February 2016 Patch Preview

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Roshen, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. Battleaxe Augur

    Warrior Class Description -
    https://www.everquest.com/classes

    Warriors are the masters of armed combat and defense, taking the point in battles and going head-to-head with the most dangerous creatures of Norrath. Warriors are a melee class with the ability to wear plate armor and wield all types of weapons.

    Warriors build their strength and stamina to unheard-of levels, making them far hardier than any other class. When combined with their heavy armor and excellent defensive skills, warriors are unmatched in their ability to survive the most brutal battles. Warriors train themselves in the skills of combat, mastering the use of all weapons and tactics. Warriors also learn to taunt their opponents, making themselves the focus of all their enemies' attacks, allowing the less-resilient members of their group to remain safe from harm." [BA: emphasis mine]

    Brenlo's post in response to an issue in GoD where in one group mission Warriors (and Enchanter charmed mobs) could win and most groups with a Paladin tanking couldn't:
    "Conor is correct, much of what is asked for by Paladins and SKs is specific to warriors and that will not be changing. Like it or not, warriors are supposed to be and will always be better able to tank than Pallys and SKs."

    The Warrior class description, an acknowledgement by a long term SOE employee that we are intended to be the best tank.

    (If tanks are dying/the content is not trivial for your guild, Warriors give you the best chance of winning)

    Magician Class Description
    "This pet provides protection for its master, along with powerful attacks and special abilities."

    Even if the description on the class selection screen is relied on it only mention the ability to solo. It certainly does not suggest Magician pets should be able to match the Warrior unmatched ability to survive. Besides, SOE took steops to prevent pets from tanking in multiple raid events - stare decisis.

    Tank balance has always been asymmetrical. While Paladin healing and curing might be a one for one substitute for greater Warrior survivability its heal and sre anyone, not self only and no objective value can be placed on that.

    You either chose the narrowly focused parent class or a less capable tank with outside of the tank achetype abilities. Some people liked the doodads (and still tank in group and raid content - they just aren't the preferred raid boss mob tank).

    So there you have it - SoE making assertions, players and guilds relying on them for 14+ years.
  2. Silv Augur

    Basing arguments on developer quotes from 2004 is REALLY convincing.
  3. Battleaxe Augur

    Yes, it is.

    BTW the class descriptions are online today
    https://www.everquest.com/classes
    longstanding practice based on public representations. If you can't place faith in that you can't have any faith in SOE/DBG at all.
  4. Warpeace Augur

    How many times are you going to copy / past that class description statement? It really brings nothing to the current conversation. ATM there is absolutely ZERO that says with the proposed changes Warriors will loose their place on top of the Tanking world. Its all warriors looking at it going OMG!!!! Knights are getting an upgrade and will compete with us for MT duties or put you out of a job.

    Its like waving the EULA in some ones face because it doesn't matter until Daybreak chooses to enforce it. They can also change the rules / game whenever they want.

    The game has three tanking classes, however if one class doesn't show up for raids guess what....your not raiding or you have to go raid old content Knights can tank. How is that healthy for the game?

    You cant say the same if a Druid or Shaman skips the night but loosing to many Clerics can hurt or cripple your ability to raid that evening. You cant say the same if monks, rangers or beasts are not there that night because other classes can fill in for them. Basically you get the idea.
    Silv likes this.
  5. Battleaxe Augur

    I'll copypasta class descriptions as often as necessary. One does not make moonlit promices and break them in the morning.

    Sorry, just because an event requires curing and Paladins aren't there to cure does not mean Warriors and Shadow Knights should be able to cover for them Sir Part Tank/part caster. Just bewcause your raid is llight on healing doesn't meaqn Warriors should ge meqningful heal spells Sir Cleric with a Sword.

    Keeping faith with Warriors who were promised unmatched survivability is healthy for the game. Caving in for classes who choose less tanking and more outside of the tank archetype abilities is NOT healthy for the game.
  6. Dre. Altoholic

    That's not the argument. The situation is: Some Knights (moreso SK's than Paladins) feel entitled to matching Warrior surivability in the most brutal battles. I didn't see that in their class description, but let's put that aside for a moment.

    The "rational" argument against this is: There are things SK/PAL can do that WAR cant, so there should be things WAR can do that SK/PAL can't. I, for one, am entirely open to that applying to raids as well as group and solo content.

    The problem arises when PAL/SK are able to do all things WAR can, while WAR certainly cannot and should not do all the things PAL/SK can. Closing the mitigation gap brings us further toward that scenario (if we aren't there already - which is the testimony of some posters here, though response is mixed)

    And I'd be fine with that scenario (I really would) if I was seeing Dev's compensating effort toward equalizing things from the WAR perspective across the group/raid/solo fronts. A lot of Warriors would not.

    In either case - let's get back to the changes. Not only are we not seeing that effort, but we see the lopsided intent to move Knights closer to Warrior mitigation and share out more of our tools. One of which we don't even have anymore!
  7. shadowgod Augur

    I've thought for years all 3 tanks should be capable of tanking in raids but that's a pipe dream warriors would never accept that. Even if it was better for the game.
  8. Silv Augur

    For some irrational reason, all of the people complaining automatically equate "improvement" with "equal" and think they'll be made irrelevant. We all know that is not going to be the case.

    No, it isn't. Comments 12 years old from someone who doesn't even work on the game anymore has 0 weight on anything in the current game. Now, it's unlikely that the sentiment will ever change but when your only reasoning is based on obsolete comments and the repeated plastering of class descriptions I'm going to say your argument is 99 cent paper towel thin.

    Hmm... where are Illa's sparkle letters when ya need 'em?
    Aurmoon and Sheex like this.
  9. Jaerlyn Augur

    And again - a 5% innate and 30% defensive prof doesn't, in the least, change the War description. Or allow Knights to match them. Repeating the same arguments over and over for years doesn't mean they apply. Because they don't, in this case. Wars want to be the best at tanking - and this wouldn't change that. Not sure why some wars trot out old, irrelevant discussions and descriptions. Oh, and when you give up your spellbook, including your discs, (because, let's face it - that's what discs are) then you can complain about knights getting stuff you feel should only belong to wars.

    Plain and simple. A 5% innate and 30% defensive even when added to their other abilities, will still not allow knights to match wars as a raid MT.

    As for trotting out posts by old devs...



    Not a part tank. Nor a part time tank. a Tank.

    Wars would still be unmatched. Which is why arguments based on class descriptions fail.
  10. Battleaxe Augur

    Not to be nitpicky, but Warriors chose Primary Tank, not one of three hybrid tanks, and certainly not assembled out of spare parts after knights got all the good stuff.

    I might have accepted the addition of the Berserker set of abilities had SOE decided not to create Berserkers. I would expect a followup Phase 2 Melee Upgrade that closed the utility gap a lot since SOE had a pattern of short counting Warriors by a huge amount.

    I told my son about this today. He laughed - sadly at me for falling for SOE/DBG's song and dance.
  11. Warpeace Augur

    Worst case that event becomes a little more difficult but not impossible, Missing Paladins on a raid does not stop your guild from hitting other targets either.

    First Paladins are Knights stop insulting the class like you don't understand Paladin and Shadowknights are both Knights. You know the other Tanks.

    Second That's where the Clerics, Druids and Shaman step up, they are priests and can heal and cure. Shocking I know redundancy in classes so the game doesn't have to stop and adds variety to playing. Unlike your opinion of Tanks, ...no Warriors go play Gems, but whatever.

    There are also other classes with heals and cures the Paladin not showing up did not cripple your guilds ability to raid in your scenario it made it more challenging considering you have clickies and Potions that can be used also.
  12. Jaerlyn Augur



    This. I'm not sure why some Wars don't understand this. These changes won't make knights equal tanks with wars.
    Warpeace and Silv like this.
  13. Battleaxe Augur

    If knights are living and matching the Warrior unmatched ability to suvive on more events then promises have been intentionally broken. I'm certain that knights who campaigned long and hard for Warrior defensive disciplines or abilities that should not have been shared (but were) know this and applaud it.
  14. Dre. Altoholic

    I think the fact that we aren't seeing across-the-board homogenization supports someone at DGC sharing that perspective.
  15. Jaerlyn Augur



    Not to be nitpicky, but nowhere, in any description, is War listed as 'The Primary tank'

    As a matter of fact, 'tank' isn't even listed in the War description. Nor are all those spells wars use.

    Heck, WARS were not even part of the original 'holy trinity' - It was Pal, Clr, Enc. Which later turned into 'Tank, Healer, CC' - which later became 'Tank, Healer, Dps'

    Oh, and if you are looking for EQ's definition of 'Tank' in an official capacity: It's there, in ONE place. A gear designation. Tank means BARD, Pal, SK, War. Sure, let's go with that. Bards need 30% defensive prof as well!
  16. Battleaxe Augur

    I figure that it suits someone/s at DBG to have parity work one direction only. Knights get the superlatives found in the Warrior Class Description and Warriors refuse hybridization letting DBG give us junk and call that being like it or not hybridized.

    When there was an adjustment to th 2H damage bonus SOE wrote - this adjustment will primarily benefit knights. Rangers, Warrior, and other pure melee will continue to out damage them. This is a cost of having a spellbook. The Warrior role as primary tank will continue.

    Further I'm sure that you read about Warriors being the best tank in the Daily Developer Chats, hybrids in the FAQ, parent classes, narrowly focused, (grou) tank parity at the start of DoN (which wouldn't have been mentioned had it already existed).

    tyvm
  17. Jaerlyn Augur



    What promise? No one who has had the authority to do so has -ever- promised that wars will be the ONLY viable raid tank. And no, the war description in no way claims that, either.
  18. Warpeace Augur

    Ask for more Utility, it cant hurt your class. Asking non stop for more agro and better tanking is just panting the class into a corner.
  19. strongbus Augur

    Ever tank class should be able to tank anything. But a war should have the skills/aa/disc so that they are the best pick no matter what. Meaning that if you take the same raid boss and have 1 of each tank type with all aa and same tier gear, that it might only take 1 cleric to keep the war up while it take 2 or 3 to keep the pally/sk going. In other words a mob that might hit a pally/sk for 75k a hit will only hit a war for 35k a hit with all the def aa/disc/skill/etc that the war has over the kights.
  20. Battleaxe Augur

    Warrior don't want more utility. SOE was going to deliver a bunch of utility with the Phase 2 Melee Update and there was no interest. (As a utility gap closer - knights weren't going going to get anything).

    Warriors signed up for unmatched survivability, heavy damage and aggo. Read our class description.