Aggro on raid mobs/burn mobs with no fade

no one is soporting anyone getting nerfed we are saying zerkers can burn just fine with proper tanks, they dont need to stop attacking or any such nonsense. ppl just like to twist others words or spin topics around. does the fade changes effects zerkers ? yes but it effects all dps. does jarring strike sucks , yes. but its not gonna hinder zerkers from burning on a raid

Glad to hear you weren't having any issues. Some others have been.

Obviously a test scenario with a couple "real" tanks and a couple "real" zerkers needs to be setup on test so DBG can have a look see at what's going on. Maybe the zerkers that are not having problems only play at 90% or maybe the zerkers that are having problems just have tanks that barely do the minimum to get their agro because they've been tanking for years of fade and all the dps have been fading agro who knows.

The problem might also be with adps support, would have to look at logs between the different zerkers, their crews, and the tanks that support them. Zerkers definitely took it hard on the agro change with damage bonus

With the kind of changes they made to the tank and dps classes Daybreak should have to start with Veil of Alaris and re-balance all raids up to the current ones.

Starting a fight 90 sec late would solve berserker agro though wouldn't it? The only difference is during those 90 sec they do no damage at all.

Silent casting is just plain daft IMO. By all means add various agro control functions, but a complete cessation of hate generation is from one extreme to the other - much like complete hate wipe via fade was one extreme to the other.

What we need is some viable middle ground.

Berserker aggro is not consistent from event to event. With the same warrior tanking and using the same burn sequence on one event I will have no problem, on the next die 1.5 seconds after the assist is called.

That sounds like something else is going on, and not something with you agro per se. I would almost wonder if it was the war doing a pet and since those are messed up atm, if you were closer it turned on you or something like that.

Yeah, phantom is so broke right now

Agree on this quite a lot. "Balancing" half the dps classes' hate outputs around an ability like SC is poor form.

Prepare for the triumphant resurgence of the Concussion line?

Long ago, agro management was a key part of dpsing...
with no fades for everyone etc. It became easier and easier to a point where noone could steal agro from good tanks anyway unless the mobs had blur etc.
It shouldn't be this easy, finally a change i can agree with. I just wonder why they made it so easy in the last years, is all. Eq that requires brains > Eq that requires none, with everyone just looking at parses.
I would just hope that all classes have the same "problems" with it again, to make it fair.

And finally, to the people who think stopping dps should never happen...i thought you like claiming that Eq requires a lot of skill?

Skill should require action, not inaction. The act of doing nothing is not fun. Waiting for 30 seconds for the tank to build an aggro lead, or turning off attack for 30 seconds after you've caught up to the tank is not a skilled action. You're thinking too much like it's 1999. We have special servers for that.

What you're describing is "sometimes the tank gets lazy", not a mechanics issue.

First, turning off attack and waiting a little bit is not inaction. You're taking an action to back out and probing for the best time to jump back in (having the aggro meter has taken away some of that intuition). You maximize your damage by best judging when to engage and when to back off. That said, backing out should be the last thing to try. There should be tools that when used correctly in conjunction to tank aggro tools, should keep you low enough down. Backing out would be when other bad stuff happens and you need to let a tank get things back under control. It's a tool that should not be dismissed. Skilled players know what tools they have and when best to use each.

And how is backing out for aggro any different than current balance events where you need to let the other mob get back down (more an issue where one is melee focused and other ranged). Or situations where you need to stop dps to prevent a percentage based add until you get the last round under control? The worst kind of inaction is ranged only targets that melee dps turns on autofire for 1k dps and goes to take a bathroom break.

Maybe Zerkers need to start asking Enchanters for Glamorous Visage on raids! I'm sure we'd all love that.

^Also agree with that.

this right here is a tank issue . when you tank, you should allways be as close to the mob your tanking as possible to eliminate things like this automaticly when it happenes for whatever reason. be it memblyurrs or be it rog aggro transfer pets or currently warr pet trasfer is semi broken or FV beeing a terrible npc.. failing at proximidy aggro rules is a mecanic problem regardless if theres some snafu with pet/npc rules

dps should allways be further from the mob then the current tank(max distance if AE ramp). and the tank should allways be as close to the mob as possible. this is a very basic thing everybody should be aware off and if this is what happened that has nothign to do with the new patch at all

Very well put.

What's a zerker? Haven't seen one in a guild raid in a year or more

I'm curious.

If tanks do their max aggro immediately after first contact with a mob and assist is called with adequate time for the tank to do that:

1. How is it possible for anyone to exceed that initial aggro in 1-1/2 second? Are tanks slow in using their big aggro abilities? Are DPSers going all out when assist is called and not waiting for the stratego to order Burn!?

2. How is it possible not to notice your aggro meter showing rapid acceleration towards the top when Warriors pile up a large amount of aggro within seconds? Do people not monitor their aggro meter and decide when its safe to pour it on for a bit as a test and when it is not? Do they just jump in with their eyes closed?

3. While Warriors are expected to obtain and hold aggro....

It's everyone's responsibility to manage their aggro (with the tools, no matter how overpowered or inadequate, DBG provides). A DPSer doesn't do a lot of DPS if they decide they are going to kill themselves at the start of every event.

Forgive me if I think the job is not just pew pew and it's being on the right mob, dishing out the right amount of DPS (which is not always max), and not dying. For DPS to be able to do their job it takes tanks, healers, ADPS, ... and playing within the marked lanes by the DPSers themselves.

Zerker agro management tools are lacking in the first place. We also appear to be the most heavily effected by the change, although I've noticed Rangers are suffering from this as well but their agro was already above most when dpsing. Its far from a level playing field amongst the dps classes.

That aside, the idea of having to back out and stop attacking being a method for dealing with agro management is ridiculous. Its a flaw in logic to say that standing back and doing nothing is a form of action, its a form of conscious decision making but that doesnt make it "action". I can decide to sit on my couch all day and when to get up, but I wouldnt call it "actively sitting".


I'm not complaining about having to manage agro as a dps class, the issue is that Zerkers have to manage much more agro with inferior tools compared to other classes. And I refuse to accept backing out as a viable answer, its a lazy and boring way out of a more complicated problem.