Changes with the February Update: Alternate Ability Grants for Gold Members and Ability Changes

So when you are LFG, what's more likely to get picked a 100 war with 5k aa (and 6 months played) or a 100 war with 5k aa who was powerlevelled from birth and has about a week played time? How would anyone know the difference until the player who can't play screws up? GL learning most effective use of your AA's without experience. Are SoE going to add played time to /w all 'name' ??

Someone saying nerf Warr's No Time To bleed
We were chain casting it as it took 3k off every hit, not bad when tanking in a group where mobs were hitting for 15k plus, problem was that without it Knights get picked over warriors yet again
So it got reduced, but at least we still get some use out of it.

So I started playing EQ back in Luclin. Over the years I always come back to it between deployments, and finally have some time to play consistently on shore duty, where I have been gearing up to work on current level content. I use a Zerk to help my toons level when I do have time to play (as previously mentioned, between work and family).

Having an MBA and also being a gamer for 30+ years and understanding EQ as I do, I am here to tell you that this is a POOR business decision. Running an MMO is about making money. Many people have multiple accounts (I pay for three gold accounts) and rely on the abilities you are currently nerfing. I know you think you are doing the right thing, but you will lose thousands of dollars doing this. People use those abilities, primarily, to "catch up" in the vast level grind. They use it to make platinum, which then goes back into the economy. Simply throwing free stuff at people will not work. It gives no sense of accomplishment. Even if I take my 3-boxes into the grounds and use decapitate to kill at an increased rate (which I EARNED the right to use grinding 90+ levels and 1k+ AA), I am not hurting any one.

And why the hell have you waited SO long to make these changes? Headshot has been around for numerous expansions....just...wow.

As previously stated, beaming is, currently, the only issue. Destroying mass amounts of mobs in current-level content, does not help the game. Think about the abilities you listed - Headshot, Decapitate, Assassinate - They work on LOW level content. Swarming is the same, limited by the mob's hp/DMG with respect to the SK's health/dmg. You have already balanced mass killing by limiting the level. Therefore, figure out the beaming problem - Just make it a PBAOE or a targeted one (manual - Big circle on the ground) that way if mobs are moving, they run out of it or something. Or hell, just stop giving upgrades to the line of spells starting in HoT expansion.

The bottom line is this - you will lose a lot of subscribers doing this. Fact. Giving away mass amounts of AA for free does not fix anything - It dilutes a game people hold as purer than the rest. AA - the potential for power - are what sets EQ apart from other, simpler MMOs.

You may think you know your game, but you don't. You have not thought about the financial repercussions of your actions. Get your spreadsheets ready to take to your bosses. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that meeting in a couple months once the dust settles.

-Wraige

I returned in August 2013 after a 7+ year absence as a 70 SK with 650ish AA, but I also had a 66 necro with 100AA that had been my solo/side project while playing before. Two of the primary reasons why I quit were the because of the gimping of content (85ing killed the mid-tier raid guilds since farther progressed guilds had to do no work to bribe lesser raiders away when their existing hardcores burned out) and because SKs had become pretty sad in their role of tanking, with rangers and zerkers becoming more preferred tanks since they not only tanked about as well as a SK but could put out more DPS.

So, after all the years away, a friend talks me into coming back. I love the action a SK gets, pulling, tanking, and generally just being in the middle of all the chaos. But I was reticent about working on the SK instead of the necro, especially as I'm watching my 100 mage friend own everything we came across (pet tanking with healer merc, not beaming). I tell myself I just need AA/gear/levels and I'll be ok. I've played my butt off the last 6 months, going from 70/650 to 100/7100, having done it all legit without any mass XP, but by soloing/moloing when alone or grouping with my guild that is entirely comprised of returning or new players.

The nerf to SK riposte healing kills my viability as a tank in our groups. Right now, I can tank trash in the end game just fine, but named can be dicey, with me usually dying to a bad round. My various lifetap procs help mitigate that to some degree, but it does nothing when I have a bad round, especially with some type of mob burst DPS (I get hit for a 30k aoe that my caster friends and their pet(s) aren't exposed to in addition to a spike of melee dps and I go splat despite burning my tanking discs). Meanwhile, after I'm dead, the pet(s) just keep chugging along despite the owner having less than half of my AA and less end game group gear. The ability to proc of a riposte is vital to me even staying alive as long as I do, by hopefully healing some of the burst damage I've taken, and I've gotten to the point where I just let the pet tank the named from the beginning while I do crappy ranged DPS. Sure, I need more AC augs (currently 8.6k with most of my augs over 32ac) and I go out and work on them all the time, but I can't expect a half dozen people to go play through older content just to hopefully get an aug that will help me while they get little benefit themselves, especially since I'm being outtanked by pets. I ask myself why I ever bothered returning to the weakest of all the tanks only for SKs to become even weaker.

The necro, on the same account, is now 98 with 3750 AA, entirely soloed, pretty much when I don't have any guild mates online. I got there largely through 6 months of consistently knocking out my dailies. With the 4000 AA grant, I ask myself, why did I bother? You want to accelerate AA progression by giving a bigger boost, maybe taking the curve up to 6k and doubling the AAXP under that versus where it currently is, fine, that seems reasonable (especially having a tank that felt completely inadequate prior to about 4k AA), but it isn't that hard to get AAXP and just completely giving it away is a slap in the face to those of us that have spent months working had at it.

So in the end, I can't help but ask myself... why did I bother returning to EQ at all? The changes as proposed wouldn't have lured me back, but they will drive me away by making my main utterly useless and negating all the effort I put into my primary alt/would be replacement main. That goes doubly so given my that necro hasn't picked up the rewards of all the group content I've done with my now-useless main (say, access to tier3/4 HOT, the alaris tear progress, etc). Yeah, I could repeat all of that, but again, why bother if, in another 6 months, I'm just going to be nerfed again or everything I've spent the last 6 months working on will be given away for free?

After re-reading some of these other posts:

Do any of you "developers" actually play your own product? Have you had any focus group meetings with both new, mid-range, and experienced players who pay for the service you provide?

You can't make massive, sweeping, changes to a system that the end-user doesn't want/need/want to pay for without extensive research (not just you and your buddies sitting around the table at work spit-balling random stuff). That's how businesses and organizations fail.

Get your acts together.

It's not how many - it's how they're given. Giving everyone everything takes away choice, and without choice there's less investment in the character. I chose to spend 10 points on Innate Int, I can stand behind that. Give me 400 points worth of innate wis, dex, cha, etc. and I don't feel invested.

I still think the 'giving away AA' is optional - I can live with the fixes without it. But if you must do it, do it so that people can opt in or out, and can choose how and when to get the AA. Either /claim options, or NPC options as previously mentioned.

How about changing the AA dialog, so that 'granted' AA can be bought by just selecting them and clicking a new button, or they can be bought by earning AA and buying them normally.

People who want a fast track get it, people who don't, or who want to control what they get can pick and choose.

Please don't be swayed by the 'I worked for them, everyone should' debate, you weren't when you unlocked PoP, and you shouldn't be now. But also, please don't feel you *have* to give away free AA. Making people earn something, even at a faster rate than previously, allows them to feel invested.

Well, Reading through those patch notes just sealed the deal for me...and i think many people, if you are expecting to get more players or returning players because of this, think again. Players come to EQ and have always come to EQ for a challenge. a sense of accomplishment in the game when they reach those thousands of AA's or unlock abilities that some cannot do. congratulations on turning EQ into just another mmo where people come and people go...i guess if you are trying to close down the game and make way for EQ:Next, you have finally done it with this update. soon you will be able to close down EQ as well as the other games like free realms, vanguard all that, good job! I know this will number my days of EQ, and when the patch goes in, that will be my end. ive been playing this game for a very very long time, but i do not want to play a game like world of warcraft where you can just max out everything in relative short time, hell with this new patch, i think EQ will be even EASIER than world of warcraft hahah. Amazing patch guys...just my 2cents. goodbye EQ.

So, as near as I can tell, the people who like to skip the entirety of the game, race to the endgame content to play with the "endgame in-crowd", toons they have absolutely no idea how to play (because they skipped all of the learning process along the way, have convinced you that they "deserve" to have the 4k AAs that I (and others like me) spent months EARNING. Can someone please explain to me precisely WHEN Everquest became a "race to the finish line"? This is absolutely ludicrous. Developing a top-end, uber toon SHOULD be difficult. It SHOULD take a bit of time-investment. And it should NOT be something that can be PL'd in an afternoon. I have an 89 Necro with 4250 AAs who can do things other, higher level Necros cannot, simply because I put the time and effort into EARNING those capabilities. And now you're saying my efforts were in vain because you're just going to give those abilities, free gratis, to all comers, for ZERO expended time or effort. Talk about a slap in the face. You really are catering this game to the laziest whiners in the gaming genre and screwing those who dedicate time and effort to cultivating their toons. Good job, idiots.

On the issue of nerfing swarmers... THAT is LOOOONG overdue.

There's a great irony in this pair of changes. You say that swarming (which was SOLELY a way to "skip the game and get the rewards anyway") was an abuse of game features, then you turn around and add the AA freebies (a way to "skip the game and get the rewards anyway") < -- think about this guys. You are giving the lazy players exactly what they've wanted - and have been getting - from exploits. EXACTLY THOSE THINGS (waaaaa. it's too hard to become uber. make it easy. waaaaa.)

Seriously. Don't Nerf the AAs.

The AA granting is WRONG on so many levels. I am a returning player (late October 2013) and have took great pride in my AA's as I feel like I was "crafting" my character. I am very selective on what I spent my AA's on for the simple fact that I know I will probably drop down to Silver level for the late spring / summer as I will be doing lots of family activities. What this change essentially tells me is that I need to drop to silver NOW because If I don't I will be SCREWED when I do drop to Silver for the Summer because I won't be able to get ANY new AA's. Please DO NOT DO THIS...it will COMPLETELY ruin the game for as I like to spend some days just doing AA's on light blue/green mobs while I chat with friends in game or whatever. If you do this I will most likely stop playing AT ALL for the months that I was going to dropt o Silver and then there is probably a good chance I won't return in the fall as I will have "fallen out of love" with EQ due to a 4-5 month absence.

PLEASE DO NOT DO THE AUTO-AA granting....it will RUIN any sense of accomplishment around AA's as a character "customizing" avenue.

Give Gold 1/2 price for the AA's in the expansion you outlined for giving them full if you want to make it easier for them. Which would still give them the ability to CRAFT their character, but just granting everything will COMPLETELY DESTROY this sense and like I started with. Those of us who may need to drop to silver for one reason or another will be SCREWED TOTALLY by this as it will push us past the Silver cap.

The whole idea of auto-granting Alternate Advancement boils down to SOE making a decision for a character that rightfully belongs to the player! How dare SoE, the developers et al usurp that decision from us?

IF SoE believes that AA's need to be earned more quickly, good grief, simply change the current formula! Currently there is a descending bonus through 4000 AA's. If you can do that then, assuredly, you are capable of altering the formula to allow for a descending bonus to apply to 5000 or 6000 or 7000 or whatever number of AA's. Increase the bonus, if necessary, but, at least, let us, the PLAYERS make our own choice about which AA's and what order we wish to acquire them !!

Each player deserves the right to tailor a character according to that players preference! What came over you, the developers, to actually believe we, the players, need to be baby-sat as it were, when it comes to decisions about how WE want our characters to grow??

People who cannot gain AA's in the first place? The only people who cannot gain AA's are those who log in and sit in the lobby!

Making it so the guy coming behind doesn't have to what? Earning AA's in today's game is a LOT easier than it was 12, 10, 8, 6, 4 years ago!

How anyone can support this change just baffles me!

Being a neutered warrior after the Hate Rising changes to NTtB, I have zero sympathy for all of the mages, shadow knights, rangers, rogues or berserkers affected by these changes.

However, I am utterly appalled by the decision to auto-grant AAs all the way up to Underfoot. For 15 dollars (or a Krono, if you had enough platinum before quitting), you get the biggest participation trophy of all time. I guess actually playing the game is too hard for some people.

I think I may need to more seriously consider diverting some of my Everquest subscription money to the Pantheon cause.

by the way...nelfing the mage's beam spell as alot of you want...wont fix the problem at all...the avg mage ( i said avg not every mage please keep up ) can kill 3 mobs and then have to med up to max...kill 3 mobs..med up to max and so on...now to all the lovely hating people and i do understand and agee something needs to be done...but let me explain this to you...even if you limit the mobs count down to 8 mobs ( i know there limiting it down to 12 like i said keep up )...a mage will be able to swarm 8 mobs...kill them while the mobs are running at full speed...in around the time it will take to kill 3 mobs med kill 3 mob by this time the mobs are dead on the kite and the mage can pull another 8...the mag who his just killed 6 mobs is now medding right now....if you ever been in a group with a mage who knows what he doing while beaming you will know for a fact he will never run out of mana while beaming...and the mage is 2 mobs up than if he was killing 1 at a time...NOW...here the thing...them mobs were running at full speed meaning the mage had to spend more time running away and timing he nuke so on...there is NOTHING stopping that mage from still pulling the WHOLE zone and still using that lag to and shortening how fair he his to run and there for making it even quicker...and like i said if the mage know what he doing he wont run out of mana...also on top of that...as mobs start to die and the lag starts to die down...mobs will more than likely start to spawn and there for making the mage gather up them mobs to keep the zone in an endless lag spike...therefor sony would of made there system's lag spike worse as it wouldn't be a lag spike it would be a lag the whole time...all the people who wanted the beam spell nelf would then be even more tick off as they would never be able to hunt in them zone cos the zone would always be laggy....how many people who ask for the nelf REALLY put thought into this???....now if anyone his any question feel free to ask me as am the guy who invented the beam pulling for mage's in Sod expansion in field of scale's...and i named it dragon army kiting as i used to beam kite the whole dragon army ( apart from the dragon themself's as they have VERY small agro range you really do have to run a mob over the dragon before it will agro )

but like i said...i agree the mage spell needs to be nelf as people have refuse to listen to my rule i set in place...only do it in mission's...and if you gotta do it in an open zone make sure no one is there and as soon as someone zone in regardless if your almost killed the mobs you gate out no question ask the rules were pretty simple and would of ment beam kiting would never of got nelf

the BEST way to fix the whole problem...forget about limiting the count...make it so the beam spell can only hit mobs that con grey to you...that's the easiest fix and the only real one that would work which would then mean mage's loss the spell being able to cast on raids and such but you would be making that small amount of EQ player's happy

How hard (or how simple actually) would it have been to just nerf the mage beam spell and without the whole "Free AA" scenario to give us a better feeling (which it actually doesnt)?

/shrug I am so confused/dissapointed I can't even think straight

Gonna cancel all my gold membership and see how this all turns out. If all the other changes, besides the mage beam go through I dont think my life in EQ will continue.

I have enjoyed PLing friends/random people who return to EQ for a long time, but these changes will effect my life in EQ drastically. All in the hope that you (SOE) gain a few more members with this cookie crap :S

Peace

In the old role playing games, this sounds like a " monty hall " campaign, when everyone would complain too many things were given away. Some people do actually like earning what they have.
My characters still don't have max AAs and as long as I've had some of them, they probably should, but I wasn't expecting to have anything just handed to me either.
I would think long and hard about this one, as its the complication of this game that brings alot of people to it.
You already have modified the game with so many classes having an instant kill button, and now let's just hand over things that others have had to spend time, sometimes years, to achieve.
You may as well ditch your new race and class combo and just make a damn kung fu panda and call it WOW Jr.

I play both SK and mage and find swarming mindnumbing boring on both toons. By all means try and get rid of it but please dont kill the SK mele-based lifetap abilities... Just remove Mortal Coil and SKs cant swarm anymore and go a head with limiting beams for mages. (Cant comment on the other class changes since I dont play them. )
1, If SK dont get something to compensate for that loss we will hurt bad. I use epic when ever its up.
2, Lifetap abilities are SK lore, we take life from our foes and use it. I dont want to be a watered down warrior.

And if you going to give AA up to UF please open up the raids to match that timeframe so groupers can have more content to explore.

I like the fact of S.O.E. doing weekly and monthly updates. As a Gold Member its a great way to make me feel like I'm getting what i paid for. I am returning for about a year after a 10 year...break. I fully understand the thought out decisions made to classes that have taken advantage and also are ruining the game for others. I just want to explore and have fun in a game. If everything runs better, also have to spend less time grinding out 4,000 AA's then cool.

The intent of this change is to stop the zone disruption ok np i can understand that, but then "These abilities will only trigger off of activated attacks, and not from riposted attacks." is enough. No need to lower the proc rate at all, at least for assassinate and decapitate that are abilities that needs the player to be in melee range. If we cant riposte and so can only trigger it on the mob we are actively attacking the goal is achieved, we will have no more interest in pulling mass mobs so no more zone disruption. So please again let the proc rate as it is and increase the level of mobs affected for us to STILL have some use of it and some little ful soloing/moloing killing one mob at a time.

not saying that these changes are the worst or something, but honestly consider the tanking ability (and i don't mean swarming here) of an sk, when his ripostes don't lifeleach anymore and keep his health up, we don't have any other kind of healing like Paladins do, or fancy discs of the warriors

So after putting some thought into these changes, I figured I would post some alternate changes.

Purposed Alternate changes to mage/wiz:
Instead of 12 mobs on their Beam, make it 18. That way they are still able to effectively AOE on raids like Doomscale horde (the T1 COTF one).

Change the name of mages "Summon: Drink Spell" to "Summon: Tears of a Mage"

Purposed Alternate Changes to Clerics:
As for clerics, they have it hard enough as it is don't they? Very little offensive ability, straight healing. This is a class that should not have what little offensive ability (IE Baston/mega damage on being hit) stripped away from them. This is also one class that cleric mercs almost killed completely in grouping. If you wanted to do anything to help clerics out, nerf cleric mercs instead of the only 2 spells that really make playing a cleric enjoyable.

Grant AA's
This is a decent idea which would promote the game play of alts more so than mains. I think you have a good start to what would be a very promising addition to EQ. That being said a way to quell some of the up rise and anger about this idea is through information. I purpose you post we plan on getting rid of XYZ, or granting XYZ, or expanding the bonus AA xp to 6k AA"s, etc etc etc( I'm sure you get the point). I guess my point is, be a little bit more transparent with what you guys are looking to do, and the feedback you want instead of saying we are granting AA's, each class would still need X amount of AA"s.

i don't think i have ever posted but this has made me kinda mad.
i have been back about a year and half.. was quit for 8 years
my SK was 70 with 75 AA,.
now my SK is 100 with 15K AA. and with the change you are going to make on the sk it will make him useless.
the fact that you never added any more lvls to MC made swarming a no go at lvl 100 any way as it only procs on light blues and any light blue at lvl 100 hits like a train. (yes i can swarm grounds but prob only 20 mobs nothing like we used to be able to do in fort mech, kareson)

as for the granting of AA i am all for that as long as you dont start selling lvl 85's nothign worse then a high lvl noob. people complain that mercs killed the grping for healers and tanks.. but with out being funny i know what my merc can do.. i let a cleric join me once. he kept running out of mana.. and i couldnt wait for him to leave.
if your gonna grant AA give 500 AA at every mile stone as an achievement reward. from 55 to 85 that's 3.5K AA to spend were they wanna spend..
well only prob with that is the is only like 110 AA at lvl 55.. but you get the point do it as a graded reward. 100 at 55 and 750 at 85.. that way people still have to lvl there toon up and they get to learn what they just spend the AA on before they get the next.

but again NO SK nerf..
yes i play many other class's inc ranger berserk mage. Nerf them its about time. (i do use decap alot but who cares remove it make it harder for people to lvl that way they get to learn the newly granted AA's)