Work In Progress: Weapon Mastery (Updated)

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Spytle, Feb 26, 2014.

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  1. ssJoniFoXss Committed Player

    idea for u devs -
    stop listen to ppl in the forum....( ppl who have no idea how to play.../ or choice to not clipping ) - NOT PERSONAL
    this forum is 80 % Complain ppl....( the ppl who really play come here only to the update or new info )
    we dont care about the new combo ( any good player never use full weapon combo ) - Tested
    Example- hard light power Based on the speed and Not on dmg cuz the skill super power dmg are Ridiculous so u Nerff the speed gaming , u kill the power...
    Example 2- u try to balance might with prec right ? LOL with your new Nerff idea prec will be OP and might will be last on button
    WHY? cuz your " WM " is prec dmg...SIMPLE
    ** im a prec base i dont wanna be OP i never care about the number of dmg ( cuz what really metter is how fast u pull out your skill and not how much dmg u do... with the right timming and the right super power skill u will be in top on dmg ....)
    • Like x 3
  2. AlyceKrow New Player

    Some good suggestions. I like the idea of the troller becoming more aggro. As a DPS I am conscious of being careful with my power consumption. I don't like to put too much pressure on the trollers. I use a lot of melee and I will use soders when given a chance to. I would really like more vit, just to be a little more self-sufficient.
    I agree that WM should be more about damage than any other bonuses. It doesn't make a lot of sense otherwise.
    • Like x 3
  3. Bast10n Committed Player

    From a healers perspective.

    A DPS will always be cycling their rotation. Weapon combo - finisher. They will benefit from the finisher 100% of the time because damage is needed every second of game play.

    The way this system is proposed I will be encouraged to cast a heal at the end of a weapon combo whether or not the heal is needed purely to activate the "buff".

    The thing I love about healing is that my gameplay is always in a state of flux and requires me to be engaged and react quickly. Cycling through a rotation is mind numbingly boring and this proposed change to the support class would encourage just that.

    I would prefer each power would have its own weapon mastery effect. There is a reason I am casting "X" power at that time... Not just because I'm at the end of my weapon combo and need to cast something to keep my buff going. Maybe the duration of the HOT is increased. The damage mitigation of the shield is increased. The instant heal is larger/crit.

    I want to cast heals when heals are needed.. Not wasting power to keep a buff active for when those heals are needed later.

    Maybe Jeebie is right. You will reach a point where you have enough Tanking. You have enough healing. You have enough power. But you will never have enough damage. Maybe the solution here is for support roles to get a damage buff from Weapon Mastery. We used to be able to provide support by additional damage. Somewhere along the line we all got put in a bucket.. Tanks can only tank. Healers can only heal. Controllers can only supply power. And Damage roles are the ONLY ones who can do damage.

    By allowing support roles to do more damage through weapon mastery it will encourage the use of more balanced groups.
    It will open the door for players to use support roles in alerts, duos, low end raids instead of Zurg Zurg Zurg.


    I solo healed A&B last night in full Vigilante gear. With Core strength. Modded precision and might. Fully specced into Damage with the Healing innates. I finished the Raid with 400,000 damage and the Top DPS had over 8,000,000....

    Support roles have been marginalized and this is an opportunity to restore the balance.
    • Like x 1
  4. RJxpo60RJ New Player

    Stop this reliance of Trolls for Power....I'd like to see this instead:

    ·Healer Options:
      • Some amount of % Power Cost reduction for a time. (This would allow you to heal more)
      • An extreme power cost reduction for the ability following the WM Combo. (This would make that power cheap)
    ·Tank Options:
      • Some amount of % Power Cost reduction for a time (This would allow you to use powers more)
      • Some amount of % bonus Dominance for a time. (This would boost defense)
      • Secondary tank power specific bonus to the ability following the WM Combo (Varies between fire, ice, earth, and rage)
    ·Controller Options:
      • A power out ability effects ENTIRE team following WM Combo.
      • Some amount of % bonus Dominance for a time. (This will improve CC duration and their personal shields)
      • (not specific to WM but in general)Tie the % of the debuff to the hit counter tiers (base 1-11, 10% 12-26, 12.5% 27-50, 15% 51+, this would allow trolls to actually strive to combo and build power, instead of being told to "just press power out")
    • Like x 2
  5. Kamiboshi New Player


    There should be a synergy between these two posts. The support role system in this game has just been so watered down it's ridiculous. We already have raids cut from 2 tanks two one and now we've cut it even further from 2 healers to one (in most instances). When the game started controllers could out dps dps' and while that is long gone, damage should still be an option in the 'support' spectrum. I really hope the devs stick to their guns and support the damage bonus as I feel players are way more responsible for the bland gameplay raids (primarily) have become.

    I do believe a support based buff should come towards support classes but I do not think this should should be in place of the dps buff but rather in addition. Meaning if the tray ability power is hit in controller stance it should offer a damage buff and a dom buff. So if I hit mass terror after a combo I should get a dom bonus for cc and the crit bonus that goes along with it. Same goes for tanks and healers. As the game is now support classes are only lacking in dps. There is more than enough vitalization, dominance, and restoration to go around. What a tank would need is more or what ever stat can keep them from blocking 80% of a raid and put up some decent damage numbers on the scoreboard. Controllers and Healers too. besides if that happens there is less of a reliance on dps' AND content gets done just as fast or if not faster. In addition the length of PI effects and debuffs should be looked into as well.

    People are also not realizing that they can clip out of a any power with a support power. If a healer does a WM combo and ends it with an offensive power to get a damage and support role bonus there is nothing stopping them from clipping into a heal. This is especially apparent for trolls (which can even be done now, I dont know why it's generally not).
  6. Bast10n Committed Player

    "People are also not realizing that they can clip out of a any power with a support power. If a healer does a WM combo and ends it with an offensive power to get a damage and support role bonus there is nothing stopping them from clipping into a heal. This is especially apparent for trolls (which can even be done now, I dont know why it's generally not)."

    Sorcery doesn't have many healing powers that also cause damage. To make matters worse they typically activate a power interaction that benefits the DOS Role and wipes/overwrites our healing PI. What you are suggesting is not practical for our power set. Atleast in a system that still promotes the use of a solo healer.
  7. Kamiboshi New Player


    You are misreading the post. Your concerns are pretty much the same with any heal class, they're arent that many offensive powers What I'm proposing is a damage and role buff regardless of power used. It wouldn't be necessary for you to use a damage power for you to get the both buffs. To add to that look at the top for the bonuses a healer would get. It says a power reduction for the NEXT power used. So you could do WM Combo> CoP> Rejuve. The Rejuve would clip the CoP with a reduction in power cost and if you had a PI up from CoP it would be (theoretically) doing more damage. It'll free up healers who think that in an imergency they won't get heals off in time or that they might have to spam at the end of a comboThey haven't spoken about how PI would play, especially dot based PI damage so this is just speculation. I didn't think a CoP from a healer wipes a CoP from a DPS I thought they updated that with Sorc n Nature.
  8. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Starting to think this thread needs to be split further into ideas for different roles.
  9. JonnyD New Player

    I'm not sure that would be a good idea because some people are arguing for role-specific buffs while some people are arguing for power-specific buffs/debuffs/effects. Separating the thread into specific roles will kill any contributing discussion on the later completely, since powers will get segregated into roles.



    This is by far one of the best way to exemplify damage as being beneficial to a support role. When you can produce heals from the amount of damage you make, it really makes it that much more important; it would really promote more celest using more than one single combo power--seeing too many loadouts where there's only one combo power and the rest is no different from any other healer: a hit-and-run button push.
  10. Derio 15000 Post Club

    As a celestial healer I could care less about the buff. The damage bonus is good enough especially when McB is up. I would just immediately cast AcB for maximum damage heal ratio.

    However this is speaking from a celestial standpoint, while other healer classes don't have the ability to put forth as much damage. However the question is do the other classes even want to do damage, and a bigger question is how big the stat changes will be for the next tier.
  11. Bast10n Committed Player

    N
    There is a small window of time following a weapon combo that a healer will be able to cast a power. Meaning the likely hood that we will be able to pull off a instant heal will be very remote. That leaves us with HOTs, Shields, and healing spells that also deal damage.

    If there is a damage and role buff it would make the most sense to use a damage power as a finisher (especially if it's a 100% crit). Casting a CoP or Soulwell wouldn't take advantage of the damage bonus and isn't practical to be used since their duration would far surpass the period of the buff.

    The damage powers that heal for Sorcery grant red soul aura and inflict bad karma which only benefit other non healing damaging powers and remove golden soul aura (our heal buff).
  12. Dread Active Player

    I glanced through a few posts and a lot of people are saying healers and controllers have enough restoration and vitalization already, they don't need buffs.

    That may be the case for the current system and tier level but with a changed combat system there may (hopefully) be less clipping. Stats on the next tier equipment may have a different balance than the current. So while team members take more damage from top tier NPCs the restoration of the top tier armor may reflect that balanced system.

    Less clipping may equate to less heals in many cases.

    Less clipping may equate to less power out. Will double PoTs be affected? We'll see.

    So lets not throw out the idea that the roles get boosts to their main stat quite yet.
  13. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Lets see restoration right now can be buffed to be over 7k at 1 given point, using nature(bug form) or sorcery(golden aura) you can easily heal any player who has 12k or higher with only a few powers without clipping and still have more than half your power bar. Meaning T6 would have to buff health to where T5 PVP gear is now inorder to be "balanced" with current gear restoration.

    Not saying we don't want to throw out the idea of boosts. But we would like to throw out the idea of restoration or vit boosts.
  14. NCR RANGER New Player

    So There are much better combo animations for martial arts then the ones that have been chosen.

    I.E. Knee Launch follows up much better with Dual Flurry from Dual Wield.

    Here are some more.

    Knee Launch -> Flip Slash

    Knee Launch -> Spin Chop

    Knee Launch-> Spinning Downward Cross.

    Cartwheel kick -> Two foot slam

    Cartwheel Kick -> Handspring Kick

    All I'm suggesting is that there way better animations that look way cooler to master martial arts with instead of dual pistols and hand blasters.

    Some people would much rather stay true to their character types and would rather have attacks that don't show other weapons. All of the melee weapons flow much better with martial arts than dual pistols and hand blasters.

    You guys should also look into the roundhouse combos from staff as well like the launching roundhouse combo and downward smash combo.


    Also, why hasn't martial arts gotten the spinning kick combo that Top, Trixter, and the League of Assassins have.
  15. NCR RANGER New Player


    Couldn't agree more the handspring and two foot kick from shield are far superior in terms of style and animation flow for not only brawling but martial arts as well.
  16. ACW37162 Loyal Player

    snip.

    The balance is support roles get a support bonus and damage bonus for preforming a weapon mastery combo. There needs to be more encouragement/benfit to running with support roles.

    And contrary to popular belief, DPS is a shared stat, all players can add and should do a portion of damage.
    • Like x 1
  17. tiempo Well-Known Player

    Said it twice already and ill say it again, no buffs, creates to many problems. My suggestion... Put comparable precision and might stats in all support role gear. If a group can kill a boss faster it conserves resources. While keeping the original idea where you get a crit window at the end of the combo.... that way clippers and WMasters can do good dmg. ex. 2 trollers go into raid and deal 450 k and 475 k, ones a clipper and ones a weapon master skill determined the rest but over all balanced.

    The reason I see it this way is because all the other suggestion out there, some real good and some not so, they all have contradictory problems. If we get bonuses at the end of WM combos, its unfair to HL trollers and Celestial healers who already have combos within their powers that help conserve resources and HL is a clipping power, its unfair he cant get bonus. if you keep it how it was first spoiled, you know, without the buffs....well that's why where all here now, discussing away. Unfair to support roles and more dmg for dps'.
    These are all hypothetical numbers but what if you take all the support role gear in the game and raise the numbers on precision and might by 40%. I mean the initial complain was that we don't do enough damage and combos for this to be worthwhile right?
    I believe this will give us enough incentive.
    It wont cost DCUO more memory because the information is already in the system, the will just be switch one number to another. Its a simple solution and sometimes they are the best route to go, And seriously, what support role hear wouldn't be pumped if he was dealing mass damage but was able to still do their job. In the end, as I stated in previous posts, if you can kill a group of adds in 15 seconds instead of 30, that's 15 seconds of resources conserved. its a pseudo buff, you may of not gotten an actual buff, but you wasted 12% less pwr.
    I am interested to see why this wouldn't work? Im not saying this is the fix all, but my point of view is just that, I want to see what you all think?
    • Like x 1
  18. NCR RANGER New Player


    Take a look at my list for martial arts. I totally agree.
  19. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    I hope the Devs are reading this, there have been a lot of good concerns, especially in the last few pages.
    • Like x 1
  20. WildPegasusrs Dedicated Player

    I'm wondering if choosing not to use weapon mastery will be a gameplay disadvantage for players damage wise or if weapon mastery will just be something that will look cool and will have an advantage to confuse opponents.
    Because as it stands right now, even though I like the concept, I do not like being imposed what weapon I should use as it simply won't be in lines with the character I created which would be pretty much as if at the end of a combo Batman would take out a riffle.

    Unless I misunderstood the concept and you are able to do a combo like :
    Staff -> One handed -> Dual Weld -> Brawling -> Two Handed -> Martial Arts (and thus skipping Riffle from the Staff weapon mastery links by moving from chain to chain at the risk of forming an endless combo by going through a loop).


    Otherwise I think allowing to let player choose which weapons to use could be implemented without taking too much resources or time if done as the following :

    - Create a new loadout called Weapon Master with 3 slots available.
    - First slot would be the main equiped weapon and the one to start the combo.
    - Each combo "segment" should have a code variable determining if the end of the segment should be followed by a range or melee segment.
    - Second slot would be the second chosen weapon by the player, and its combo segment would be determined by the previous slot (if it's melee or range).
    - Third and final slot would be the conclusion of the combo with its combo segment also determined by what is in the previous slot (if it's melee or range).

    - Each weapon combo should be divided in 3 segments (a beginning position, a middle position and an ending position). According to the weapon chosen and its place withing the Weapon Mastery loadout, how a segment ends is already determined. Let's take a concrete example:

    Someone would start as Martial Arts in the first segment and that segment ends with an animation considered Melee.
    Next segment s/he wants to put bow in the second slot, the combo segment of the bow will be the Melee one (out of the two available, Melee and Range) and that predetermined Melee segment will end with an animation considered Range.
    Then s/he wants to use Staff as the last part and the combo segment of the staff that will be automatically chosen will be the Range one (still out of the two available).

    It would then just be a matter of taking existing parts of existing combo (or from the new ones if they're new) which should not take considering amount of resource both in human time and even on the ps3.

    This would be a bit the same principle as the "create-a-finisher" function of WWE games in which the player chooses different animation parts to place on different slots of a chain of animation, here it would be less complex but would nonetheless allow more customisation for players in their preferred fighting styles.

    If weapons animation time are evened out and damage is predetermined by the weapon in the first slot, it shouldn't be a game breaker.

    Lastly, in the live stream there was a concern animations may look odd switching between each other akin to styles going through some part. Nonetheless, it should be up to the player to choose if it bothers them or not, just like for styles, if someone wants his or her character to wear a trenchcoat, even though it might go through his or her hair, should that person be forced to wear a T-shirt instead so that it fits perfectly?
    Hopefully, by having segment entry "Melee" and "Range" it should help make the transition between weapons more fluent regardless of which one is chosen.
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