Test Update 08/12/2014 - Pet Changes Round 4

also noticed your warrior is in the top 20-30 range of normal servers with below 10k ac. the same level as our lowest tank in our guild.

it explains where some of your frustration comes from. that person wasn't able to tank raid bosses quite yet in the rotation.

1st I didn't include bst cause between the 3 pet classs bst are a different case in my way of thinking. Bst have 2 ways of moloing. They can tank the mob with a healer merc with the pet just there for extra dps. In which case besides having a pet rune and a pet heal out the spell bar is mostly slows heals to help heal themselfs and damage spells. If they are pet tanking and acting as the healer then they are going have ever pet heal/rune/short term def spell going anyways(I know I do on my baby bst when I pet tank).

As for the pet abilities. I could see using ward all the time if the hit limit was removed.
And as for getting them in aa. When cotf t1 part 1 beta was going on and eld did his aa chat. The necros ask for some spells made into aas and if I remember right he said no as he didn't like doing that.

Your not going to please them anyway you parse. What i seen from these parses is a very very overpowered game for Pet classes. My raid geared ac focused Ranger gets mowed down by even 1 yellow at times with a merc healer on reactive (yeah they will say but i am not a solo class) these same classes will beat me on sustained also and they can also beat me on burst (well necro maybe not, oh that is right rangers have such great buffs and can snare and root there suppose to be less at dps). I would like to see you parse attack buffs one day if you could Daegun i parsed them a few beta's ago i think ranger bufffs added around 30 to 50 dps back then.

You do not understand how Disc work they share timers some even share timers with things you would not think they would.

because they have the ability to solo.

look in turn your not going to win the argument, majority choose those classes because they want to solo/group/raid when they can.

if you keep turning them away its going to turn into a hack and slash game. Not everyone has the time to dedicate the time sync eq asks for in end game.
Ok so what class nerf do you take? get rid of soloing, you lose a ton off the top.

and the current changes gets rid of the group t1 pet classes, not all but mostly necro/mage
Adjustments yes, but not at the expense of terminating players fun.

necros can use utilities to split mobs, mages do not within a time frame.

The real problem is massive adjustments not based on per class adjustments. you can not place the mage in the same group as a necro. pet tanking has to be adjusted based on utility checks aswell.

this is the biggest beef I have with these changes.

the adjustments could have been made differently, given what class you need the most from.
such as tanking, healing and dps..... not nail the coffin before its well thought out.

so far it seems the direction they are going is grouped based changes. Tanking matters first, then supporting classes. most of the changes are to stop the classes from soloing the new expac's

sorry I see down the road not the examples laid out to us. As for the no cc, summoning etc... responses.

broken hand trying my best to type (

forgot to mention, mages that know how to follow the pathing much like necros do, use fade when they can. the mage will fade off the third mob. there are no other utilities to use.

otherwise you bot to make up for the utilities.

this is what the game has forced the pet classes to do in orer to solo.


unless you take the long road.

I know that. What I mean is a war can have all their disc ready to use at any giving time. For example lets say I am aggro kiting. My spell lineup for that has no pet stuff in it at. If I get a add that can't be rooted/snared. my only choose to fight it is to root the mob I was kiting and send in pet and change out spells on the fly to get some pet fighting spells out. A war dose not have to worry bout not having the right disc memmed and having to change out disc on the fly during a fight if something changes in the fight. I will agree the war dose have to worry bout if its up or not.

you brought up a totally new issue the limits on spell bars.

maybe the new direction rids of that? spell aa's wasn't it called?

Soon our windows will look like a small box the rest will be tabs

[quoteI "Numzan, post: 3116351, member: 1155"]Soon our windows will look like a small box the rest will be tabs
[/quote]

Haha I agree, EQ UI nowadays looks like you're flying a spaceship not playing a game.

Effort to keep them alive. That doesn't say effort to keep them alive with another healer in the group actively healing the pet does it?? It means effort to keep the pet alive, whether it's the mage or another healer in the group, merc or real player.

Merc healers shouldn't even be involved in this discussion. It's like saying warriors do too much dps and including a wizard merc into the equation of their class dps, because they can use them. Parsing the mage and pet should be done without a healer. A healer is what allows pets to tank and mages to dps fully, without focusing their time to healing. A mercs will take 50% of my exp and some plat. Mercs are not a second pet, only available to mages, necros and BLs.

I hope that the difference between group and raid EM will be fixed. Getting a raid EM item to a pet class is like a Rogue getting a new dagger. The difference between a rogue with a raid dagger vs group dagger is HUGE. There should be more benefit to having

What needs to happen is that the dervs need to come in and say ok for x type of fights its ok if mage/bst/necro don't help the merc out and in x type of fights they feel we do need to help out. As well as saying we want pets at a baseline using x factors such as with or without pet gear with our without outside buffs.

With such things testing could be done for what the the dervs want. Without it testing is blind.

They're unlikely to do this because it would pigeon hole them anytime they released new content that wasn't tuned *exactly* the same way.

As someone pointed out, a yellow mob in grelleth is also not even remotely close to a yellow mob in argin or rot, so them making broad claims like "class_01 should be able to handle 2 yellow cons" would be shooting themselves in the feet for no reason. Imagine unique/side content like powar or mm/solb anniversary and all the headaches that would ensue.

No amount of data is going to convince people that their pets are better than they should be relative to other players or content, because from what most keep posting, to them pets are currently just adequate for their intended function. The few folks that have said they feel a bit too good have then argued that the declining game means they should stay that way, and at least that argument is one that doesn't ignore the math. The responses of denial, misdirection, accusations of a conspiracy and so on will keep flowing because it's the only avenue left. As opposed to, say, showing data contrary to what the devs outlined: they're insisting all of the original data is wrong, flawed or coming from an unreliable source with a vendetta in the form of an angry mob with torches and pitchforks trying to ruin their role play experience. And to boot,that said data has duped the devs into believing in its legitimacy, despite the fact that they most likely have a lot more tools for analysis than we do.

This leads to the most prevelant suggestion here: "Don't change my pet, change tanks instead!". As if somehow it makes sense to overhaul 13 classes instead of one (large) aspect of 3.

Hopefully just like all the other changes in the last year the devs are ignoring the bulk of the wuah and using their own data mixed with as much legitimate feedback from the community as they can, because for all the idiocy there have been some very good posts by both sides on these threads, too. Said it before and I'll say it again, the world isn't going to end.

Good point. But one thing they could say is this. Should pets be balanced out based on each pet being buffed the same all the time or should they be balanced round what each class can do molo.

Rangers being a terrible, worthless class is a separate issue, one that I don't agree on. Medicare dps, some buffs, and a little CC? Sounds horrible, I feel for ya :/

You obviously never read my (many) posts because I've said time and again to leave the pets alone and bring the Tank Mercs up to where they can actually tank like a pet can tank.
I don't advocate nerfing the pets.
However, it's also time to stop comparing "apples to hammers" and if they are gonna do any adjustments than they need to START the tuning from the right square and go from there.
That's what I was agreeing with.
-R

And as I've said before on the Ranger board - not enough mitigation to justify that huge hit to the DPS.
Rangers need another defensive disc - that works only with a shield equipped.
-Rat (nothing I haven't said before - where it belongs to be said)

I didn't have a ton of time over the last 2 days, today I'll get around to molo/Mage parsing. I expect the Mage earth pet will take more dps for the following reasons: no way to slow unlike other two classes. I expect necro pet with slow and the most powerful spell based intervention will remain the pet requiring the least healing. Mage has aa aegis (bst does not) but does not have slow.

I expect for raw healing requirements molo (best to worst vs singles):

Necro > bst > mage

For raw solo capabilities:

Bst >>>>>> maybe necro can do it (I'll try today) >>> I don't think Mage can.

With group support (another slower) ... Hard to say if necro interventional will overcome more mitigation for earth but I suspect it might on singles. Best has plakts and slightly better mitigation.

What the parser will not catch is the raw hp pool differential - and earth pet has a resounding advantage. What I'm most interested in seeing is how the air pet with stun compares to earth. I suspect with single pulls it will win.

Where the earth pet will have a resounding advantage will be those multiple pull encounters - larger hit point pool and baseline mitigation that scales linearly with each target.


As an aside, having spent time in AH things to consider. A yellow con mob does not translate in difficulty from one zone to the next. Average dps on an afk knight to a actively tanking knight with discs in cooldown went from 7600ish (afk tanking) in EWK to just shy of 9000 dps while using minor abilities and major discs on cooldown. Average incoming dps cycling it all pull after pull intelligently yielded average dps closer to afk baselines in EWK.

AH in reading through developer comments was intended to be hard. Given its intention as such, is this supposed to be our baseline for what you can and can't do?

Max hits are 1-2k higher, baseline attack is higher. You can see it on the pet parses with very high ac. You see it much more dramatically on player characters with diminishing soft cap returns.