New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

Lol knights. They loose on facts and math, but win at memes.

But still get better vies then warrior do.

Knights get better vies then warrior do.

I believe this was the droid you were looking for:

I haven't looked at this thread in a while, and when I did this is one of the first things I see? Well, time to not look at these forums for a few more months.

You do know warriors still depend on our anguish bp and our epic 2.0 plus tons of passive defensive aggro procs and rune procs to be the best that we can be ?
There is like 2 mobs atm that can round you unless you are still undergeared (anything below ARX gear) ? Healing is everything to tanking and has been since underfoot without a top notch healing team no tank is going to survive any where near where they should in today's game...

For Sojero in his cotf gear -The first half of raids are tested with whatever gear you have usually the end of tier 2 maybe earlier this year they give you fish with tier 1 current basic gear and test the rest with that. So, from that point on if you are under arx gear or half of tier 1 raid gear (and half of visibles from TBM ) you are an under geared tank. Which isn't terrible it just makes farming harder specifically for tank survival since we all are the most gear dependant and knights should be more so than warriors.

And instead of fixing the current problems let's break some more stuff and mess up some more people that made informed educated decisions! Heroic Dexterity has always been more avoidance than Agility=(

Yeah but where is all this huge warrior mitigation advantage. and what about how broken knights ability stacking is right now? I know nobody disagrees its broken, but it still is what it is. heck for all I know its working as intended and will never be changed.

Holy hell made it pretty clear why I mentioned that - because that was all that was left and a situation that healing will never solve, even if you aren't getting rounded today. Really, it is not that difficult to understand.

Actually, that is exactly what you two have been saying and are saying again, that it 'makes up the gap'. Just.. no. As for deceitful, I laugh because there are indeed situations where you cannot use it and situations where you aren't getting your magical 15k from. You're pinning everything on moments in time - be that when you aren't waiting for taps to refresh, when epic + VoD is running, in content that isn't rounding you at a certain gear level, etc, etc - to try make the argument sound good. Reality is big picture, it is not what you want to make it out to be. Again, I've never argued no worth nor that there shouldn't be more of a difference - just the ridiculous idea that they are 'equal' / 'cover the gap'.

1. What tanking job is so lacking that dps shouldn't be discussed?
2. So then I take it you've never experienced a new challenging raid on an undead mob where Paladins were desired over others because of their dps - I certainly have and would hope others have to; it's just the smart thing to do.

Yes, but. So far in all the discussions only mitigation of melee damage is focused on. Alot of damage players take during events is spell damage. Self healing works equally well regardless what type of damage it is, where as warrior supposed mitigation advantage applies only to melee hits. When you look at self healing in this context, you can see its a lot more powerful then most people let on.

Take paladin for example, not only do they have splash ae curing, and spells that cure, they also have an AA to self cure. What does warrior have in place of all this? nothing.

Dicho
Mark
Etc etc

really? add up how much those are suppose to prevent, relative to the self healing and curing (none of that stuff is curing) that a knight can do.

[37193/37193] Mark of the Mage Hunter IX
Classes: WAR/254
Skill: Melee
Target: Self
Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
Focusable: Yes
Casting: 0s
Duration: 3m (30 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
1: Absorb Spell Damage: 25%, Max Per Hit: 10000, Total: 93500
This ability is up like once every 20min or some absurd thing. Watch an HP bar of a tank with 150k hp bounce up and down like a yoyo for 10minutes will there tanking, and then say, wow if only they had something to prevent 93k spell damage every 20minutes. wtf


warr dicho is going to get used up by melee way, way too fast to try have it also be for absorbing spells. Or, i.e. if it absorbed a spell, it would no longer absorb that melee. Which is fine, we can click that once every 5min, but can paladins only heal once every 5min?

Spell damage has not really been balanced based on abilities for tanks for years it is mostly done by making the top of the hatelist avoid certain spells of course this is when tanking specifically. When not tanking you can then count enchanter dot and spell shielding for what they balance it on . Mark , dicho, epic, pain doesn't hurt is almost nothing when compared to self healing would be nice if they built spell reflect into the insult line and made it affect all damage spells with like a 50% chance to work or make it only absorb 25%- 50% of the damage.Warriors are going to be seriously underpowered compared to both knights in spell shielding and dot shielding since we get 0 heroic int/wis on a lot of our gear.

This isn't true.

Yes, its true they may not balance the game around what spell defenses tanks have, since it isn't alot. But self healing doesn't care where the damage came from. Where that is direct healing, lifetaps or so on and so forth, its all the same. And its a huge advantage for knights. Especially because as you said, some events the MT doesn't get the spell/dot whatever, but the rest of the raid still does. If warrior isn't mt, they require others to heal and cure them. Where as paladin can not only take care of themselves, but also others during that time. And then a paladin can still go MT as needed and not be able to cast as much, and then when their mitigation abilities are used up, they can change to another tank, and go back to healing, curing, so on and so forth.

Knights may state they realise this change was overblown, but I don't think they grasp why such a major change of giving warriors alone DP was done in the first place. It takes something massive to offset the power of being part cleric like paladin are, so they gave warriors something massive. Was that done right? maybe, maybe not. As I said before it was contrary to most of the suggestions that were given by warriors, which were along the lines of strengthen current abilites, make them useable more often, etc. Warriors didn't come up with DP. But to now just lop it onto paladins also. wth

Ahh I see nm so the max cap on those is only 45 at 4000 heroic? lol that is a lot.

Well at least I am only borked on one stat Heroic Agility should= shielding Heroic Dexterity should = avoidance. Makes no sense stamina is shielding since that is mitigation and more hps has nothing to do with mitigation.

And I actually did suggest giving DP a boost to mitigation but , making DW the mitigation of what shield tanking was before stances and then boosting shield tanking above that with more avoidance I never dreamed that it would be made as high as it was though.

On Point #2 Vule was along time ago dude let it go.

The paladin mounts are fierce in this thread

With which warrior ability ?

Actually, it does make a sick kind of sense.

Raid tanks all have more than enough stats and abilities to tank any group content with ease, no matter how you gear.

But if you start messing with DB/DI, accuracy of bosses, and class ac returns, you can make shielding more valuable than it is for raid bosses (in conjunction with huge increases in choice based heroic stats, like the type 5s become +10 to all but one and +100 to one stat).

Warriors then go for stamina, which comes with a healthy hit point bonus, the shielding increase on DB damage, and an increase in ac returns such that lower DI rounds are more common.

Knights then go for agility, which comes with higher avoidance that is more valuable on raid adds versus bosses (give raid bosses high accuracy and raid adds/minis lower accuracy, due to how +avoidance works), and more ac to make up ac returns gap.

Requires raid encounters to be tweaked that way though, and class ac returns to be looked at (not necessarily changed).

End result is warriors with a much larger HP advantage, tanking bosses that respond well to shielding and less well to avoidance, knights having an avoidance advantage that disappears on bosses but is valuable enough on adds/minis that you can't ignore it in favor of "being ready to tank a boss", if done correctly would even make knights better on adds (possible due to the huge avoidance increase from 100 to 300).