Changes with the February Update: Alternate Ability Grants for Gold Members and Ability Changes

Well, you'll just need to learn to play your class well. I imagine this is the hardest thing that most sks will experience.

Overall, I think these are long overdue changes.

It never felt "right" deciding not to level up because you didn't have enough AA's to be powerful enough to gain more levels and kill mobs at the right level (a huge consideration if you play .... "independently").

Too many AA's got added over the years, and the game seemed to balance itself around what folks would have if they simply spent a few months at the level cap waiting for the next expansion. It was never a strong experience for folks who were levelling up behind the crowd, as the power jumps for mobs as you levelled into the next tier were too severe without the AAs. I had hoped this change would've gone in a few years ago instead of shifting the AAXP curves, but happy to see the change go in now.

Tying the change to gold members is a great idea to push more subscription benefits to lower levels, something EQ was largely missing with the F2P conversion. Hoping these changes will help drive more resources everyone's way.

Swarm killing? Yeah, it was fun the first few times when you'd see the results of shakerpaging, but definitely something that can go (and likely made far less "necessary" with the proposed AA changes, let's face it, people were piling on AA's with the swarm kiting).

Well thought out and considered changes, should provide a great benefit to the game long term.

Instead of nerfing sk epic, instead nerf visage of death. This will eliminate the ability to swarm in any meaningful xp zone. Is it fun having this ability? Yes. But it's absence will only be a microcosm of the affect that nerfing 2.0 will. I'm begging that you don't mess with our epic and riposte. It's what sets our class apart from others in a time where every class seems to be molding together. Eliminating a dps ability on a non dps class makes much more sense than taking away their main class defining ability.

It isn't just about AA's and the Swarming/Beam kiting, Its a matter of time for the upper lvl 100's to bail if the content doesn't start getting harder.. and i am not talking about 2million HP group mobs that normal grouped gear players cant solo..

Beaming definitely needs to be fixed. As does any other type of mass swarming. This could be done either by allowing it to continue to be done in "instances" only or by limiting the number of mobs that would be affected by spells or in the case of Shadowknights a limitation on the number of procs that can occur due to ripostes. Please do not take away the ability of SKs to tank by making ripostes not proc lifetaps. If you take away assassinate from rogues they won't be able to solo at all. All classes need to have the ability to effectively solo or molo to some extent. Increase the experience for those grouping if that's the direction you want things to move.

AA's - This could be done by making some lower level zones (empty ones) double or triple or whatever experience. This way people could catch up to others, but, they would have to do some work and learn how to play their class. If you just wave a magic wand over characters and grant them that many AA's they will be playing in easy mode and won't be able to manage playing their characters when they are "able" to join in the higher level game. I have played a few "PL'd" characters and it can be very embarrassing as well as frustrating when you aren't invited back as you don't know how to actually "PLAY" your class. Just because you've read which spell to cast or which ability to use doesn't mean you have the timing down enough to do it when you all of a sudden don't have that AA buffer that you've had. People can really end up hitting a wall and then get really frustrated.

Please don't make the mistake to over-do this nerf. Think it through. I truly believe you are risking the entire population of a game I and others have really enjoyed.

I don't begrudge others for getting something that I have worked hard for. However, you don't give someone the keys to your Maserati before they have learned to drive the station wagon.

Thank you for your time.

Why do players look for exploits? To get extra money or exp/ This is evidently bad. Yet EQ gives gold players free money (loyalty points) and free exp (AA's). This is a mixed message. It's not okay if find a creative work around ; that's exploiting the game. So what do you call when you give us these things instead?

Giving away AA's is just as bad as exploiting. I'm not a fan of either, but at least I can choose not to exploit the game. I can't unlearn the AA's your "gifting me"

Alright, I said I was done posting, but I lied. I went through and read all the dev posts and their responses to peoples questions and concerns.
Now my goal is to provide ideas that perhaps have not been mentioned(but probably have) in a semi-formatted way.

I will not be discussing swarming, as it does not affect me, but instead I will be discussing ideas for potential changes to the AA system

Things people have addressed:
1: Handing out free AAs is like giving a car to someone that doesn't know how to drive.
2: All that previous AA grind is now just a waste of time.
3: Some AAs you might actually NOT want.
There are obviously more, but these are the ones I am addressing at this moment.

Answers to the above:
1: Handing out free AAs is like giving a car to someone that doesn't know how to drive.
1A: Don't just hand them out, simply increase the xp boost for lower lvl aa's, that way you at least feel like you're working for something as you go, and, you can put aa xp on ~30% and still be getting enough to handle lvling just fine.
1B: Throw out the old AAs that are irrelevant and put them somewhere else, aka, at lvl 51 you get X stats. (no longer an AA, but more of a passive.) And make it so only the ones you want people to have to earn (abilities, procs) are earned through the AA system (again, probably at an increased xp rate)

2: All that previous AA grind is now just a waste of time.
I feel like this is a big enough concern that you should feel obligated to somehow reward those that have put time and effort into past AA grind.
2A: /claim rewards or something similar
2B: Make it so any xp that went toward outdated AA's is now instead re-granted as either xp, or AA points. (this would probably have to go over cap temporarily.) So for me, I would log on, transfer all of my AA xp into leveling xp and gain some levels. Or if I was high enough I could just re-spend them elsewhere within the AA path. (I'm really liking this idea)
2C: If you somehow track experience, simply make it so this xp(Within the last month or two) can be put toward lvling or different AAs. (This could be problematic because you will still have people arguing how far back this would go) So generally, I would not vote for this, but it is an option.

3: Some AAs you might actually NOT want.
1A: Simply make it so people have to allocate anything that 'may' not be a benefit to your character.
Sorry, fresh out of ideas for this one.

Other Concerns that need to be addressed:
People have bought AA extenders, if they upgrade to gold to get the free AA, I personally think these AA extenders should be granted past any AAs granted from being gold.

Hopefully this was at all insightful. Most I can hope for is a red post referencing my post.

@Piestro I understand the difficulties you are having to deal with. Good luck finding the best option.

YOU HAVE to be KIDDING ME! I've put THOUSANDS of hours into my AAs and you are just GIVING THEM AWAY? This game is now official dead to me.

I'm a totally casual player. I was on EQ the second day and took time out for Shadowbane and SWG. Yet, on my 11 year veteran account my best developed character is level 71 with 1,050 AAs and 104 days played.

I disagree with any mass 'give away' of AAs.

Of course I get tired of killing Murkgliders some days and would love 3k AAs. Haha.

But I'm not jealous of any of the high level players. I have no desire to 'catch up'. I don't feel short-changed by life cause I'm not uber. What I have earned I earned. And the decision to play 'straight up' has been mine.

Yet, who are the players that are jealous of the level 100s with their 8k AAs? They must exist in very large numbers or SOE wouldn't be risking this entire game with a major re-boot. All the low level content is practically obliterated.

Personally, I don't think these players exist. But suppose they did?

Why can't they catch up? No guild mates to PL them? No money? I bet I could buy three Krono tomorrow and trade them for a PL to 95 with 2-3k AAs on the Rathe. For less than the cost of a EQ Landmark founder pack I could be level 100! So what...

I think this give-away is too risky. It could easily alienate the faithful that have worked hard to have their 'position' in EQ but NOT attract a new generation of loyal players.

So go ahead: QUINTUPLE the early AA experience, make every quest on Hero's Journey give 20 AA, make every achievement give 10AAs BUT make the players earn EVERY of them. Give nothing away free cause you're not going to like the crowd it attracts.

Ymir.

That's exactly the plan at the moment for Shining Rampart.

I got up to the first 30 pages.. and I've pretty much got an understanding of what's going on. I'd like a developer to read this and get back to me if possible.

I am in favor of the AA grant, but I feel that there should be some sort of compensation to people who have already obtained most of the AA's that are being granted. I support granting all AA's up to and including Underfoot. The best way I feel the compensation would work is to work up a "compensation value" to each AA line, with the more important AA's weighted slightly higher toward their actual value and the less important AA's weighted slightly lower.

Example #1: Combat Agility costs 10 points at X tier. Because it's a much more important AA it's very likely people have invested into it. I'd weight it at lets say.. 80%.

Example #2: Innate Lung Capacity costs 10 points at X tier. Because it's a much less important AA it's very unlikely people would have gone out of their way to raise it. I'd weight it closer to 30%.

In both examples lets say both abilities are granted to someone who has already acquired them. They would instead gain 8+3 = 11 AA into their pool to spend for those two abilities. It doesn't quite give the full amount you're going to grant.. which will keep the numbers from inflating too much.. but at the same time rewards people who used their first couple thousand AA points to invest in important AA choices.

This AA pool will have a temporarily higher cap than normal to allow people to obtain and spend the points they get from the grant. But they will not be able to earn new points until they do if they are over their normal cap.

I'll be posting another reply with my thoughts on Rogues.. I'd really like a response to that one as well.

I am one of the newly returning players. I am currently purchasing a gold subscription monthly. I am enjoying the game again. It take effort to gain level and AA still. Maybe not as much as it once did. I began my EQ experience during it's beginning.
With all that said, I truly feel this change is an injustice to the people who have been able to stay committed to this game. Giving AAs for free that others have struggled and worked for is an insult to your most loyal consumers. And I would like to be clear on my perspective,....my highest character at this point is a level 90 Ranger with 1300 AAs. I am not a power gamer, I have way to much going on to devote the kind of time and money it would take to get to where so of these people have in Everquest. Does getting a ton of AA for free seem appealing to me? Sure it does. Does it seem fair to me? Absolutely not.
The nerfing of the mass killing abilities I am kind of biased on really. I see offers for beam pulls sure, but I have never been in a zone or situation where it hurt or affected my in-game experience. Rogues, Zerkers and Rangers are quite different I feel. Humaniod mobs limit the situation and I've not experienced any of these classes on my server becoming a nuisance because of these abilities. And hasn't the Ranger HS already been nerfed?
I can honestly say that I'm niot sure I would stick around if all these changes were to go into effect.

Here's yet another idea to earn AA as opposed to being gifted them to allow catch-up.

Every day (resets at midnight), if you are below the magic number (varies with player level ) in total AA, your first AA earned from xp gets 10 bonus AA, your 2nd 9, your 3rd 8, your fourth 7, etc, down to no bonus.

This gives you around ~50 extra AA a day, rewards you with actual consistent playing, and playing some every day, but you still need to put in time to get the 10 to get max bonus. Once you do you are back to normal, so this stops it from being something you can try to cheat from grinding out a huge session. It forces you to play every day, but allows you to catch up and the greatest reward is those first few AA each day.

~50 extra AA a day if you put in the time, in ADDITION to the AA you already are getting, as long as you can put in 10 a day of you own effort, and ONLY until you catch up to your threshold for your level, so that when you hit level x, you were at the desired cap from actual playing of the game. If you have longer sessions, no problem, you just don't keep getting crazy AA. That way if you want to earn more than the normal pace, hey you are still rewarded for working harder than the casual guy.

This also would only work if someone was gold, so they would be incentive to keep gold to keep the bonus going.

Amen brother! I implore you to leave all the classes that have unique abilities alone! Most of us worked damn hard to get to where we are and to hone our skills and abilities to be able to do what we do. Now, because of a few whiners and complainers that want something for nothing (which you seem willing to give them) they are going to ruin it for the old-timers in the game that have worked hard...stuck it out...played for 10+ years and now we get to watch you give a new player in the time it takes to level up what it took some of us 3 - 6 years to earn. Again, I have to say that you love to "SLAP US IN THE FACE" when it comes to giving the new players everything and just "TAKE IT AWAY FROM THE OLD". I guess that is the way it is always going to be. You claim it is for the longevity of the game...I think you will see more players leave the game than you did when you instituted the Mercenary! Just my humble opinion.

If you are going to take things away, and you are taking one helluva lot away this time, and giving the new players who have done nothing to earn there way everything...why don't you keep in mind what you are saying to the old-timers that have kept you working for that last 14+ years. Just think about it, please.

I understand the need to make it easier for new players to get past the feature acquisition curve that is the deep AA pool in order to allow them to interact constructively with the rest of the player base. I also suspect, although it's not directly stated here, that the sale of PL services to push alts and whatnot through this long curve is a desired casualty (because it encourages mass-killing optimization that leads to things like beaming). Less of that is less motivation to find a similar server-injurious replacement.

That's all well and good, but I'd like to echo the thoughts of others about why this solution isn't the best solution. Or, indeed, a very good solution.

By now, the devs are well-aware that there are some AA that aren't fit for purpose for all players. For me, as a shaman, like with the enchanters here, that includes Spell Casting Subtlety. I've had two shaman, one of which was an endgame raider from Kunark through PoR or so, and one of which -- my current character -- is part of a tiered leveling project with a group of friends. Neither has ever had so much as a single rank of SCS. I know we've asked and asked and ASKED for a toggle to be put on that for years and been told it's technically impossible. If we can't toggle it off, don't force us to toggle it ON.

But the other concern was mentioned briefly upthread. This change makes it impossible to spend significant time at levels below 86. If you have max banked AA, and you earn AA, you earn real XP, even at 100% XP to AA. My current playgroup is leveling stepwise through the game, 5 levels at a time, pushing the envelope of what can be done at each level. What does that mean? It means, right now, we're working on the first tier of Underfoot and House content. At 80. Fun times. But if our AA allotments are entirely filled, we can't tread water. We've contemplated pushing up to 85 as we start to exhaust the content literally requestable at 80, but if you make this change, we are literally incapable of sticking at 85 to do the rest of UF and start diving into House and Veil ahead of schedule.

Please don't do this. At least, please don't do this THIS way.

Thanks.

Personally, I support the AA auto-grant as a way to reduce the height of the mountain that new/returning players or alts must climb before being able to play current content, where all the other players are. This will be good for the long term health of the game, which depends heavily on returning players.

Four expansions worth of AA is still a lot of AA to work on for auto-grant recipients. It does take away some of the sense of accomplishment from those of us who got our AA's the old-fashioned way, fighting uphill both ways, in the snow, etc. But to me that is a price worth paying if the devs can position EQ to be more viable in the long run.

Yep its true, only guys really smoking stuff are raid geared to the teeth. I actually die on 75% of my swarm pulls but i don't lose much xp and my friends get good xp. Thats with 30 to 40 mobs and 25 or so of them actually getting killed. then I have to wait 25 mins to do it again, with max hastened AA.

I don't know how hard this would be (I am not a programmer in the slightest) but how about something like this:

Auto grant all the AA's as planned. However, make them NOT count toward total AA amount and have them work only half as well as intended.

Just as an example....Innate Metabolism (using this since it actually gives specific numbers in the description). Currently, getting the 3 AA's in it reduce your food and drink consumption by 10, 25, and 50% respectively. So how about give it for free and it only does 5, 15 and 25% respectively. Then, people can choose to earn AA exp and put it in there to get the full effect.

This way, people who are returning or are new can be effective in a group (no, not with that AA. Remember, it was just an example. I'm talking about combat ones and such) still, but not as effective as someone who has done the work. Then if you want to make your character even more powerful and be even more successful, you can work for the AA's and spend them as you see fit in order to raise those AA's you really want to.

On the flipside of this, the long time players who have built up their players through AA's but have skipped the AA's they find useless to them, get the bonus of receiving those AA's at half power. I may never give a rats tush about innate metabolism and never put an AA point in it, but hey! now I get the benefit at half power for free!

Why I say to not make them count toward AA total is because then technically, the bonus is still there for low level AA's for those newer players to catch up to maximum power instead of just half. They still have to do work, but they are also still able to function in a group as a fairly valuable member.

It would also really help to put an on/off toggle next to each AA as well (as I saw someone previously post). Then, AA's who may be helpful to some classes but are detrimental to others can be decided upon by the individual player if they want to use it. Example would be the casting subtlety AA. As I saw posted before, an Enchanter may not like this to where a Wizard or Mage would.

All in all, a new or returning player is helpful enough to group, yet someone who has done the work doesn't feel quite as slighted. They did the work and built up their character. The new player is effective but still needs to work to be the most of what they could be.

Just an idea. Don't know how good or realistic it is.

You do realize this is false right? its a Passive ability (least for Necromancers) and I am looking right at it to verify (JUST incase i overlooked it somehow).

that's another question are we going to get refunded the thousands of aa's weve grinded and bought? do we get time to respend them? I refused to level my toon because I wanted the aa's to back my level my mage is only 98 has over 6k aa and wasn't going to ding 99 until 7k aa. I push and grind and grind for my aa's I solo constantly. I don't beam kite but im still getting nerfed because yall don't want to take the time to see who does it. sit in general chat for a hour and ban the accounts for beamers, don't hurt all of us for it. and all those aa's lost and bought for nothing is just depressing. I know you will not respond to me and that's ok, I know you will not miss my money that's ok too. but im sure someone else will be happy to have someone that will be loyal and stick with them for 1.5 decades, its a shame your not