TDS Raid Event 3: Principal Vicarum Nomia - Progression!

Let the backpedalling begin! From:

to:

No, I'm not trying to suggest that. You not only 'tried to suggest', but insisted that we did something shady on most of our kills. And you don't have anything to back that up.

Yes, Piestro called pet tanking legal. And I never denied that we used pets on a couple of events in the past.

Want to ask SOE about DA/Preincarnation?

And quoting personal messages... Are you sure you want everybody to see that one? We've had that conversation, indeed. When you tried to use the pet tanking argument to deflect my point about far more shadier things going on in ROI that I naively tried to report to you, before learning that you not only knew but participated in them yourself. That's your call, heh.

Wrong. We haven't even used pets to tank Somnium 2 for the first kills, until somebody suggested it later in the farm. And it wasn't changed because of us either. People have been using it way before we got there.

Baseless? You have been trying to avoid admitting that ROI DA/Preincs Tita's Ghost, and prohibiting your guild from talking about it. Ok, if that's a 'baseless allegation', then go ahead and deny it. Right here. Please. The world is waiting.

I'm not trying to make your guild look bad. You are making yourself look bad with all your evading and deflecting when the cat is already out of the bag.

P.S:

You can go back to my post about the ranking sites and re-read it. My point is that both EGL (omitting information that doesn't help MS) and Maeryn's page (listing DA/Preinc wins together with legit ones) are flawed and biased.

*Popcorn*

Seems to me they're still riding the "let's do anything we can to make it seem like we're still relevant" train pretty hard. I liked the part where pet tanking was called out and they either lost their **** or all of a sudden cared about getting back on topic.

Can this stupid C-F get locked now? I figured Axxius would've been bogged down with all the new applicants being the #1 guild in the universe beating the event "legit" and all, but... oh, right.

So now every kill and tactic is unlegit unless you happen to have a dev to explicitly state that it's not an exploit? Couple that with full log requirements and you've just killed any attempt at ranking.

After wins, the only thing that really matters is time to kill. Add that in and your guild still wouldn't be the number one that you keep bragging about.

It must be real hard to talk when your guild leader orders you to keep your mouth shut about the central point of the conversation. Guess you will never admit using the exploit because it ruins your 'godly' image. But you won't deny it either because that would be an obvious lie that would hurt your image even more.

Are you going to post childish garbage and report your own posts, hoping that the thread gets locked? Yeah, that should do it.

We have to physically mail Qulas a written transcript of our intended post and get his approval before we are allowed to post in this thread now.

Wanted to post this earlier, but it takes a few days.

I would expect more from an officer of a top tier guild. Happy Holidays, friend.

This is where you fall into same trap. Your listings are of course correct.

The problem with you Axxius is you assign MOTIVE behind why a Bad Decision is Bad.
And then once you see a Bad Motive, you assume that Bad Motive is always there.

EGL should have never removed War. Although they should have moved it to it's own seperate page and outside of that expansion. But because MS came in 7th or 8th, Beimeith must have wanted it go. 1st that logic is stupid, because EGL didn't have a monopoly on info. Every new War kill was grats on this forum. So if Beimeith removed it to hide the fact it was the worst hidden secret ever. 2nd War sat there for so long, there is no way to really tell when people started it. Triton finished what 2nd if memory serves. But how many weeks were you trying it? How many weeks was 5th place trying it? How about 9th? The problem with War rankings is that not every guild cared about it to the same degree because... wait for it... wait for it... it wasn't progression and it was summer.

Still once, Axxius you assigned a motive behind the bad decision you somehow assume that motive is behind every decision. Except that makes NO SENSE at all. None. EGL put the 5 main raids up from Day 1. No 1 offs from Day 1. So there's no way in heck Beimeith knew if not listing 1 Offs would benefit or hurt MS. And considering MS did ghost 2nd, if anything it hurt them in degree (with DA I assume but MS kill was before DA was common knowledge from the 3rd guild)

Now let's look at Maeryn's page. Maeryn's Objective is tell her something she puts it in.
She even changed it to have Fastest Times because you put in it. Different choice of philosphy sure.

Sometimes a bad decision, is just that a Bad Decision, without having to have super secret conspiracy motives.

Actually there was a time that every post regarding war was deleted. Maeryn's thread was the one that finally stuck.

hi /wave

Recap :

We have Qulas accusing Triton of pet tanking most of their wins
We have Triton accusing Qulas and other members of RoI using .
We have guilds using DA/preincarnation procs to win events.

I know the year hasn't quite ended yet, but I'm putting my vote in early for thread of the year.

27. Ancient Dominion - 12/01/2014
28. Infinit / E'ci Public - 12/02/2014
29. Undivided Faith - 12/07/2014
29. Iratus Lepus - 12/07/2014
31. Pandemonium - 12/09/2014

Good idea, the most relevant information would be from the guilds with a December first win for an arbitrary line in the sand. The guilds that have yet to beat Defense of the City might like to know if one of those guilds managed to win with 45, 40 or whatever so when they have that many on at raid time someone will be able to say "well we could farm Tower of Rot with 44 on but since Undivided Faith beat Defense with as few as 41 I think we should go to TDS".

Here are the websites on EGL of guilds without a Defense win ranked by last update:

1. Grey Horizon - Dec 14th, Cuddle Time per DKP, quick look seems to be 8 CotF raids beaten
2. Celestial Navigators - Dec 13th, Xulous Prime down per DKP, link is to forums
3. Imperium Force - Dec 11th, Bayle down, new friends from FA (best guess Final Assault)
4. Darkstar Alliance - Dec 9th, Merry Christmas, Doomscale seems to be only CotF win
5. Citizen (Fippy) - Dec 8th, HI, previous update Deconstruction beaten
6. The Darkwind - Dec 6th, looking for Priests, CotF complete, working on Defense
7. Circle of Legends - Dec 6th, Jacyll and Thex beaten
8. Echoes of Elysium (Fippy) - Dec 4th, CV completed and a sweet clam gif
9. Eternal Sovereign - Nov 28th, Black Friday, Progression and T2 starting Dec 1
10. Phoenix Rises - Nov 25th, Narye finds her twin, previous updates ToRot and Argin-Hiz won
11. Veteran Crew - Nov 24th, Argin-Hiz down, previous update ToRot down
12. Ne Cede Malice - Nov 24th, Argin-Hiz victory
13. Valhallah - Nov 21st, real update coming soon, CotF complete per forums
14. Resolution of Erollisi Marr - Nov 17th, Tower of Rot down
15. Crusaders Valorous - Nov 13th, 12th anniversary, pic from raids coming soon
16. Echoes in Eternity - Nov 10th, As we gear back up for raids, watch for open raids
17. The Faceless Order - Nov 4th, D3 beaten, G3 tomorrow, previous update UF Beast down
18. Insanity - Nov 2nd, Cloeynicole comes out, previous update UF raids beaten
19. Legions of Blackburrow - Oct 29th, re-direct leads to Journey Home victory and a sammich
20. Team Dragon - Oct 27th, Xorbb 1-2 beaten
21. Sacred Fyre - Oct 26th, Doomscale victory
22. The Stone Coven - Oct 13th, Xorbb 1-3 defeated
23. Omani Winter - Sep 25th, Argin-Hiz down
24. Valorguard - Sep 23rd, Argin-Hiz beaten
25. Wreckers - Sep 1st, Xulous Prime defeated
26. Alliance of Hope - Sep 2014, are recruiting, primarily raid RoF, Xulous Prime down
27. Infinite Elysium - Aug 27th, Journey Home victory
28. Pandemonium - Aug 10th, Argin-Hiz down, Defense down per recruitment post on this site
29. Champions of Norrath - July 29th, Thex beaten, active public forums
30. Lunacy Unbound- Jul 28th, Journey Home defeated
31. Final Assault - Jul 11th, Chapterhouse defeated, 6 day old forum post in widget
32. Wind of Tranquility - July 4th, joint raids with Darkwind
33. Symphony of Arms - June 24th, some info about guild, CotF complete per DKP
34. Rest in Peace - April 7th, Velishan victory
35. Heroes - March 16th, Chapterhouse down
36. Mindsets a Threat - March 2014, Bixie defeated, last public post on forums May 2014
37. Kinship Alliance - Feb 2014, concentrating on HoT
38. GRC - Jan 2014, Glimpse won, previous update Doomscale beaten
39. Anthem - Dec 2013, T0-2 RoF wins, last public post on forums Nov 2014
40. Den of Misfits / Legion of Valor - Sept 2013, 6 new T1/T2 RoF wins, last public post May 2014
41. Diligence- May 2013, 3 ToV Dragons down, last public post on forums Feb 2014
42. Cestus Dei / Keepers of the Elements - Oct 2012, last public post on forums April 2014
43. Frayed Knot - "Oct 2011", master of edits, current targets Defense and 9 CotF raids
44. Disciples of the Rising Fire - June 2010, last public post on forums Dec 2013
45. Essence of Shadow - dead-ish link, leads to site with payment due
46. Amichi - dead link
47. Brotherhood of the Spider - dead link
48. Dark Bane - dead link
49. Drachenreiter - dead link
50. Knights of Fury - dead link
51. Knights of Shadowhawk - dead link
52. Norrathian Council of Guilds - dead link
53. Real Faith - dead link
54. The Resolution - dead link
55. Twisted Legion (Fippy) - dead link
56. Valiant Crusaders - dead link

These guilds are vastly more relevant to my concerns, sure some people might want to go check a website to compare genitals but if you're beating TDS raid(s) whatever you are doing is at least reasonably successful. Oh noes, Machin Shin "only" has 4 TDS raids beaten and the duration of Ghost win reflects poorly on the guild, suck it up princess, you're in better shape than 50 or so other raiding guilds.

I know more about guild progress than just about anyone because I take the time to find out as much as I can so I can best choose targets for my guild, my guild has been at least reasonably successful for the 3 years I've been leader, possibly a coincidence. As an added time commitment I now compile that information for the benefit of other guilds since EGL has turned into a punchline more than a tracking site.

While Qulas and Axxius can have their slap fight, it's pretty meaningless, those are two highly successful guilds that will most likely continue to be successful for years to come (RIP Triality) whatever they are doing worked even if that included spam hailing 4 years ago or pet tanking raids which makes a lot of sense when your other option includes Battleaxe.

There are a lot of guilds that aren't highly successful and whether or not they continue to raid (current content) is in serious doubt due to the massive jump in difficulty from 11 CotF raids to PoWar/Defense/Vitio/long Ghost win and the additional jump to Arx2-5/"legit" Ghost. If I think duration of Ghost wins will help those guilds or if Coruth comes up with the great suggestion to include fewest people on a win to provide more data for those guilds I'll post whatever data is provided to me.

When covering a contest reporters generally focus on the finish line.

True there are often human interest stories too: The Back of the Pack - Boston Marathon.
And doubtless articles and books about the vast middle: The Casual Runner. Is it a bias too? You bet it is. Perhaps the worst kind - the glorification of mediocrity. But it is every reporters choice (unless mandated by an editor) on what kind of stories they want to cover.

I posted long ago about designing content so difficult that only 10% of all serious raid guilds can beat them before the next expansion is launched. I've also posted about the importance of catch up/stepping stone zones like PoTime and Solteris which can allow for quicker gearing up for those who've fallen behind.

Finally, I've suggested that Magelo have a filter for group gear only so non-raiders can better enjoy pride of accomplishment in tackling the challenges of their environment.

The problem is player biases often blind us to both those who agree with us at least in part and those who disagree and have a valid point even if we are not swayed to their position as a result.

In the case of this thread the OP did not respect the long existing treatment of raid info being held private by guilds, invited random members to forward logs without authorization, and threatened sanctions if that did not happen. Using Transaction Analysis it was pure Parent -> Child and that's not what our relationship is at all.

Which is why I argue that SOE has the only officials capable of genuine event win recognition while the proper role of tracking sites is to organize what SOE reports.

Random Question: Was Triton's Win without DA Triton's First Win ever? Or did you win with DA in past and just got a good round 5 and beat it?

PS Same Question to ROV

first win ever was without Da. cuz when we have so many ppl dead that we only have ppl Da we tell them to click them off and die faster so we can go again or move on. we dont atempt DAing ourself thru it.

Didn't realize you could attempt the one offs multiple times....

u cant hence why the move on part is there. its a blanket statement. i guess it went over your head

You bolded the wrong part. For Tita's Ghost it's the "or move on" part.

I expected more from the leader of the top guild too. But life is full of disappointments.

Happy Holidays to you as well.