Work In Progress: Weapon Mastery (Updated)

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Spytle, Feb 26, 2014.

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  1. Revoemag Committed Player

    Can't say it better myself...
    • Like x 1
  2. TrueOlympus New Player

    I think the problem with just keeping it as a crit buff is that, in all the time you were wasting doing the un-clippable WM combo, you could have done the same exact thing the WM accomplished in a shorter time. Two recharge dumps Vs One crit recharge dump, really. I'd be better of just doing the recharge how I always do it.
  3. TrueOlympus New Player

    I am quoting this so it won't get lost in the wave. This is a great idea. I personally don't find it unfair that healers have so many ways to give heals yet trolls have 2 and half.
    • Like x 2
  4. TrueOlympus New Player

    my goodness. I messed up on that above post. I do think its UNfair.
  5. The Net is Decaying New Player

    Amusingly I have echoed the sentiment of negating the debuffs for support roles for almost a year now, the usually follow up argument is "Then their would be no point in the DPS role" to which my rebuttal was "No role but damage gets those percentage buffs per power use, it's that which truly pushes their damage output to the millions more so than a lack of damage debuff for using a role, for proof see Control Role" At the end of the day the issue here is their trying so hard to fix the issue of people complaining about Healers, Controllers, and tanks having "Too much DPS"((I mean this as in their Damage output is too high in a raid total, not that a power does too much total damage, and the taboo that a healer doing 400 thousand damage makes them a liability regardless they kept the team alive)) I can't count how many times((I'm not T5 yet)) that in T1-4 raids, that I had well over 900 thousand heals with a 2nd healer in getting somewhere close to me((ether I'd be 50 thousand more or 50 thousand less)) and they say "Your doing too much damage, start healing more" because a team mate went down, when they were out of both of our healing ranges. On USPS I played with a group of friends, and made it to T4 when their was no T5.((god that was so long ago...)) when their was no Celestial, and I was a Sorcery Healer, using Fury instead of Watcher, and was a Healer Hybrid, and no, never complaints, I just did damage till I saw someones health go down, then recasted a HoT + a hard heal, and would recast hard heals and HoTs here and there in mobs, while occasionally dropping a mortar, I find healers, and trolls whom aren't just feeders more beneficial than a healer who at the end of a raid, has 300 thousand less DPS than the lowest DPS guy...
  6. Greenman_x Steadfast Player

    Thanks

    I really just view this as their best option to "revamp" the controller role...They WILL be adding weapon mastery buffs to weapons for support roles and the controller role is in need of attention, so why not just kill 2 birds with 1 stone?

    Like I said, make it so you get ticks of about 50-75 power for 5 seconds, increase the cooldown on instant power to 4-5 seconds and there you go...Controllers have a new way to give power that isnt over doing it and it rewards us for actually performing weapon combos (I rarely get off more than 2 taps currently)

    PLUS DPS now have a way to work around having less power (as a result of a longer cooldown on instant power) with the weapon mastery combos

    In 1 big swoop you bring back the effectiveness of weapons, you provide controllers with a new way to give power and make people WANT to use weapon mastery combos
    • Like x 2
  7. CCBatson Dedicated Player

    I have mixed feelings about the Weapon Mastery concept in general. I read the first thread with a degree of trepidation; and then when it closed and this one was started, I had a little more faith that maybe the Devs can help address the skewed and imbalanced focus of the game design on the damage role. However as I read through more and more, it's discouraging to see that there's still a lot of very loud people pushing for damage dealing to be the mainstay of combat mechanics.

    Threads like this, are becoming more and more commonplace -not because haters gonna hate, but because there's a feeling of resentment from the support players being pushed into irrelevance by community preferences. These preferences did not spring into being fully-formed like Athena from Zeus's brow however, they were created by the demands and poor design choices of some of the previous content. I really hope that the Devs can take some input here and remedy the situation.

    What I observed from this thread so far is that the WM Support Role Bonuses are a good idea, but are not (as presented as of now) substantial enough to make Support Roles attractive or provide enough incentive to continue playing. And unfortunately, there's a rock and a hard place with regard to the WM bonus incentives towards Damage players, because part of the WM concept from what I can gather is to give more wriggle room and incentive towards the animation-driven players, the ones who are not attracted to the massive clip+jump+cancel style of damage dealing. They want to remain competitive.

    However, what we have here is the equivalent of a cook adding more tobasco sauce to cancel out too much salt/MSG in their stew. It's raising the bar higher in favor of one aspect of damage dealing, without doing enough to reduce or 'water down the stew' with some base stock and other ingredients. If there was a way to scale back on damage dealing overall, particularly the exploitative jump-cancel style of play, I'd prefer to do that, but it's nigh-impossible to put the genie back in the bottle now that it's out. So yes, I understand the necessity of tilting the see-saw back for the benefit of the slower and more combo-chain favoring style of play.

    But the Support Roles need MASSIVE bonuses to bring them into balance incentive-wise. I would recommend NOT giving them more primary-stat bonuses though, because that will only increase the 'solo-role' mindset that is already creeping over the game. Rather, give duration-based Immunities, free Damage Mitigation, or synergistic teamwork bonuses that are all scaled and applied to a group the more of a role there is present within the group composition. Perhaps Tanks could provide teamwork benefits of CC Immunities, Trollers provide teamwork benefits of Damage Mitigation, and Healers provide teamwork benefits of Extra Health. Each additional player-role present beyond the first would scale the benefit by a factored multiple, encouraging the 2-2-2-2 composition.

    You (the Devs) need to make it desirable for groups to WANT more support players present, and make it attractive for players to want to play Support roles. Right now the initial ideas presented in the Dev opening brainstorms don't go far enough in my opinion.
    • Like x 4
  8. Deadaed New Player

    Kip Up to Smoke Bomb < Arrow Fling to Smoke Bomb
    Bow Slam to Spin Punch < Bow Slam to Elbow Drop

    Changes that would make bows combs flow better.(to me)
  9. Zugtarok New Player

    I was wondering about this too, but we didnt get any answer. But from what we know(of course these are not set in stone yet) it seems to be players will have a disadvantage if refuse to use WM or missing the DLC, especially support roles i think, cause dpses can use clipping as an alternative(and stay competative if lacking DLC or not using WM), but support roles are unable to use any alternatives(this seems unfair to me). .I just hope they can come up with a solution to allowing to stay competative to any kind of roles/players if playing without WM. Personally i dont wanna use WM because of character concept...We would appreciate some input guys!
  10. MugenM422 New Player

    I know this isn't really anything about the buff/debuff but more about a playstyle, just want to get this idea put out there...

    Couldn't we use the WM to flow into a different weapon? i'm not thinking like a continuous stream of final combos, but more a transition? i have a bathirl type character, who mostly uses martial arts, but i'd also like to use dual pistols, and dual wield.

    Now looking at the chart they showed us on the live stream, there is a link that goes through these powers, martial arts knee lift goes into loft shot. now seeing as this is the end of the combo (sort of...)
    Now, would it be possibly to look through my inventory and equip my dual pistols automatically and just make it so that i'm using dual pistols? this would then master into dual wield IF i do the mastery combo sweepshot to Ultra Flurry?

    This would allow for a true weapon mastery where by you would need to know the weapon combos for all weapons in you inventory, and also intergrate the idea that they stated in the live stream about how huntress or nightwing transition through their weapon attacks?

    I'm sorry if this has already been suggested somewhere else, i kind of jumped quite a lot of it.

    With regards to the bonuses from the power after a weapon mastery, i like the idea that it would crit whatever power you put on the end, whether that be a Power Dump or a group heal, or anything like that (imagine a critical supercharge...)

    Thanks for reading
  11. Warlan New Player

    I've said the same thing but I feel like it's not getting enough traction.
    Whether you get ticks or not isn't a big deal, the point is it should be able to replace what the power dump powers are doing (defib/recharge/etc.) while allowing us to build up our combos and do a stun or debuff power at the end.

    Weapon mastery combos>CC power + gives power back.
    Or
    Weapon mastery combos>debuff power + gives power back.
    Or
    Weapon mastery combos>group shield power + gives power back.

    That should fix our role as long as the giving power back is as generous as spamming tap tap defib, tap tap defib...
  12. The BlackDragon Well-Known Player

    Cool they separated the discussions further in the balance thread.
    Hopefully this will make it easier for devs to pay attention to each aspect of the combat changes and ofc to get them to chime in in this thread as well :)
  13. Zugtarok New Player

    That would be nice.
  14. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Ok lets draw up a outline for the problem that people are having.

    Controllers ability to give power is suppose to be relieved by new WM and new combat changes and assume JC will be removed completely.

    Here are some questions that where brought up in gotham city-

    Given current T1 dps gear has better precision and might stats than 90lvl support role gear. How much will weapon mastery boost support roles damage out?

    If controllers and healers give a heal or give power from each WM combo wont that make it OP?

    Healers already have large restoration, wouldnt giving them a resto boost after a WM combo be pointless?

    What are the devs plans for next tier stats for support roles?

    Wont WM give me an unfair advantage to other players who choose not to be legendary or buy DLC10?

    Shouldnt they just get rid of corestrength and remove the damage penalty completely because of movement debuffs?

    Many of these questions are outside of WM, but many are highly related. Also in this thread many of us are struggling to come to terms for a buff for tanks.
  15. NCR RANGER New Player

    How to keep "Unarmed" Characters (Brawling, Shield, Martial Arts) Pure

    Although I am repeating myself slightly (since I can't edit my old post) I'm going to post the most ideal combos for several of the melee weapons that should be seriously considered because not only do they look exponentially better in terms of animation flow, but also in terms of keeping the purity of people's characters. I mean Let's be honest what kind of master martial artist or brawler uses a gun or a giant hammer.

    Alternatively you could also use animations from the movement tree attacks because they also flow much more nicely and look a lot cooler.

    Martial Arts Shield/Staff (acrobatics tree animations also)

    Knee Launch->Downward Smash Combo ending (back flip kick+overhead smash) or Front flip kick (acrobatics but legends speed) or Back Flip Kick or Two footed slam

    Cartwheel Kick-> Handspring Kick (stuns then knocks back) of or Front flip kick (acrobatics but legends speed) or crouching roundhouse attack number four in shield basic combo string.


    Spin Punch -> Acrobatics Back Flip kick much more useful than sweep shot as it clears distance between you and the enemy after they have been knocked down. A Godsend during raid boss fights. Alternatively replace the spin punch with the spinning kicks that the League of assassins, Top and Trickster have.

    Empowered Shuriken-> Overhand throw or Heavy Side Arm Throw (replacing shield texture with enhanced shuriken texture)

    or Shuriken Storm -> Overhand throw or Heavy Side Arm Throw (replacing shield texture with enhanced shuriken texture)


    Brawling Shield/Martial Arts

    Backhand->Spinning Downward Cross or Two Footed Slam or Elbow Drop or Tornado Kick or Spin Punch or Leaping stab

    Haymaker->Two Footed Slam or Elbow Drop or Tornado Kick or Spin Punch

    *Alternatives to Clap->Shuriken Storm*

    Headbutt-> Two Footed Slam or Elbow Drop or Spin Punch or leaping Stab

    Launching Uppercut-> Elbow Drop or Two Footed Slam or Spin Punch



    Shield Martial Arts/Brawling (acrobatics tree animations also)

    Spinning Up smash-> Elbow Drop or Acrobatics Back Flip or Acrobatics Front Flip or Tornado Kick or Twin Fist or Ground Pound or Spin Punch or Smoke Bomb

    Spinning Downward Cross-> Punt or Smoke bomb or Acrobatics Back Flip or Spin Punch or Ground Pound or Knee Launch

    Leaping Stab-> Smoke Bomb or Punt or Acrobatics Back flip or spinning kicks that the League of assassins, Top and Trickster have or Launching Uppercut or Haymaker.

    Heavy Sidearm Throw-> Shuriken Storm or Empowered Shuriken.



    I hope you guys seriously try these combinations just so you can see for yourself how good the frame flow is and how they logically make sense.

    I will Post The rest of the weapons with suggested combos when I get a chance to try them out. I'll also try to post a Mock video soon so you guys can see just how these particular combos are.
  16. Bast10n Committed Player

    ECHO.

    ECHo..

    ECho...

    Echo....

    echo.....

    This thread sure is loosing momentum without any feed back from the Devs.
  17. LoArlequin Well-Known Player

    OK. So I have a new idea for this weapon mastery stuff.

    Lets go with this. The final movement of the wmastery combo applies a power interaction in your enemy. I know its hard to know which one to apply. Easy solution: you apply the first power interaction of the power tree you are specialized in.

    Example. Im a quantum troller and use most of the SPACE tree. So my final move of the wmastery combo applies the gravitation charged power interaction.

    That way, I can loose my Alcubierre Wave damage debuff to chage the enemis in favor of my very own weapon. And use my Singularity defense debuff to achieve a good power interaction. Leaving me with 1 black space in my loadout :) And I can go for a good finishier move like Energy Expulsion or go for the extra health debuff Time Bomb to add a good power to take advantage of the crit window.

    Let me know what you guys think. And of course, think of this for your own powers :D
  18. JuanDvdP New Player

    I would use weapon mastery if it's worth it, as a tank, specially as a fire tank, I need to block, I don't have time to attack, and move around for no reason, If the defense/healing buff is worth it I will definitely use this, otherwise, no. Then again I need 255+ skill points to complete my fire tank build, that also come into play.......
  19. TheMarvel New Player

    :::: chirp ::::

    Hello, Austin … are you receiving?
  20. BLK Well-Known Player

    HEY DEVS
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