1. Counterattack only lasts 12s, 2. There's only a handful of mobs throughout those entire zones that fall under the level cap and have a humanoid tag (that give xp, remember there was a nerf to the xp mobs in Argath on the top level... as a remedy for people swarming them they took away the xp they give, an obv knee-jerk reaction...) 3. If there's any lag, there's no way the group of mobs will even be in the right spot by the time 12s is up. 4. lower current content (which is a year or 2 years old) is older content, there's nothing current about it. I'd want to see the video proving this, 15-30 mobs, and they all die. I give them one thing though, at least there's still a risk involved.
There was a reason I had a disclamer of " assuming you are talking about auras " If a druid is regularly out sustaining everything but a wizard and mage, all other things equal, I would question the skill level of the other classes. In the parse you listed, the sustained for the others were people clearly not trying or not near the same gear/aa level as the druid.
Yea, obviously they weren't the best players. I am not saying they were the MJ's of EQ. Even if you double or triple them though, they're still falling under the druid. Also, if you increase the DPS of other group members, the DPS of the druid goes up too. I can burn for 90k without support on druid in T2 (group) gear with 4k AA. Druids also have the ability to hit multiple targets consistently, where most DPS do not. In an extended grind, this becomes a HUGE factor. It might drop your singular DPS per mob a hair, but when you combine it, it shows, and is exponential.
The difference between raid and group gear is smaller than ever. There is no way a druid can outsustain any of the 8 dps classes, especially necros, which you had 2 in your group. Unless you mean raiders vs PUG as an indication of skill level. But then it only means that the druid was a 'raider' while the necros sucked. But within the same skill level there is no way a druid can beat any real dps, not just wiz/mag but the rest too.
Don't get me wrong. Druids can bring solid DPS and can edge out a dps merc set to burn for sustained. I am content with this. If someone is slacking, I can embarass them. This is a case of user error on the DPSers side. Druids are *not* ahead of equally geared/AAd DPS classes putting forth quality effort. They, obviously, should not be.
Don't forget the context of this discussion malibu66. This is a group setting being discussed. 1 roar and SS with twincast 1spire black wolf and BP will easily give you 90k dps from a mob.
Those were 2 different games. I played both. I believe Terris was based off of Cosrin. Either one or both were only available for play on AoL to start.
1. Yes, it lasts 12 seconds. The skill and ability to do this is killing 95% or more the pull in that time period with only a few stragglers dying soon after with some secondary abilities or clicks. 2. I don't think any special ability like assassinate, decap wasn't even around yet and monks don't have one, is needed. Its about riposting every hit and using all the big toys and AA to riposte, ae or whatever for massive amounts of damage with each hit. You might be correct that since this occurred back when those expansions and prior launches were current that the mobs have since been nerfed or certain abilities that were needed have changed but I don't know if that is true or false. But prior to CoTF it was possible with skill, practice and know how. That was my only point that many people were crying foul I can't do this so no one can when in fact just about every class has some means to swarm these days. its just harder or not as well known for some classes. Just as the dps argument often goes, waaaaaaaah I'm a zerker and I can't do this much dps or waaaaaah I'm a rogue and I am embarrassed everynight in the parse but I'm doing everything right since I have played the class for 10 years trust me here is math to prove it. When in fact there is someone else who figured out a new combo or trick to put out levels well above what is common knowledge and they are smart enough to not post videos about it or tell every tom, and jane who plays the class. 3. See my comments about this taking skill and practice and thus it not being as main stream as ranger HS or zerker decapping in old zones. IIRC 30-40 mobs was probably the absolute most they would do and that many usually isn't all that laggy unless the zone is busy. 70-250+ plus mob trains like sk's and mages are doing are what makes the ping pong lag, although there are exceptions as some zones might lag pretty easily. 4. When VoA launched Argath was current that's when I am talking about. When RoF launched Shards was current that's when I am talking about. Not 2 years after the fact as then as you so elegantly pointed out its not current. I don't have any video and even if I did I wouldn't share it. The main problem with the classes today are not what they are lacking or how bad some are its that everyone is so waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I want this as well or waaaah I can't personally perform at this level despite playing the class for 8 years so Im an expert on the matter. When in fact they have other abilities that other classes might envy or that might get them close to what others have via another path. Or they in fact can perform at dps, healing or tanking levels well above what is common knowledge or what that supposed class master knew was possible because they continued to only do what used to work or ignored key changes to abilities, buffs, support or whatever.
I see a lot of hear say, possible, maybe, once upon a time, I think, could maybe do, at sometime but not now, nothing.
All I am saying is that I never knew anyone to take a 5-10 second parse serious under any circumstance. Ever.
5 seconds parses don't mean anything cause... you know.. one big crit and voila, huge numbers. About the 2 necro you were grouped with.. I do hope you had some filter turned off, or you stood too far away from the mob to parse correctly, or something.. cause my 96 BST in fear-touched gear with 2k AA can sustain 12-13kdps for atleast 30 minute ( lesson burn)... I can't imagine 20k dps being hard to do once, you know, I grab those mising 10k AA and 4 levels...
I feel like there's an inadequate amount of knowledge floating around about sustained DPS in a group setting. I'm gunna join em. Druids are bad.
Yes, let's see... the group DPS was soo high your necros would only use 2-3 dots one mob ( out of the.. 15? they can use) yet, only 1 person in your group actually out-dps the tanks I group with. Heck, I'm not sure why you disagree ; pretty much everyone but you agree that druids need help. Anyway, this thread is about SoE attempt to *fix* beam.
People disputing how worthwhile a 5 second parse is has nothing to do with *sustained* dps and if Druids are good/bad. Druids are behind DPS classes. This is not "bad". This is where a priest class should be. If a non-DPS class could regularly outdps all but 2 DPS classes as you claimed, that would be horrible and broken. That being said, Druids do not seem to typically complain about our DPS contribution. I don't believe I have ever seen any Druid point to our personal DPS and say " this is a major problem for us, it is why we are bad".
Yes, they were originally only available on AOL. They are both still around too I think. Legends of Terris was released first, and then Cosrin was developed. The guy who created them, Paul Barnett (Deori in Terris), has worked on a lot of games since and I think he still works at Mythic.
