Basically the OP is asking for a nerf to raid gear, why? With the logic used you need to do the same for casual players gear also. So the same penalty would have to apply to group gear also then? You leave out a group geared player can do the very same thing a raid geared player can do in older content. Might not be as effective but its the exact same thing. Group content is tuned to group geared players or so the developers will tell you.
This is always the funniest part of things. Raiders insisting raid gear makes no difference in the group game then crying if it gets nerfed in the group game. You cant have it both ways. The fact is raid gear makes the group game much easier. If the advantage doesnt make a difference a nerf doesnt matter. Fact is raid gear makes it much easier to do group content. Its not just about killing faster its about surviving better. When someone has 3k more ac as a raid monk then I do as a group tank that makes a big difference. Do I expect Daybreak to nerf raid gear? No they wont.. raiders would cry out loud if the group game became harder for them. But it really does show the BS about comments about gear not making a differene.
Anyone can obtain raid gear, provided they develop the skill, game knowledge, build in-game relationships, and apply the time commitment to raid. Equality of opportunity, does not equate to equality of results. This game is like life, some will be better then others, some will put more effort into the game then others, some will be smarter then others. The end result is that some will achieve more then others.
Of course the finest items in the game acquired from the most difficult content in the game make a difference. Do you really expect a three-headed prismatic dragon to drop a plastic spork?: Must be pretty bad if seeing someone ride through the Shire dressed like an elven prince makes you mad. Why, they should have to throw mud on their fancy loot before "decent people" have to look at it. Indeed - a bucket of mud should be kept in the public square just for that purpose. As long as this is a character development game, loot is part of a character's improvement, and there is RvR I'd expect to see me displaying and using my trophy gear. (I'll be certain to admire the nice sword you got as a reward for killing a direwolf near the boarder of the Shire as well.) Thou shalt not look directly at much less tamper with my trophy gear. You bet nerfs would be wrong. Keep in mind that when I want to upgrade that ancient glowing sword I have to go back to the dangers of Dragon Country. The adversaries found near the Shire don't drop such things/I'm not rewarded in full for killing them. Non-raiders are - It's your challenge and your rewards. It's my filler. ("The funniest part" is seeing the disapproving faces of the Sackville-Baggins's as I ride past.)
There you go making too much sense again. Should stop that before it turns into a habit - it may make other forum posters green with envy since that's what this is really about ... right?
I think it is harder and potentially bad financially for Daybreak to make the change to group gear especially tier 1 & 2. First of all group players in many expansions were only just able to max mod2s with extremely careful gear choices. Scaling that gear down on all stats could result in gear that is significantly worse than what they have in the bank or destroyed from previous the expansion. E.g. When I was playing on Vox this is the path my SK went on gear HoT T1 > VoA T1 > HoT T4 > VoA Cultural > VoA T4 In that path I think I sacrificed some focus effects for a small AC/Mod2 gain. With all that gear, if I had VoA cultural on, and went to play in Hot content and was scaled down to HoT Cultural, I would be upset as the HoT T4 set in the bank was better. There is a reason why group gear requires visiting a zone in the new expansion. You want lv85 gear that is in some ways better than HoT T4? Have to buy VoA You want lv90 gear that is in some ways better than VoA T3/T4? Have to buy RoF In some ways they screwed up CotF & TDS with that purchase incentive
So because you don't raid you want raiders to be penalized. That's funny. Gear choices are gear choices. Before I raided I would look up what mobs had the upgrades I wanted and went after them. Putting the shoe on the other foot as you propose and now you see the logic in your proposal? Guess you will ignore it because you only want to burden raiders if they go into older zones but perfectly acceptable for a grouped geared player. This has zero to do with XP nerfs or the silly amount of XP gained from current content. XP nerfs are about the path of least resistance everyone will use to level and AA with the least effort and risk. Many raiders have even complained about the excessive HP / AC mobs have and the amount of time we stand hacking away at the mob to kill it and asked how does that make the group / casual player feel. If you cant tell they didn't take the feedback and use it for anything
Should raiders get to keep their gear for group missions? I have no problem with that as long as raiders like Battleaxe keep out of the conversations about the difficulty of group missions. Whether they have alts or not their main toons fly through the content. And its just funny that when you talk about taking away their raid gear bonuses all of a sudden that stuff matters and when its about group mission difficulty that same raid gear doesn't matter. Can't have it both ways.
Hmm, a reply from you bagging on raiders. Haven't seen one of those before..... Reading this whole thread I don't see anyone saying raid gear doesn't make group gear easier, so that's not really in dispute. Why even say it? What is being debated is by how much. The OP's idea is poor, not feasible and it doesn't even address the problem he's saying it does. Let's leave it at that?
Really surprised this thread has gone as long as it has. Only idea that I can think of worse would be an auto replacement of gear for everyone each month to a standard gear set, then you have to go out and replace what you lost prior to next months deletion. Group content would be tuned to the standard gear set. Ruven
Raid gear does make group content easier. I don't know why anyone would argue differently. It's not something raiders gloat about (albeit, some do). I don't do group content for the gear, aside from the augs. I don't do it for the spells. I do it because I need to get flags to raid (although, this isn't an issue in TDS). I do it because there are achievement rewards at the end that help my character survive raids. I do it because I need to refresh my experience after losing it in raids - both for my level and for the AAs I've burned up DPSing. If I had to grind my way through the older tiers / expansions because someone wants more experience, it would require me to play non-raid content longer. Do I want to play for an additional 20% a week because I can't use my gear? No. I want to rip through that content as quickly as I can so I can find myself back in a raid. Raiders enjoy end game content. I don't know many who spend a lot of time running through HAs / CotF / VoA because they can stomp on everything. I see a lot in the newer zones getting flags and getting augs - most of which they get during the current expansion so they can survive. There's little to no point in going back to farm that item again. I see a lot of non-raiders in the older tiers grinding out experience / loot because it's easier with the latest gear. You want to nerf one gear improvement (TDS raid), yet feel it's a mistake to nerf another set (TDS group)?
It requires applying and testing a little. T1-4 of current dropping to T4 stats of previous expansion works almost universally for group & raid gear, though in the case of VoA to HoT, T1 VoA to T4 HoT results in an upgrade. I think a similar overlap happens HoT to Underfoot as well. Ultimately there doesn't have to be a single universal percentage in every situation. I am not opposed to degrading group gear in any personal way, but one of the reasons TDS sales have been terrible is that the T1 group gear can't be used by lv95 toons. I am fully aware of paths of least resistance - my last 2 mains have been SK, and I have rangers etc too, but I am always mindful of other players and almost always do it in totally deserted zones or instances. If sharing a zone I keep pulls small ~25-30 mobs max. But you suggest this has nothing to do with XP yet I see in another thread for power-levelling an 85 toon. That is suggesting using a current hotzone for mass killing, just as people also do in the grounds as well. For group players it is highly disruptive. What would happen in Shards Landing if they made it a higher level hotzone if there wasn't an exp penalty in place or a way of limiting mass killing by some kind of gear degradation?
This makes absolutely no sense. How would the min level of dropable gear impact sales of an expansion?
Duh, you realize TDS went from lvl 100 - 105??? Normally a 5 level spread for gear to be used. So, how the heck would you even expect a level 95 toon to use TDS expansion gear.... do you even know what your talking about or just throwing random things out here? How is this related to your complaint of raid gear? Random babble to try and misdirect?? I'm sure many casters and Melee classes could still plow through Shards Landing if they wanted to simply because of their class abilities at level 105. But I guess they would make a power level class and get to 100 to sell their power levels there.
SoE screwed up with TDS as they killed the incentive to buy TDS to get gear for lv95 toons. There is also no AA incentive either. However it would make a financial difference how many f2p & silver might buy TDS to use gear with lv100 toons. If the gear degraded to T4 CotF when in CotF zones? They would still use it and be happy about it. The group players most likely would be happier about it than the raiders being reduced to demi-god status, especially if it means the old content would retain decent exp for longer. As posted previously
I will explain it to you with some examples again HoT Max Level 90 with content aimed at 85-90 - T1 Gear lv80 Non-prestige VoA Max Level 95 with content aimed at 90-95 - t1 Gear lv85 Non-prestige RoF Max Level 100 with content aimed at 95-100 - t1 Gear lv90 Non-prestige CotF was in some ways more like underfoot as there wasn't a level increase TDS Max Level 105 with content aimed at 101-105 - t1 Gear lv100 Non-prestige Based upon history having TDS T1 gear lv95 makes sense. If it was 95 usable and gave CotF T2 stats, I am sure there would still be an incentive to use it especially for silver accounts that can't use prestige gear. I know the incentive is there as when returning I have purchased new expansions even though I have been some way off actually experiencing the content. Now you are being rude and non-constructive. You among others asked for why it shouldn't be applied to group. It can be but there are other considerations as I have explained and you are struggling to understand. Certainly a lv100 SK isn't going to be PLing people in Shards without raid gear unless on weak cons.
I see what you did there and now its about Heroic toons. Not everything is meant for FTP or Silver accounts, there is a penalty for not paying full price to play the game. Again you leave out facts your excluding an entire expansion called Call of the Forsaken....it came out between RoF and TDS. Umm flat out no it dosent because the last expansion CofT left off at level 100. TDS gear should start at 100 and run to level 105, your completely excluding an entire expansion!!! The problem with your explaining is your not explaining and trying to twist and turn your argument adding and changing bits and pieces trying to find room to justify penalizing raiders.
