Zack Snyder's Justice League

I believe Zach Snyder - when Warner Bros leaves him ALONE - can produce a coherent story AND direct.

He proves this in Zach Snyder's Justice League



Don't forget that this man had the unfortunate tragedy in his family that took him AWAY from 2017 Justice League and left it to Joss Whedon, which subsequently butchered it.

Additonally - the man was given ONLY THREE movies to bring Batman, Superman, AND Justice League to the Big Screen....only THREE MOVIES.

Marvel gave Captain America THREE movies...Iron Man THREE movies...Thor will end up getting FOUR MOVIES I think....Ant Man / Ant Man and Wasp - TWO movies.....

Zach Snyder gets it.

Snyder wants to Deconstruct superheroes obviously Alan Moore did it the best with Watchmen and Mark Hamill did it with the Black Pearl but snyder can't tell a story. Take MOS we have a 35yr old clark kent trying to find himself ask yourself this why is he trying to find himself when the answers were in that barn for 35yrs. He didn't learn to fly till he was 35. You find out at a young age that you are not human and that you have abilities that humans don't have wouldn't you test yourself? Supermans' story is and has always been about the worlds greatest parents who transformed a conquering alien into the boy scout. Metropolis is Chicago and Gotham is NY but in snyderverse they are a helicopter ride away!

Netflix let him do his thing in army of the dead, it is stir fried garbage. one scene they escape the head parkour skilled zombie at the top floor of a bldg in a helicopter, and in the next scene he is riding a horse in front of the helicopter!

I have seen this on here before - from several other posters.

Here is my response -

DC has "Deconstructed" Superman for the last 40 years or so, lol......on the Big Screen he disobeyed Krypton's Prime Directive for interfering in the affairs of other beings by REVERSING the rotation of Earth and GOING BACK IN TIME to revive Lois Lane



Then in Superman 2 he actually ABDICATED his powers (and responsibility to Earth)



He THEN subsequently gets his Human butt beat down



...before he FINALLY comes to his senses and "Mans Up" to defeat General Zod, Ursa, and the other Kryptonian.

Then you have MY FAVORITE Superman - The WINO one lol



You mean Supes partook of The Spirits? Is that a Jack Daniels bottle LOOL.........

Fast forward to him FIRST MEETING Darkseid, in the Superman TAS. Now, Darkseid is a being who is EVERY BIT as powerful as Superman...one he CANNOT push around...one who slaps him around....one whom ACTUALLY Mind-Controlled him, along with Granny Goodness

Superman meeting Darkseid first time



Superman mind-controlled by Darkseid and Granny Goodness



A Mind-Controlled / Brainwashed Superman invading Earth and subsequently beating down his Super Cousin



I cannot find any clips (yet) of him in STAS knocking his cousin unconcious but here's an image of it



Now, you have one of him getting rescued from prison AFTER coming to his senses. You can tell by Kara-El's response that she is having trust issues with her cousin after his betrayal.



And to top it all off - he takes his wounded cousin to Professor Hamilton and THREATENS him into treating Supergirl. I cannot find any clips, yet, of this because it's so old but evidently it frightens him enough to join CADMUS many years later in FEAR of Superman



This is a BRILLIANT plot twist that Dwayne McDuffie (RIP) and the writers of JLU bring to the forefront for ANOTHER plot twist MANY YEARS later in the epic JLU animated series.

FINALLY - you have one CRUCIAL event that throws Superman into a MANY YEARS conflict with Darkseid - with the senseless murder of Police Inspector Dan Turpin



He THEN goes to Apokolips (by HIMSELF - another reckless venture), and almost KILLS Darkseid out of mindless anger and revenge



Imagine THAT - The Blue Boyscout about to KILL someone? My WORD lol.......................

Thankfully his Super Cousin Kara-El was there, after SHE had defeated The Female Furies and then raced to Superman's side to bring him to his senses.

I can post several OTHER clips from his JLU series where, once AGAIN - he acts RECKLESSLY whenever Darkseid shows up.

Deconstructed.

On the BIG SCREEN, with Superman Returns 2006...he FATHERS a child with Lois. Then DC / WB subsequently DROPS this plot line.

Zach Snyder - in MODERN DAYS - has Superman ENGAGED to Lois and then Zach Snyder introduces us to the Dark Superman that I think goes mad once Lois is killed somehow.



So, don't get mad with Zach Snyder when he tries to create a MODERN DAY Superman. His creators / writers have ALREADY DECONSTRUCTED him over the years - showing his HUMAN (and imperfect side).

You ALSO have the rumored Val Zod / Calvin Ellis Superman - I guess to "PLACATE" us Black Folks into feeling included.

I'd rather have Augustus Freeman IV / Icon. At least he's an ORIGINAL being with an ORIGINAL background that is Superman's Equal. He was ALSO created by Black Folks.

Again - don't throw Zach Snyder under the bus for how Superman is viewed today. Us Humans AND WB Media / DC - evidently can't figure out who we want / what we want either lol.

Do we want him to be Black? So we can feel "INCLUDED"?

We don't want Icon? Because his origins are in 1839, as a SLAVE? It that too "Risque" for us Humans to see on the Big Screen?

Zach Snyder gets it, at least to ME. He is only a SMALL symptom of the LARGER conflict we have in society as far as WHAT we want to see.

I understand you like snyder and we can agree to disagree, that being said the flaws and inconsistencies in his films are hard to ignore. As far as the Christopher Reeve movie I don't know how he could violate any kryptonian law as krypton is dead and he is not obligated to repeat the same mistakes they made.

How are you gonna say Alan Moore did, but Zack didn’t? Watchmen and 300 were almost shot for shot remakes of the comics. Zack used the comics as his story boards. In my opinion Zack even unbelievably made Watchmen better than the comic by making the ending come more full circle. I have to believe even Alan Moore after hearing the one change Zack made thought “why didn’t I think if that.” Using Dr Manhattan instead of the giant squid was a stroke of genius. And I have to agree with Controller, original Superman movie deconstructed Superman far more than the Man of Steel. MOS was a very faithful interpretation of Superman existing in the modern world.

Better storyteller than Alan Moore? not on his best day would snyder be able to tell a better story than Moore? Watchman has been the subject of college critical thinking courses. The Giant squid appearing has itself been interpreted in different ways one that i believe is Manhattans' existence opened the doorway to earth being on the radar of the universe, so an interdimensional Giant squid teleported into NY. Think of it as every action has a counter reaction, the moment Manhattan leaves the planet a very real and unstoppable threat appears. I have already pointed out some of the inconsistencies and flaws of MOS

A deconstructed hero is one who is flawed and will either destroy himself or those around him. Look at the Comedian a true pyschopath, ******. murderer, mercenary for hire, not someone who has friends nor would it be smart to turn your back on him.,How about Rorschach? just as psychotic as the Comedian mother was a Prostitute turning tricks in front of him so what do you think his relationship with women would be? The Hero in Mark Hamills' The Black Pearl was a pervert and a peeping tom who by happenstance, stopped a crime while peeping through someones window. Superman getting drunk or getting lois pregnant, or violating some archaic law of an ancient dead race is a insignificant action and none of them compare to character of the 3 I mentioned

I think you're still turning a Blind Eye to Superman's depiction over the last 40 years or so..

Why should Superman / Clark Kent be a Perfect God like you and a few others mention here?

That trope is OLD, in itself.

He is NOT God - this is why he HUMBLED himself and actually WENT TO CHURCH to seek guidance from the Pastor on what to do about Zod hunting him down.



Clark realized that there is only ONE God....and it wasn't him.

I think the Superman that you, Ntwydimela, and a few others I've spoken with on here is likely a "Pleasantville" Superman



I grow wary, to be honest, of folks yearning for a Pleasantville Superman - one that has very little relation to the world around it outside of grabbing kittens from trees, walking old ladies across the street, etc, etc, etc..........

Zach Snyder, like it or not, introduced Clark to the MODERN WORLD...



A world of Terrorist attacks by Lex....among OTHER things.

Zach ALSO introduced Clark / Superman, to bullying (Hello AGAIN, Modern World)





And "Ain't" that last clip SO MODERN? Try to be a Grown Man coming to someone's rescue from a drunk like that and nowadays you'll get a bullet put in you or have a mob waiting for your "Do-Goodness" outside............

This does NOT mean you should sit still and do nothing, but you'd BETTER be prepared for the consequences of "Doing Good".............

I've already harped on Val Zod / Calvin Ellis Superman....which is a DIRECT RESULT of WB / DC Media trying ONCE AGAIN to search for that Magic Formula that will get people hyped ONCE AGAIN about Superman.

I'd suggest to Let it Go, Ntwydimela. Bury it, like Kal-El said to Bruce Wayne in that epic first meeting in BvS -



No one is going to bring back PleasantVille Superman ever again and Val Zod / Calvin Ellis will not work, either.

To ME, anyways - Henry Cavill's Superman is heroic enough and HUMAN enough as is. If ONLY we could get MORE of him rather than Val Zod or Calvin Ellis.

I have no idea what a Pleaseantville Superman is, nor have pushed any type of trope. I stated clearly that Snyder couldn't tell a coherent story to save his life and pointed out several WTF moments from films that he had handlers on and one of his latest in which he was given free reign...he sank. Clark going to ask a Priest what to do is the point for 35yrs his pod sat in a barn and apparently he lacked the intellectual curiosity to investigate it. What modern day alien solar battery wouldn't have a clue as to what his potential would be. Jor El told him exactly what he hoped his sons' purpose would be, it was clear and decisive you know exactly what dialogue between father and son should be. Johnathan Kents' message was confusing and lacked any type of vision for Kal to be decisive he lacked the ability to understand what hope and inspiration clark could give the world

"Pleasantville", Ntwydimela, is a Perfect World with predictable outcomes and is boring. You do the same thing every day and nothing goes wrong.

It is a DREAM world, devoid of reality - thus the Black and White background tones.

This world starts to get COLOR when the two teenagers, played by Toby Mcguire and Reese Witherspoon, get transported there somehow and actually STIR THINGS up....you, know "Modernize" it................

No matter how much "Jor El" tells Kal-El his "Purpose" the alien Jor El had NO CLUE about Earth and its inhabitants. Even his KRYPTONIAN MOM had a MORE REALISTIC view of Us Cavemen (and Women) here on Modern Earth when she stated that -

"He will be an OUTCAST"..............

Even Jor El - in his Ghostly visage when he first met Lois Lane, appeared dismissive of her (and US) and for Good Reason........................

Folks keep harping on Zach's version of Superman but yet CONTINUOUSLY ignore us IMPERFECT Humans.

If Snyders' vision was really profitable to WB they would have kept him but it wasn't, he would have destroyed them with shoddy storylines, shiny eye candy (look there's jason todds suit in the batcave!) yet not a word mentioned of any robin nor any groundwork laid for showing that suit. I imagine that scene blew your mind and Snyder fans began speculating wikk we get a robin in this film possibly nightwing too? NAH Snyder just wanted you to know he looked at death in the family and thought it was a cool image. You should probably look at that scene again because Jor El specifically selected earth, knew of earth they left a ship there remember? He knew what effects the sun would have on kryptonians

A Deconstructed hero doesn’t mean a flawed hero it just means taking general principles of the character and kind of turning it on its head with a reminiscent truth of the character. A deconstructed character could be Lex Luther as a hero instead of a villain. As far as Watchmen go, I'm not sure if you’ve read the comic before, but ozymandas made the squid and faked its arrival, it had nothing to do with an actual alien appearing because Dr. Manhattan left earth. The world comes together because they unite behind a common enemy. Zack brilliantly recognized that the alien feels a little out of place in a comic where the greatest threat is from the hero’s. Who watches the Watchmen? Is the motto of the comic and movie, Snyder just keeps that motif throughout the movie instead of letting it get high jacked by a made up Alien. He makes the fear of the hero’s both true and false, which all comes down to a miss placed faith in people that are just as corruptible as any other man, and people with power being the most corrupted. As the old adage goes “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

Zach Snyder's "Vision" wasn't profitable because "Us Americans" and the "Modern World" at large don't know what we want "Superman" to represent.

How Shoddy of it for WB / DC Media to throw him under the bus for that.

I've already hashed and re-hashed this.

The problem is "US"..................

You have The Woke Movie Industry about to shove Calvin Ellis / Val Zod down our throats....some will INDEED eat it like nectar from a Honey Bee.

For ME such a taste WILL BE BITTER, especially when there are other more worthy "Supermen" out there like Augustus Freeman IV / Icon



Created by Black Folks like ME.

Wake me up, Ntwymidela, when WB Media / DC decides to leave Zach Snyder (and his WORK) alone, give him MORE Projects and movies to work on and WHEN / IF they decide to bring something ORIGINAL like Icon to the Big Screen.

Until then I'll be channeling my inner Michigan J Frog

A deconstructed hero is an examination of a flawed heros' life experiences, what led them down the path he/she is on, what motivates them to see things through to the end. The readers ultimately decide if the character really believes in their mission or not. If I didn't read the book which by the way is the canon of the Watchmen universe not Snyders interpretation then I wouldn' tknow who the characters are. I also said that the book has been used as the basis in college CRITICAL THINKING courses which also preceeded Snyders' interpretation of the canon material. Do you understand the nature of critical thinking courses in college?

Umm...yes...I learned critical thinking in College recently AND got crash courses of it DAILY in the U.S. Navy



So that's that.

Please tell me -

Why - if we placed 1000 Comic Book fans in a room, of various ethnicities, religions, races, creeds, etc - asked them what "Superman" meant to THEM I am certain you'd probably get about 700 different answers.

Some would say "Mom"....some would say "Dad".....some would say "Christopher Reeve".....some would say "Henry Cavill".......some would say Police Officers...Fire Responders....EMTs.....teachers....politicians....their Pastors....the Military.......

Certainly, I'd guess that some would give MANY different iterations of the "Comic Book" Superman.................

The remaining "300" wouldn't answer because they wouldn't even KNOW...........and wouldn't care.

The MINUTE we stop looking for a "Created Man-God to come save us all".........the better off we'll BE.

Thank you, Zach Snyder.



Thank you for creating a Being that is IMPERFECT but HEROIC.

Thank you for One-Shotting AquaMan - who didn't even want to revive you. I love Jason Momoa's Aquaman but he was a bit of a jerk towards Superman while dead.

Thank you for Out-Quicking The Flash of all people, showing your greatness.

Thank you for NOT taking apart Cyborg - which he probably could have if he was TOTALLY out of his mind.

Thank you for putting Steppenwolf in his place.

About the ONLY issue I have with his fight scene with his Super Friends is that Wonder Woman should've been able to put up more of a FIGHT against him....she WAS a bit nerfed from different versions of WW I've seen.

FINALLY - thank you for being YOU



in all of your Kryptonian Greatness. Blue and Red is OLD.

I'm personally PLEASED with Zach's work. Hope to see MORE of it.

My response was to your fellow Snyderfan but whatever. You served in the military? Tell me then what was your rank and job?

I was an Operations Specialist First Class.

My "Official" job was to Process, Display, Disseminate and Collect combat information.

Congratulations on taking critical thinking in college, it’s a lost skill among the youth today. I hope you had a good professor, or it might have all been pointless for you otherwise. All of our arguments have been reason and logic based. We have not resorted to name calling or defaulted to emotional feelings for our arguments. Watchmen being the basis of a critical thinking class is irrelevant to the question if Zack Snyder retold the story well. Translating comic characters to the big screen can be tricky if it’s not done well, it will look like a big joke instead of a realistic movie. For instance, 1990s Captain America movie verses the recent Captain America movies. Zack manages to do this transition better than anyone I have ever seen. The typical director will take the side of caution and keep the characters in darker colors like X-men or Keaton and Nolan Batman. Zack however will take panels straight from the comic and put in the movie, but because of his style and story this transition doesn’t seem out of place. The Watchman story by Snyder is extremely true to the original story. You can almost point to every panel from the comic to the movie. The only comic adaption more true to its original comic was Zack Snyder’s 300 which doesn’t seem to divert at all from the comic. So for me, you can make an argument against the end of Snyder’s Watchmen because it is different than the comic, and I can understand why that would make people mad, but generally speaking his vision is very honest to the original and he pays homage to that original material by being so true to the story.

Regarding your comments about Robin in BvS. Zack said in an interview that the dead Robin is Dick Grayson not Jason Todd just so you know. The use of the suit was used to show where Batman is in this stage of his life. His parents are dead his adopted son is dead, he’s been nothing but beaten up by the world and he’s still fighting, but he’s becoming darker and more cynical of the world. This reflects what happens in the comics also after Jason Todd dies. In the comics Batman starts becoming more hopeful after he recruits Tim Drake, and he starts to move on. So the movie is showing he is in this dark place and hasn’t moved on, but instead of Tim giving him hope it’s Superman that eventually gives him hope and pulls him from this darkness. Now if you are a huge Robin or Red Hood fan I can understand your frustration with realizing you are not gonna see your favorite characters on the big screen with this iteration of the Justice League. But it’s a long road to get from Robin to Red Hood and with the introduction of so many big name hero’s into the DC universe I can understand pushing past it in order to get where he wants his story. In some ways I think getting Robin successfully to the big screen can be tricker than getting Aquaman there. Anyway my point is that the Robin suit wasn’t just some throw away Easter egg, it was used to convey a story and give you incite on the mind of Batman at the time.

September 7th, Baby Bubba.