes

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Aghinem, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. Brohg Augur

    Heh, someone else in this thread tell you you're bad? No part of that description applies to me.
  2. Mocha Elder

    Yeah, that's a surefire way to establish credibility; tell everyone else how bad you think they are, despite having never played with them.
  3. p2aa Augur

    Don't take seriously what Brohg says when he calls you bad at playing your class.
    Apparently, he's a "expert" in the 9 classes he plays.
    Big lol.
  4. Brohg Augur

    o_O
    What makes you say I'm not an expert in the other seven?
    Mocha likes this.
  5. Mocha Elder

    Well played. =D
  6. MoveFastRZ Bloodsaber

    Class balance is called 'class balance' for a reason: It's not about what a given class can do, it's about what they can do (and how well) in comparison to other classes. Otherwise it would be called 'class what-can-you-do.'

    I don't think people who feel that bards have slid down the totem pole compared to past eras are wrong. It's not like the class is broken, but some slight retuning (a little more burst DPS--not a lot, a couple tweaks to CC abilities to make them more versatile, and so forth) could go a long way without really changing the balance of other classes.

    Frankly, this is the kind of stuff that varies from xpac to xpac, so there's always a chance that it gets better in November. But I think a lot of the reason you're seeing serious upset over these changes is that when you patch in late September something from the previous November, you mess with that sense of looking forward to what good may come from the new content.

    Like I've already said repeatedly: I actually don't care about this nerf. I don't like being my group's mana battery, and I agree with the person who said it's a passive (i.e. boring) addition to the class, anyway. I actually like what happened to bards this xpac because the nerfing of Fade made them more viable pullers on raids than they have been in a long time. I'm just pointing out that people have their reasons for being up in arms.
    Kutsuu and Mocha like this.
  7. Zunnoab Augur

    I'm glad this is being looked into. I took a couple weeks break from the boards to focus on Quarm and avoid whining about this issue too much.

    My single thing to add not knowing what this huge discussion entailed, including the developer response (which I am glad to see has happened at least):
    If you are going to add "powerful" abilities to the game that get stronger with progression, those abilities should actually be powerful and their upgrades from progression should make a difference. I'd say make the first progression rank and the last progression rank perhaps double the magnitude of the middle ranks to particular reward both starting the progression and finishing it, while still making the middle ranks worth it. That's a discussion of the entire TBM design though, so I know that can't be changed and for all I know that's how it already was. The main point is: If an ability is meant to be supposedly powerful it should be, and if an ability has ranks unlocked those ranks should actually mean something and they do if the ability really is powerful. That's where the heal component of this comes in I think. 25, 40, 50, 60, 80k HP (ranks 1-5) or something I think is a moderate not powerful heal, but at least the ranks means something for the HP component then. As to the other components, I don't know. I don't have time or energy to read the huge discussion in retrospect now, but I'm glad the discussion happened.
  8. Thraine Augur

    this change cant come fast enough, trying to DPS as a hybrid with no mana is a serious pain in the toosh
  9. Elyssanda Bardbrain

    Any ETA on WHEN this fix will go in? Really would like to add this back onto my song rotation.
  10. Sancus Augur

    If I had to guess I'd say the 19th. If not the week after that.
  11. Wizdons Augur

    so what i dont understand is why would this song cost end and yet only just match Crescendo line? After all these songs where meant to be super spells?

    I dont think the bonus ADPS will really be that great even after the adjustment.

    End cost will probably still be a bit high requiring meding and or halting the use of the song. If the song needs to be halted and swap to Crescendo you would either have to remem crescendo mid fight or take up another valuble spell gem which for EoK will be very hard to swallow. Considering 7-9 song melodies.
  12. Tevik Augur

    I hope I'm reading him right here, but it says to match the proportions. As in the ratio between the three. So you'll get a bigger bang for your buck with Dicho, due to the cost, but the endurance returned will be roughly 1/10th of the mana returned, and the hp will be roughly double the mana returned.
  13. Wizdons Augur

    Im not a pro at all the silly math that goes on in EQ so just going to go off of what i see and give some fluff bonus.

    Crescendo Mana Return: 856 mana - 45s – 19.02mps

    Dicho
    Dicho new end cost : 5768 with 302 end returned @ rank6
    Dicho Mana Return: 2076mana – 60s – 34.6mps

    Melee 2415 – 12 hits - 483dps

    Spell 8906 – 3 hits – 450dps

    With a 120K mana pool you can cast rk6 ~22 times or for 22min.

    DPS wise again i dont know how the moding and bonus are applied (raw, focusable, critable?) Simply taking the (Damage X Max hits) / 60seconds. I will add in a very generous 3x figure.

    just looking at it casters and pure melee will only see about 500 dps (1500 if just 3x it)

    hybrids could see 1000 dps (3000 if 3x)

    I dont know the real numbers but even with the 3x numbers the ADPS is pretty low for a so called Super ADPS song. DPS wise i still dont think this song is any better than most of the already staple ADPS songs.

    The HEM return is still LOL and only 15mps upgrade over the old Crescendo. in 22 min we are talking 46k Mana retunred. about 1/3 of a mana pool. Endurance at a "joke" 5eps.. (6600end in 22min). The HP part, obviously we wont be healing groups.

    Better than nothing? Yes. Better than Crescendo? Yes Super song? No.
  14. Tevik Augur


    Looks like you're going off the current numbers, right? Not the ones they're claiming they'll change with the next full patch? The song hasn't been adjusted yet. I wasn't speaking to the state of the song at all or the adps associated with it or any of that, I was just saying that the song itself wouldn't "only just match" the crescendo line like you said, the ratio of the returned resources it grants would.

    And for the record, it's most definitely not a super song anymore. Yeah, they claimed dicho spells would be, but apparently they changed their mind. I wish it would be made powerful again, but it looks like their intent is to be slightly less terrible than they made it after the last nerf.
  15. Wizdons Augur

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  16. Ghubuk Augur

    I agree, the endurance cost is still too high for the return.
  17. Tevik Augur

  18. Vdidar Augur

    Look at the positive. It's a song gem that isn't taken up now.
  19. Wizdons Augur

    actually this will still replace Cresendo. its better mana and only have to cast it every 60s rather than every 45. which is going to be huge important come EoK.
  20. Tevik Augur

    My fault, I thought when they said they were increasing it, they would make it at least give more mana than what would be used on a single spell.