Can't log in, says access denied

Discussion in 'Player Support' started by Lilura, Jun 30, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Blart Lorekeeper


    Sorry, that is not a rule about where we can or cannot attain game keys.

    If we are to be banned with no warning for other's ill-gotten items, this makes the entire in-game economy quite risky.
  2. Gilad Journeyman

    It's a legal terminology. Not court, there is a huge distinction. Jail or Bail isn't the case for most legal cases as a heads up.

    I really don't get how you go through all the mental gymnastics to put the blame and guilt automatically on people like myself. I mean sure, you'll claim that now you have "evidence" against me for knowing a fact. That doesn't mean I used that service nor does it mean that I knew about that service until this incident.

    My "beef" is with Daybreak for giving no warning and just banning a huge amount of accounts late on Thursday night before a long holiday weekend. They then proceeded to not give any communication for about 12 hours after the bans went out.

    Add onto this that from what I've gathered here is what happened:

    These codes came to be in Jan/Feb of this year. They were purchased LEGITIMATELY from Daybreak in a foreign market / currency. That person/people then solid, gave out, or whatever those codes (not just expansions, but for anything EQ related from Daybreak) and it looks like Kronos were also purchased in much the same way. This really isn't anything different from how people have apparently gotten discounts for the past 3-4 years for EQ. Now all of the sudden Daybreak just bans all of the accounts that had either any code purchased from this region OR any code used at all. A huge number of accounts were banned and there were a lot of innocents caught up via people who were gifted, traded for, etc.. these codes or whatever it was that got them banned. I'd imagine in most cases people didn't buy these objects from a 3rd party site and instead got caught in the crossfire.

    I can still play EQ and this hasn't impacted me in a major way. I'm not terribly upset at the account losses since it was free from a friend. I'm a bit upset that I transferred my mage (original toon) to one of the accounts and 4 hours after the transfer that account was banned. I'm very upset at the way this is being handled by Daybreak and the massive lack of communication. I'd much rather hear it from the horses mouth then have to scour the internet to figure out what's going on. I'm also fairly upset that it seems to have been done almost at whim considering that they banning reasons changed from the account lock to the ban.

    But hey, if it makes you feel better continue to blame the people caught in the crossfire and automatically assume they're guilty.
  3. Kennebell New Member


    I can't stay quiet anymore, the things that come out of your mouth on this forum amaze me...

    Just like the poster that at some point on this page claims "well it has nothing to do with the law", as if Daybreak games suddenly controls all sides of the financial transaction portion of this relationship. When you enter into a financial arrangement for services rendered, this is a financial covenant and it is very much regulated by relevant laws and agreements with banks and card processors.


    Here is the bottom line, when you buy Everquest you purchase a license to use the software. While the license is subject to daybreak's terms, there are other forces at work, especially if for example you pay in advance for a service rendered, and by actions no reasonable person could predict you are found to be in violation of the terms (such as purchasing a key available from a company with far more established legitimacy like Valve).

    Daybreak can choose to exit the relationship, but they cannot arbitrarily seize the funds for services rendered upon exit of this relationship, regardless of anything contained in their TOS. The TOS does not bind the customers credit card company from taking action on their behalf, nor can they force the customers credit card company to arbitrate. Whether this applies to Kronos or the other, likely not, that exists within the economy of the game and you take your own risks there.

    If someone pays for a year of service, and suddenly the company says 2 months in, we don't want to offer you service anymore because you may have violated portion X of this agreement, you don't just get to keep those proceeds. Ergo filing a dispute with your credit card company is not only an active means of resolution (not passive aggressive), it is the astute thing to do.


    Considering Columbus Nova's parent company (Renova) has significant scrutiny on them from financial regulators due to concerns of money laundering, I can guarantee you your bank will be interested in this activity. Whether it amounts to you simply receiving money back for services rendered that were not delivered, or more serious BSA compliance findings being levied against DBG and their seedy parent company, is something not for this topic.

    I've been with EQ since I got the original box in 1999. I truly hope daybreak surprises us all. I want the game to continue and to grow even if it does have a smaller fan base. We cannot let this ship crash so close to the 20th anniversary! It's like seeing an old friend lose their mind slowly and you don't know whether you should support them, or turn away while they choose to surrender to their madness.
    rotor, Blart and formercustomer like this.
  4. strongbus Augur

    blart there is no rule about where you can or can't get a game key. DBG don't care bout that, this whole banned issue is not bout that. What they do care bout is getting their money for said game key its bout the fact that someone bought a bunch of game keys sold them at a reduced price then did a chargeback. DBG is following that rule. if a charge back happens any items/accounts connected to said chargeback are banned.
    chickendog likes this.
  5. Miss_Jackie Custom Title

    It is not the responsibility of the company to "inform them of rules" when it's simply already in the EULA. Is it their fault players didn't read the EULA? No, it's not. It's the players responsibility to read the EULA, not blindly press the accept button.

    Yes, I do find these mass bannings wrong. However, from a legal stand point, it is the consumers responsibility to read the EULA before continuing. It's like suing a chain saw manufacturer because you used your hands to stop it when it clearly said "Do not stop with hands."
    chickendog likes this.
  6. Blart Lorekeeper

    we don't even know if this is about chargebacks, there's no evidence provided.

    Some are now claiming that if you switched your Steam region to a certain 3rd world country (I think Indonesia), TBM was only $1.50.

    DBG isn't saying anything, but TBM was removed from Steam yesterday, same time as the bans.
    rotor likes this.
  7. Barraind Grumpy Old Bastage

    This kinds reminds me of one of the early McroQwst ban waves.

    "Why did we ban one of our VP's wives accounts, 70% of their guild and a huge chunk of our playerbase?"
    - "uhh, Mcroqwst use?"

    Yeah, that was a fun week, and that's when they had a legitimate staff to handle this kind of fuckup.
    rotor likes this.
  8. Blart Lorekeeper

    Your rant is based on a false premise: that there's something in the EULA or TOS that states we can't buy expansion pack keys from certain sources.

    The truth is that they don't mention anywhere in the TOS or EULA where you can and cannot attain an expansion key.

    Prior to last night, players have been trading them without complaint from SOE or DBG for 16 years. Oftentimes openly in-game, in front of GMs.
  9. Ruven_BB Augur

    This is crazy. The players that purchased keys from a third party got ripped off when the seller did a charge back on the products they purchased.

    Now the vendor instead of removing the products the keys purchased are banning them outright. They are getting double harmed.

    And to the people that are stating folks getting discounted keys, should have known better, that they would be outright banned, that's pretty cold. Its like telling the girl that got that she should have known that wearing a mini skirt was asking for it.

    I haven't had any of my accounts banned, and I am still concerned what this decision will do to the game, how it affects my friends, and what I am going to do going forward. I play to play with my friends, if they are not here, and have no chance of returning, perhaps I can invest my time somewhere else.

    I'm waiting to see how this plays out before I make any final decisions.

    Ruven
    Kennebell likes this.
  10. Kronko Elder

    20$ "GOLD" CHAINS if your skin turns green you might want to stop wearing it though

    [IMG]
    chickendog and Joules_Bianchi like this.
  11. Freki Augur

    then do not buy subscription items, or codes through the ingame economy.... for instance I have only paid plat for items I can GET in game. thus I have no risk other than loosing the plat and/or item if I took a risk in how it was obtained.
  12. Miss_Jackie Custom Title

    Yes, there is.

    10. Cheating
    Maintaining the integrity of the Daybreak Games is extremely important to us. When an end user obtains an unfair advantage by cheating it can ruin the gaming experience for everybody else. You may not disassemble, reverse engineer, or modify any Daybreak Game(s) software in any way. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between the game software and Daybreak’s game servers. You may not develop, share, or use any software, program, macro, or interface that modifies the game play in any way or that gives a user any kind of advantage over other end users, except as expressly authorized by Daybreak. All forms and methods of cheating, including hacks, bots, aimbots, and duping are expressly forbidden.
    The sale or exchange of accounts, Virtual Items, Virtual Currency, Krono and/or in-game currency for real world money or monetary value is prohibited, except when purchased from Daybreak or otherwise expressly permitted by Daybreak in its sole and absolute discretion.
    Daybreak reserves the right to suspend or permanently terminate the account of, and restrict access to the Daybreak Games by, any end user that engages in any form of cheating, or that attempts in any way to disable, circumvent, or tamper with any anti-hacking or anti-cheating components or features of any Daybreak Game(s)."
    chickendog and Freki like this.
  13. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    You're assuming that's what it was. Check the pattern of the exchange rate of the ruble to the dollar over the past year.

    If you can find a way, check the price in rubles that DBG was selling key codes for on Steam.

    From what Riou said, that's what was happening. If DBG never altered their price scheme as the exchange rate changed, then after the fact tried to cancel all those transactions as fraudulent, they would be in for some serious hurt. If that is what is behind some of this.

    Kind of like how euro players were boned for several years paying an average of 20-25 dollars a month for subs due to the exchange rate changing and Sony accepting a flat euro/british pounds value rather than a dynamic exchange rate.

    But krono had to have something to do with it. I know for a fact one of my accounts never had ANY codes used on it from anywhere, but did have krono.

    I understand the chargeback issue (if that is what some of this is). What I don't understand is how they thought it was a good idea to ban thousands of accounts as opposed to having customer service send an email to each customer outlining the problem, the source of fraudulent charges, and what they need to do to get their account into good standing,

    As it is, it is a poor business decision. Let's say someone bought TBM for $10, or plat, or krono from someone. So they saved $21 bucks (tbm was like 31.49 after all access discount), and DBG was boned out of $31 (due to the chargeback) in total.

    First, you have the problem of how many people who buy something for $10 will spend $30, so the actual financial loss is less than #fraudulent codes x $30. Then you take into account how many of those people pay 10-15 a month on a subscription, money on station cash, etc. Toss in the anger people have over it (being called a cheater if they don't feel they are, loss of play time, feeling of being bullied, whatever) and you then get some of those same people cancelling unaffected accounts

    Then you have guilds/friends losing people and then they quit too. You can massage those numbers to look as good or as bad as you want, but it doesn't make much sense regardless, financially.

    Take Microsoft. The way they dealt with bad windows keys was to notify the user of the issue, and give them 30? days to register a valid copy. Easy peasy.

    Or heck, don't send a blanket ban email to everyone. Send a notification that their account is suspended pending an investigation into fraudulent activity, and give them a link to go to in order to enter requisite information needed to get more info, and what people need to do to rectify it. For example, fraudulent TBM standard edition? You need to pay $35 dollars (or $31 or whatever if all access) for a valid copy. Then the player has to decide if it is worth it to take the penalty as a learning experience.

    But banning you, not allowing you any way to contact them except make a new account and submitting a ticket, meaning they are overwhelmed with complaints, and have to manually go through every single one and verify that new account 389464 is really "bob smith's account" is moronic.
    rotor and Barraind like this.
  14. Gilad Journeyman

    The chargeback ban is shaky at best. When the banwave hit there was no email that went out saying you were banned. I submitted a ticket immediately when I tried to log into those two accounts after raids and it was saying I needed a valid subscription. The response I got back was cheating (lol, one of those accounts never left the PoK and the other one had only been on autofollow for dailies before raids). Then I got an email several hours later claiming chargeback. Doesn't that seem odd to you?
    rotor likes this.
  15. Ieaien New Member


    Nowhere in there does it say you cannot go elsewhere to buy a game key. It says something about sale or exchange of accounts, but it does not say anything about key codes.
  16. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome


    For someone who says they knew nothing of the illegitimagy of the origins of this, you sure do know a LOT about it. hehe

    Just sayin'
  17. Blart Lorekeeper


    Trading an expansion key for in-game currency would not be covered by the above rule, nor would buying an expansion key for real world money. Remember that people buy expansion packs from Gamestop, eBay, Best Buy, etc.

    I think it's time to admit Daybreak just banned thousands of players who didn't break a single rule.
  18. Miss_Jackie Custom Title

    It states that you have to buy from Daybreak.

    The sale or exchange of accounts, Virtual Items, Virtual Currency, Krono and/or in-game currency for real world money or monetary value is prohibited, except when purchased from Daybreak or otherwise expressly permitted by Daybreak in its sole and absolute discretion.

    What do you think "virtual items" is? Expansions fall under this.
  19. Ieaien New Member

    Expansions are not virtual items in this context. Virtual items are considered items for use in the game, i.e. gear or other such things.
    Reht likes this.
  20. Gilad Journeyman

    Yes, after two of my accounts were banned and I couldn't find anything from Daybreak I googled and found other sources that I had never visited before. I had a slow day at work and Daybreak wasn't providing updates but other sources were so I got to learn a lot about this today before we were let off earlier for the holiday weekend.

    Isn't it odd how there are completely rational reasons on why someone knows something?

    Honestly though, you're beginning to get under my skin with this crap. I have no reason to defend myself to you and it's beginning to piss me off just restating myself because you're being a troll, dense, or whatever. So I guess in your book with your screwed up logic you win and I'm now officially guilty or whatever you keep thinking I am. But I'm done with this tangent with you.
    rotor likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.