Plane of War (maybe or Maybe not)

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Nyni, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. Trajet D'Or Augur

    Undefeated Blade drops among other items
    Mud of the Arena (Mask): AC: 123 HP: 2271

    Kaas Thox drops among other items
    Masque of the Muse (Mask): AC: 123 HP: 2271

    The actual gameplay complaints about Undefeated Blade were why should I bother killing it to get 2 more hStr on my Mask and why do I need this for Hunter. The 2nd complaint was fixed. PoWar is apparently fixing the 1st complaint.

    If people still don't go beat PoWar 2 group content now that the time/effort/whatever vs reward is fixed then feel free to riff about only a handful of people doing challenging content. That people didn't take the time/effort/whatever to kill Undefeated Blade most likely as far more to do with lack of reward than lack of desire for challenging content.
  2. Sinestra Augur

    This all sounds great, but there is something else that becomes a problem. Increasing spawns so more people can participate is great, but it will just bring more people to the zone.

    Increasing the time the zones will be open will also be great, as those who can't get in to get their items in the first few weeks or months will be able to go after the feeding frenzy stops.

    The big problem with the last item is that people end up monopolizing the content so they can sell the items they get instead of people being able to enjoy the content. If content is still locked down all the time because items are worth so much, it will have the exact same problem the Hardcore Heritage had. People will not go in, get what they want, help their friends, and then move on or give away what they don't need, they will just sell it off. If you allow the items to be droppable, the other changes will mean mostly nothing.
  3. Falos Augur

    Out of curiosity how many named mobs are in the works / planned for this zone? Are all of those going to be tuned around 2 groups or will some be tuned as 1 group encounters as well?


    EDIT:

    also longshot to ask this but could you for example tell us what one of the planned named mobs will do (don't have to name the mob) just so we kind of have an idea on what exactly is being put into these encounters to make sure they are geared towards 2 groups.
  4. Axxius Augur

    IMO adding raid-quality loot to the group game permanently (i.e. not a limited time thing like SolB) is a very bad idea. Each one of those items will amount to epic 3.0 for groupers. It will be by far the best in slot, obsoleting all other items for that slot that you create for group content in the near future (until mudflation of regular group gear overtakes CotF raid gear). Since it's not a limited time thing, it will be eventually obtained by 'everybody and their brother'.

    Making it tradeable will only make things worse by encouraging perma-camping and monopolizing of those npc's by raid geared multi-boxers looking to make profit. You will create a whole lot of drama.
    Marton and Falos like this.
  5. fransisco Augur

    Two group mobs present an issue that the Dev's don't seem to realize.

    Clearing the area/ph's is a single group activity. So when a 2 group named spawns - the 1st group needs to recruit a 2nd group to help kill the named.
    There is no reason for both groups to be killing there, because 2 groups cannot cooperate or share experience. This makes it inherently awkward and difficult to kill the named, because when your camping a named, you need to have a 2nd group available to come and kill the named if/when it spawns. But not before.

    Plus the first group put in all the work of clearing and spawning the named, but now must share a chance at loot with a 2nd group that is putting in 5-10 minutes of work.
    beryon and Ratbo Peep like this.
  6. Axxius Augur

    Just like in CRB, these mobs will not be killed by 2 groups except during the first week or two after release, and then on major holidays. Most of the time they will be killed by 1 group of raid geared players. And if their loot is sellable, then the groupers will have an icicle's chance in hell of getting it.
    Leerah and Sinestra like this.
  7. Phrett Augur

    Didn't Dzarn just say that the named drop loot would Nodrop tagged, but the trash mobs would have a small chance of dropping those rare items which would be droppable? Meaning the groupers could farm trash long enough and get the item they wanted... and sell the ones they didn't want too? Maybe I misread.
    Obiziana likes this.
  8. Sinestra Augur

    You mean like what happened during the HH days? Except, what I said still happened.
  9. fransisco Augur

    As well, its kinda hard to simply make a deal with another group in the zone that you'll help each other kill named. Because if another group comes to help you, they are giving up their camp and might not get it back.
  10. Axxius Augur

    People camping the named that drop the no-trade version of the item will sell loot rights. Just like it happened in SolB and MM.

    And all the good camps with a lot of conveniently pullable trash will be perma-camped by multi-box crews farming the tradeable version of the item.
  11. Symbius Augur

    Requiring 2 groups to kill a named is all well and good, but requiring 2 groups to sit there twiddling their thumbs as they try and spawn the named is absurd.

    Why not just make normal named in the zone have an item drop rarely that can be turned in to take the challenge of these harder named? That way a group can camp named and get the item and then get together with a larger force to take the named out.

    It's just silly to have a group sit there and camp these tougher named and then have to call in other forces when it spawns or have the entire force sit around getting raid xp in the hopes of poping these.
  12. Axxius Augur

    And also this: you do all the work spawning the named, and then have to make a deal with another group to kill it, who will want the same claim to the loot even though they are only here for the kill.
  13. Trajet D'Or Augur

    With some simple logistics (hint, campfires) and some friends and/or guildmates willing to spend 5-10 minutes to help you get an item on the assumption you will later spend 5-10 minutes to help them or simply because they are being *gasp* nice a 2 group named is a pretty simple proposition.

    Some people will have trouble getting the rewards from 2 group content, same as a number of people don't have easy access to gear from 9 group content. Not making raids or 2 group content because some people don't want to gather up a large enough force to defeat that content would be a pretty silly decision.
  14. fransisco Augur

    This a an excellent idea
  15. wingz-83 Augur

    Couple of things I didn't see (maybe missed.)

    1) Do you have to own COTF to go into this zone?

    2) Is there a min level to get into this zone like other zones for PoP?
    Forcallen likes this.
  16. Feradach Augur

    I like the concept. A lot. I'd suggest considering a reversal of which items are droppable though. The basepop item should be nodrop and the version from the nameds should be tradeable. This would avoid people monopolizing areas of the zone non-stop in order to farm the ultra-rare items from basepop mobs for resale purposes. Having the multi-group named with the droppable version would also likely encourage the cooperation needed for the kill due to the unique nature of the item itself.
  17. Axxius Augur

    I like the idea, but it will require additional protection from abuse. If they simply make an NPC that spawns the boss on demand (turn in) then guilds will abuse it by having people farm the turn-in items in bulk, and then the raid comes and chain-spawns and kills that boss. That would eliminate all challenge from the encounter. Raid quality drops in bulk for free. SOE can make the turn in NPC despawn and respawn after X time, but that would create issues for those who want to kill him the intended way. Cue in camp drama Ragefire style.
  18. Axxius Augur

    Instead of monopolizing camps with low chance of dropping the tradeable item, they will monopolize the named that drops it regularly. This will guarantee that those named will be perma-camped by raid geared boxers 24/7 (as opposed to only when they can find a buyer for the right to loot).

    It will not encourage any cooperation, only a lot of drama. A mob tuned for 2 groups of non-raiders will be killed by 1 group of raiders. Groupers will not even get a chance to fight it.
  19. Feradach Augur

    Good point. One nodrop item then seems to be the best solution.
  20. Drathus Augur

    For those of you spouting off negativity, try to have an open mind. Everquest was originally a social game of cooperation. Yes, there are box crews out there. It is part of what Everquest has become. However, ANYTHING you do that will affect a box group, will also have the same effect on a regular group. You push to change something because a box group might sit there and farm something, and god forbid you let that happen? The same changes will also have consequence to a group of six individuals. Ultimately the changes just make the zone less desirable overall. Don't have chase items? Don't make anything tradable? Don't have challenging mobs that require skill and numbers to kill? You end up going to the zone for a brief time and then never going back again. It is my understanding this zone is permanent? Please correct me if I am mistaken.

    The Hardcore Heritage experience in SolB and Mistmoore was more exciting than the CotF expansion itself, for my group of friends. Every single time I looted a mob, I had a spark of anticipation that it might have a chase item. The idea to introduce the highly desired chase items was genius on the part of the devs. The named were also challenging for a single group, unlike most new content.

    As for items being tradable in the HHS, I'm sure it brought back a little of the original Everquest experience. Where every single item was tradable and people would sit in East Commonlands bartering goods. I play on the Firiona Vie server, so everything is tradable anyway. This had no impact on us. However, it did give people the chance to actually attain items of value for trade, making the trade market actually mean something (on the blue servers). The Krono market also went wild and I'm sure SoE made some nice $$ from the event. This isn't a bad thing! It ensures these special events and the time investment in them is viable and continues into the future.

    Most box groups are made up of three toons and three mercs. If you want this to be more like the original social experience of Everquest, make it so mercs. cannot be used in the zone. It would prevent single groups from splitting into two 3+3 groups. It would encourage people to fill up their three box groups with other real people, if the content is tuned to full groups of six.