Twisted Legacy's Raiding Proposal - Rotation

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Abracadabra, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. BestReleaseNA Augur

    Although I appreciate much of the positive feedback you've given on these forums. The fact is you wouldn't be good as an unbiased arbitrator. A quick glance at your post history shows your extremely skewed towards non-hardcore raiders. The fact you're in TL doesn't change that considering an overwhelming majority of the guild disagrees with your viewpoints on those subjects. You might be a good representative for Apok or RG but not for TL.
  2. Constellation Augur


    Other than TL who has killed a buffed planar god?
  3. Rhiyannon Augur

    because this affects everyone, including up and coming guilds, not just the current top ones. a lot of guilds including mine haven't bothered to even try, we saw the asshattery and wanted no part of it. we need a chance to work it out, to learn, some of us like myself are new to this type of raiding.
    PoF/PoH/PoS need some sort of agreement as well, they may not be raid target by current standards, but guilds have been blocked from those as well, never mind the rest of the server.
    one of you lot needs to add a few thoughts continegncy, and to those who break it and how to deal with the mage armies/guilds, ther will always be someone out to ruin it for others.
    for the record i think this is completely asinine and will not resolve things, especially after the buffs, the server has been a FFA for too long. since instancing is too hard, time to restore KS into the PnP and enforce that, they have guides now. that will help a lot more over the entire server not just raiding and help slow the attrition.
    MamaBear, Katmandu26 and Barton like this.
  4. -wycca Augur

    This proposal was heavily based upon the one already in use on LJ which was already approved by DBG. In fact, it is a near duplicate, with three tweaks.

    • We do not include PoSky - this has never been a problem on RF in terms of monopolization, and the new difficulty of the raid bosses would seem to make adding it just an exercise in excessive micromanagement. Since there are limited actors who can engage most of the bosses, it should be a simple matter to talk to your fellow guilds and see if you can get an unobstructed window. Or, more likely, you can probably just port up and find it up regularly.
    • At this time, our proposed gate-keeper rules are weaker than Lockjaw's.
    • The only other alteration is that every new guild also adds a new FFA day, albeit with the restriction that you can't compete on the FFA day following your slot's kill. Ragefire has always been more competitive than Lockjaw, and given DBG's past comments in favor of competition, this single alteration was added. The restriction on competing on the day following your scheduled slot's kill, is an attempt to diversify the FFA audience (we felt like scheduling a FFA day when we're locked out may be popular for a few other guilds for example), while preventing some 2-in-a-row scenarios.
    We were not in favor of counter proposals that just flat out guaranteed guilds raid mobs with no competition and extremely long instances where the mobs were just left up. Per DBG's approval of the existing LJ rules and their repeated statements favoring competition, it really just seemed like they wanted people to have a fair shot at seeing some raid content without having to *always* mess with DPS races, poopsocks, etc. It seemed reasonable to expect that you should still expend a modicum of effort in treating these like the classic, competitive, open-zone raid targets that these are.

    You are always capable of negotiating extra time, special arrangements for guilds not contesting you, etc. In fact, Apok, Rosen, and a few other guilds have already negotiated with us - so it is possible, if you are say, facing a 10am Lady Vox on your scheduled spawn, some sort of arrangement or swap with Rosengard, or if we're breathing down your back, a concession such that we let you have extra time. This is also classic behaviors between guilds.

    Regardless, the reasonable, fair, & already-tested Lockjaw rotation rules, approved by DBG, are at the core of the proposal.
    PathToEternity likes this.
  5. BestReleaseNA Augur

    No one, and not for lack of trying. TL has let Apok wipe on Inny and CT now. Lets not forget your guild was still wiping in sky before the buffs.
  6. Steampunk Augur

    There's that strange word in the title that you might not be familiar with: "proposal". One starts with a proposal, then everybody discusses it, makes counter-proposals, tweaks, etc. Eventually a consensus or an impasse is reached. Seems like you went straight from proposal to impasse. Personally, I don't really care. I don't play on Ragefire and what I would be willing to allow to happen to everyone who does would probably get me at least a forum ban. But honestly, was there anything in your response that was not obstructionist?
    Elricvonclief and Rhiyannon like this.
  7. PathToEternity pathtoeternity.pro

    I do try to remain unbiased, but you have a valid point. I've removed that part of the post.
  8. Rhiyannon Augur

    -wycca...

    i find your posts usually reasonable and always well thought out... but the flavour of that one.... smacks of "we own it all, but since they're making us share.. we'll still control it one way or another".

    i doubt that's how you mean to come across since that's not consistant with your normal posting habits.

    but i have to say some of it just grates.
  9. -wycca Augur

    Unfortunately, PoF and PoH trash are not raid spawns anymore, they're group or soloable even. It's impossible to police or rotate this stuff. Anyone can come in and kill them. PoSky, the new, difficult isle bosses (who drop the rare parts for the quest gear), are up 4x a day, are up most of the time since the patch, and have not been monopolized by anyone. Does not seem to be worth the micromanagement.

    The mage armies/guilds - they can kill it or they can't. You can't exclude people honestly because you're upset at how they kill it. Everyone can have a slot who can pass the test and kill the mobs. But, there are tons of potential abuses (anyone from p99 can fill you in on all the stupidity), and yes, there may need to be alterations as they pop up. For now though, the hope is that people can follow the spirit of the rules. Additionally, it may be rather moot here in 40 days or so.

    PS - Sorry for the previous tone if it was off. DBG's interest is financial, which is understandable, but it has never wanted to invest sufficient work to solve the issue (DBG-run rotations or instancing). It instead wants a player solution. Essentially, they want us to do extra work for their own profit because they're unwilling to do it themselves. This, I hope understandably, results in a certain amount of pique at the situation. This probably comes out heavily in my posts.
    Rhiyannon likes this.
  10. Rhiyannon Augur

    that's why added in the restoring of the KS to the PnP, it would allow us to deal with the asshattery, abet in a painful way, that is an issue in the planes.
    Kegwell likes this.
  11. Steampunk Augur

    I can't speak for him, but for myself, would you consider "community". A person might not be in a guild facing the current problem right now, but might someday aspire to such heights. Even if not, is it entirely impossible that even a filthy casual might actually have a worthwhile idea? Of course, if you are utterly opposed to such a thing, I hear DBG has Alan Rickman on speed-dial.
    Rhiyannon likes this.
  12. Machen New Member


    They do not have the staff to support the rest of the PnP. It wasn't removed because they didn't want to support it. It was removed because they don't have the money to hire the GM staff necessary to enforce it.
  13. Rhiyannon Augur

    i know that machen... just like there wouldn't be guides. now we have guides.
  14. Constellation Augur

    For the guilds currently raiding and that have gone against TL - I don't see why this rotation agreement is a bad deal...

    Roshen if you could comment on how many guilds need to agree to this for this to be acceptable. Because everyone can agree that not everyone is going to agree on any said proposal.
    Rhiyannon likes this.
  15. Vaclav Augur


    Indeed - should there be two contrary rotations because there's some that don't like the design of the first it could likely be even worse than no rotation at all.
  16. Lotusfly Elder

    This. So much this.

    I agree with that completely. If they want to enforce rotations then they should be the ones stepping up to do it. It's not on any-one guild to make a spread-sheet, share bosses, or alert the guild next on rotation of spawn timers. I'm not even on Ragefire or have to deal with what ever you guys deal with over there to force "enforced rotations"; but this guy has a completely valid point. To say the least I think he went above and beyond going out of his way to post such generous, thought out rules.

    /two cents.
  17. MaestroM Augur

    I don't care what you do really.

    But this isn't between you guys. This is a system that DBG will enforce against me. You're free to disagree with what I think, but when half of the words in the proposal relate to other guilds not currently raiding entering the rotation, I think it matters quite a bit what guilds not currently facing the problem think.
  18. Grish Augur

    Yeah I strongly disagree with you here. I understand why you say it and believe it but the fact is, they have a lot of extra income right now, or did anyway. Based on their word, you are accurate. But keep in mind, they say what they want and have often gone back on what they say. They are at this point, far from trustworthy.

    Just like the reason they won't instance. I do not believe their answers as far as how difficult or time consuming it would be. I could be wrong, I understand that but fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me 30 times?

    I'm just not buying what they are selling. Both literally and figuratively.
  19. Barton The Mischievous

    Way to many ffa days in the Op's proposal, One free for all after a full rotation would be a lot more fair.
  20. Constellation Augur


    How can I plan for what a guild may or may not do in the future? This is a solution to a problem that my guild is currently facing. I don't need every aspect of the agreement to favor me or my guild. The fact that my guild will be able to engage raid targets without other guilds trying to out DPS us is very favorable deal. But I believe there needs to be some guidelines on it too.