Zack Snyder's Justice League

Discussion in 'Joker’s Funhouse (Off Topic)' started by Fatal Star, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. Random Mind Dedicated Player


    Don't get me wrong, I know why Superman had to kill Zod in the Man of Steel and the only way to really avoid it would be to change the entire story. I wish they would have given him access to the Phantom Zone so that Superman could have sent Zod and his minions back, that way, no killing. There is a reason Superman is called a boy scout, and for Snyder to bring Superman down to us regular humans' level, is to do Superman a grave injustice. Superman is the shining beacon of goodness. There is a reason DCUO isn't allowed to give us pitiful gamers the Superman emblem.

    As for Superman 3, I wasn't a fan of that one although the fight between Drunk Superman and Clark Kent was kinda fun.

    In regards to Doomsday, I only mentioned that scenario as an way to avoid the Zod connection and the "Martha" solution. You could have obviously had scenes showing Doomsday being a failed Darkseid experiment for example and Darkseid imprisioning Doomsday in a meteor and launching him into space, ultimately landing on Earth. Maybe this happened before there was a Metropolis. Again, it all comes down to the story and what story you want to tell. I am a fan of Doomsday and this was not a good representation of Doomsday. Ultimately, Zach Snyder needed something to bring in Wonder Woman and to kill Superman, so hey why not a hastily slapped together Doomsday? Doomsday is a really good character that deserved more than being a plot device. Because DC needed its Justice League fast, Doomsday got screwed over. In my opinion, Doomsday would have been a lot better villain for a Justice League team-up than Steppenwolf, and screenwriters could have thrown in a connection to Darkseid if they still wanted to.

    As to your last point, I don't know what an expanded Joss Whedon Justice League would look like if he was able to make one, just like people don't know what a 2hr Zach Snyder Justice League would look like. That is why I stated in my first post that to make a straight up comparison of Joss Whedon's League to the Snyder Cut is unfair to Joss Whedon. A 2hr long Zach Snyder version of Justice League released in 2017 would not be the same as the Snyder Cut fans saw. Don't get me wrong it may still have been better than Whedon's version, but it would not have been as good as the Snyder Cut.
    • Like x 2
  2. stärnbock Devoted Player

    the snyder cut brought me back to the game, after i was stuck in limbo for yeahrs ^^
    • Like x 1
  3. Controller Devoted Player

    I fully get your meaning with "Boy Scout" Superman. I think that's part of the reason for the negative blowback with him in his MoS movie. I also recall some here saying that Zach Snyder did not intend - in his Snyderverse, for his heroes to be perfect.

    But I really believe that Zach would've been betraying fans - and especially CANON - by having a 1950s Superman

    [IMG]

    .....that was polite all the time, rescued kittens from trees and did the right things ALL the time.

    Ever since the 80s classic Superman movies we've seen Superman drunk. In the comics and in his Superman The Animated Series we've seen him mind-controlled by Darkseid and Granny Goodness, seen him nearly kill Darkseid in revenge for his shocking, cold-blooded and senseless murder of Police Detective Dan Turpin.

    What.......you mean Superman was going to actually KILL Darkseid? Sure was......



    Watch the end of that epic video....he was going to follow the severely wounded Darkseid and finish the job - at least until his Super Cousin Kara stopped him.

    Also - look at Superman's EYES around 3:33. That is bloodlust, my friend. When have we EVER seen Superman's eyes in Animation? Saw it then and ALSO when he realized that no matter WHAT he did to Darkseid his followers would NEVER betray him.

    This grudge carries on many years later into Justice League Unlimited, even getting Batman to call him out on it



    Irrational Superman almost knocks the Watchtower out of orbit in his senseless anger towards Darkseid. Justified? Perhaps. Irrational and dangerous? You betcha.

    He almost gets himself killed - AGAIN - dealing with Darkseid



    And in his senseless anger he also hurts his close friend Batman.

    I really believe that Zach Snyder gets it with DC Heroes and villains. And as much as I was shocked to see him take Zod's life (and I can imagine some parents with their small children were, too), I really didn't see any other way out with this ending.

    As you stated - he probably would've had to REWRITE the entire movie, which I don't believe WB was going to allow. And I don't know how much leeway they would've given Joss Whedon, either.

    BOTH of them were constrained to just TWO HOURS....so sad and unfair. Marvel allowed for PLENTY of character development. And with Zach he had the unfortunate tragedy, so that's that.....cutting right into the Justice League movie and throwing things in disarray.

    As for the Dark tones you mentioned we ALSO have to remember that he DID get a Military Funeral



    and even got one in the JLU series



    Goodness even that shrine at the end looks AWFULLY familiar.....

    So even with his imperfections I think in the world of DC he's been portrayed very favorably in spite of his faults. As for us fans Zach needed to produce an imperfect Superman but yet one that EVERYONE looked up to, regardless.

    I personally believe Zach succeeded towards that end.

    Here's hoping that Henry Cavill's Superman gets ANOTHER movie and further character development. I wish ALL of Zach's JL would've gotten movies by now - developed with the SAME CARE afforded Marvel's epic movie time line.

    I love WB's stuff but they need to have coherent vision with these characters.
    • Like x 1
  4. Random Mind Dedicated Player


    When I say a Boy Scout Superman I'm not talking George Reeves' Superman, I am simply referring to a Superman who will try to save a villain before murdering him. I'm a huge fan of The Superman Animated Series and the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited Series, so I have seen the episodes you've described. Despite all the anger and hatred towards Darkseid, he never killed him, yes it is a cartoon so there is 0% chance that he would. However, there is a big difference between anger/hate and murder. Despite everything that occurred in those cartoons, they're was always some plot device that stopped Superman going too far, which is something that should have happened in the Man of Steel.

    Perhaps Zach Snyder was going for shock value because there have been plenty of comic book films that have towed that close-but-not-too-far line and been great films. Yes, you see the conflict in Superman before killing Zod, he didn't Justice Lord him or anything, but surely they could have written an ending that didn't involve killing Zod. Thor could have decapitated Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War and boom story done and no one probably would have felt bad for him doing it. But no, the snap happened and we got Avengers: End Game (not as great as Infinity War), the highest grossing movie ever.

    Maybe Zach Snyder just likes the violence, because even his Batman character was not really Batman. If you compare the Batman in The Christopher Nolan version vs. Zach Snyder, despite everything Ra's Al Ghul, Joker and Bane did to Nolan's Batman, he didn't kill any of them, whereas Snyder's Batman was mowing down low level criminals with machine guns in Batman vs. Superman. So, as I mentioned previously, Snyder's Batman felt like Thomas Wayne versus Bruce Wayne.

    I guess my point is, Superman didn't have to save kittens to be Superman but surely Zach Snyder could have written an ending that didn't involve Superman killing Zod. The Phantom Zone, maybe attaching Zod to a meteor and hurling him into a black hole, something. For all the violence in Superman and Justice Animated Series, Superman didn't kill anyone but it was still a great Superman, I still remember Superman dressing up as Batman and fighting Bane ("what... he's been working out" lol).

    No matter what, I did enjoy Henry Cavill as Superman, it is a shame we won't see more of him as Superman, because I think he truly enjoyed being Superman.
    • Like x 3
  5. Controller Devoted Player

    I really wonder - in reference to "whether Kal-Ell would've killed Dakrseid on Apokolips" .I see your point RM but when he started FOLLOWING him I really wonder.....

    If we continue this plot line I really don't think Supes was going to have Tea and Crumpets with wounded Darkseid OR his followers.

    And as for "crossing the line" DC Animated Films already did that



    ...by having Darkseid murder Dan Turpin like he did. This horrific act was WAAY back like 30 years ago in the Animated Series. This is what set Superman on his sometimes irrational acts when dealing with Darkseid - one that is current even to this DAY.

    Fast forward to MoS and OTHER DC movies? I think Zach TRIED to portray THIS Superman with the Flashpoint episode scene.....but instead of Police Inspector Dan Turpin being the catalyst it's Lois Lane......

    "No matter how "GOOD" we are - what is a TRIGGER that could set us off?" Even a being like Superman?

    Don't forget that ALREADY in these three movies we've had Young Clark bullied....we've had him have to HIDE his powers and let his Earth Dad die to keep his secret....we've had OLDER Clark bullied, in the Bar scene.

    We've had him suckered by Lex into a Terrorist Act with the "Granny's Peach Tea" scene.....horrific scene but SO LEX to try and frame that on Superman...

    In these movies - REAL CURRENT DAY-LIKE - I think Zach did a GREAT job showing just how he could've been received on Earth - if Kal-El landed among us RIGHT NOW in Real Life.

    Personally I think Kal would leave Earth if he could, to be honest.

    Kal-El - whether we want to accept it or not - IS a beacon of Hope BUT we MUST frame him in CURRENT TIMES. I think that's what Zach tried to do and IMO he did a fine job.
    • Like x 1
  6. Controller Devoted Player

  7. Controller Devoted Player

  8. Controller Devoted Player

  9. DCUO Post Loyal Player



    Seems like the right place for this.
  10. Controller Devoted Player

    Outside of "Martha" being both Bruce Wayne's AND Clark Kent's earthly mom I see zero correlation in that video being posted in this thread.

    Looks like an advertisement for an upcoming XBOX One / PS5 video game - a horror theme, perhaps?

    I ask "What correlation do you see, DCUO Post"?

    I truly don't believe I've missed anything after watching this video twice, now....but you are free to attempt to prove me wrong.
  11. Critical Massacre Committed Player

    I believe this person is trying to troll the Batman vs Superman Martha moment. I don’t understand why people dislike that moment so much. They’d rather have Batman say that his purpose in life is to kill Superman then suddenly change his mind last moment for no reason like a Saturday morning cartoon Batman. Because, you know, whenBatman sets his mind to something he always half ***** it and doesn’t finish through. Evoking his dead mothers name is probably the only thing that could have shaken Batman from his mission.
    • Like x 1
  12. Controller Devoted Player

    If you're correct, then coming from "DCUO POST" such a troll attempt would be - how should I say this - "Beneath Him or Her"....

    The funny thing here is that for those who call the Pro-Zach Snyder fans "Out there" there are EQUALLY as many people on the OTHER side, lol.

    The troubling thing with the "Anti-Snyder" movement is that there are those in "High Places" that don't like Zach Snyder. Hopefully this merger with Discovery will Clean House.

    God I hope so.
    • Like x 1
  13. Critical Massacre Committed Player

    Yeah these ppl at WB are idiots. The Snyder Cut has had to have blown away all expectations and made them a ton of money. They literally have the franchise they’ve always wanted but because it shows how incompetent they are, they are trying to tank it. From the opportunistic way they took advantage of the death of Snyder’s daughter to the cover up of Joss Whedon’s horrendous display on set, these ppl are some of the most unethical ppl I’ve ever heard about. It was just bad decision after bad decision and yet no one was really fired. I mean even the decision to release the Snyder cut without the possibility of recanonizing the movie was stupid. They really thought it would just bomb,I guess,and just prove themselves right. They didn’t even consider it might be a hit and they’d need to alter course again. I really thought after the Snyder’s cut success the first week they would announce justice league 2 to take advantage of all that momentum. There’s a few high ranking ppl there that are tanking the company’s profits so they can hold on to their jobs, and their own bosses can’t even see it. I think eventually it will be undeniable and someone higher up with common sense will start firing ppl and getting this thing back on track.
    • Like x 1
  14. Controller Devoted Player

    As crazy as it sounds it would NOT surprise me in THE LEAST if WB Execs are trying to throw Zach Snyder under the bus

    [IMG]

    ...which SHOULD upset / anger Justice League fans ALL OVER THE WORLD but even HERE ON DCUO Forums we're divided about The Snyder cut, lol.

    Even the most ardent Anti-Snyder SHOULD be able to realize that The Snyder Cut is a LOT better than 2017 JL but again even HERE folks will offer all sorts of POVs to justify hating it.

    I mean - DO WE ALL WANT DC Movies to continue Red Skulling?



    I know "I" don't, but even some fans are confused as to what they want from Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman and the like.

    Some want Supes to be all Sunny like Shazam movie was...I've given solid reasoning as to WHY perhaps Zach chose not to go that route but I cannot change folk's minds.

    I just hope that Mr. Zavlav

    [IMG]

    ...comes in, cleans house, and give Zach Snyder room to CREATE....and GIVE him the RESOURCES to DO SO.....

    I simply want DC Movies to be AS GOOD AS MARVELS.......Aquaman, WW and Shazam are....and "I" and some others believe The Snyder Cut is - but even with THAT there is "Us Verses Them" with the fans....

    It is as if some DC Fans "WANT" DC movies to fail out of spite. You don't see that with Marvel Fans.
  15. Critical Massacre Committed Player

    I know what you mean. We were finally getting some quality DC movies and ppl were like “no I want Christian Bale Batman or none at all”. And I guess that’s the main problem compared to Marvel. Everyone knows Batman and Superman and has their personal take on the character they like because they have been around forever. Where as this was Iron Mans first iteration outside of the comics and they nailed it, partly because no one had preconceived notions of who he had to be. Marvel might start running into some of these problems when they introduce the new Wolverine and Xmen, but honestly ppl are so invested in the franchise that Marvel will be able to power through it until the new versions get accepted. This is why WW and Aquaman did so well, because these were their first true theatrical appearances. If they had just done a better job with GL we’d of had a franchise started back when it came out. I think WB also has a critic management issue. Disney owns an abundance of critics that are paid to like and hate what Disney tells them to. If you’re investing a billions dollars into a movie then you have got to keep the negative reviews in check. Regardless of the critics though, it still has to be a good movie worth watching again and again.

    As far as criticism of Snyder movies, I can get why someone dislikes the Martha moment or Batman and Superman killing, but dude those Zack Snyder actions sequences just blow away everything that has ever existed before it. Superman s fight with Zod, Batman’s rescue of Martha, WW no mans land, I could go on and on. Action sequences is one of the main reasons you rewatch a movie, and Zack kills it every time. Marvel has good action but they have never made a moment that holds up to Snyder’s action sequences. Ppl that hate the movie should at least be like “that movie was stupid but damn those fights kicked a$$.” It’s gonna be hard going back to the old action style of just watching Batman do karate after seeing what Zack as done.
    • Like x 1
  16. Controller Devoted Player

  17. Controller Devoted Player

  18. Controller Devoted Player

  19. willflynne 10000 Post Club


    Because it didn't work. Had it worked, there wouldn't be the trolling or dislike of that moment in the film.

    It's intent versus execution. You can see what Snyder was going for in that moment, as he's not all that subtle at times in trying to deliver his themes. But even with knowing what the intent of that scene was, if it doesn't get executed well it's all for naught. That really shouldn't happen with what is supposed to be one of the big dramatic moments in the film, but that's what we got.
  20. willflynne 10000 Post Club


    I don't think Superman films should be like Shazam because Shazam is basically "Big" done as a super hero story and that's not Superman.

    A Superman film should be true to the characters (I say characters because Clark and Superman are best played differently). Not exactly like the comics or any particular source material as I know some things have to be adapted or changed to fit going into a new narrative medium. It's why the only Potter film I think missed the mark was Order of the Phoenix because while they hit a lot of the points from the book well they really didn't translate Harry well, and that was essential to the story. But they have to get the basics right.

    Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam all were well received by fans because they got the characters right and they made decent films to boot. And from the sounds of things The Suicide Squad is going to be joining those ranks in short order. But the fact that there's disagreement among the fans about Snyder's work means Snyder didn't accomplish at least one of those two criteria and there are some who would say he failed at both.

    Snyder's had ample time and money to create, and if he had gotten the same kind of unified support that we see for the Marvel films there might be an argument to be made for letting him continue. But it's just not there.

    I want there to be good DC films. I just think that's best done with Snyder being kept away from things because I don't think he gets it.