Work In Progress: Weapon Mastery (Updated)

For some reason i can't quote correctly right now, so i'll just copy paste from the original post Spytle made on this topic which i think answers your question

Before I turn it over to Tunso to give you some details on the nuts and bolts, let me go into a few reasons why weapon master isn't one of the following:

Q- Why can’t I just load out two weapons and switch between them?
A - Because it is kind of boring. Plus, you could always do this anyway, and now with armories in the mix, it is even easier. Also, it doesn't make skill points more relevant or offer new ways to spec a character. A weapon would still be a weapon, how you equipped it wasn't going to be bring much to the table.

Q – Why don’t you allow me to wield two existing weapons of my choice simultaneously?
A - Because this just isn't feasible with our system. Shield and one handed are held in the same hand. So to implement a sword and shield we would simply be making a set of new weapon animations. You can imagine the amount of work and memory that would go into trying to support a system like that. It simply isn't sustainable.

I am liking the additions for the Controller role! Kudos to you and the team! This game mechanic is turning out well. Keep up the hard work! Oh and please fix HL controllers damage debuff and pot lol (had to be said!).

Also as a controller the "Some amount of % bonus Dominance for a time. (This will improve CC duration and their personal shields)" sounds awesome out of the two you listed. It'll give controllers more incentive to 'control' adds and boss fights! Yay!

Like I said earlier giving healers a restoration boost would only further encourage solo healing which is basically pushing out another person to play a support role, especially in our community now where having 2 healers in a raid lately has been highly frowned upon. Also making controllers increase vit is only pushing them to be more batteries. My suggestions are

Healer
Completing a WM combo will increase healing crit chance by X percentage for 8 seconds and make next power cost 0 or half the cost

Controller
Completing a WM combo will grant %bonus of Dominance for 8 seconds and make next power cost 0 or half the cost

I feel that weapons should also have similar animation times to instill balance between them, I'm not requesting everything be exactly the same but, weapons with combos that have longer animation times should have higher damage output. In terms of the first hold melee of every weapon, they all should have he same exact animation times, for example, the staff and the hand boasters have really long animation times for their lunges, which is a problem chasing down targets because it takes too long, by the time the animation finishes the target is already out of range again. And all block breakers should have the same animation times as well to I still balance in pvp, just the first block breaker attacks of all weapons

I have something to say about controllers being known as "batteries" for the DPS. Controllers are supposed to be crowd controllers AND power healers. However, the community just seems to think of them as power healers. In my opinion, this is a problem the devs need to fix (not the players). When I play DCUO, my goal is to finish content as fast as possible. I'm sure this is the goal of other players as well. As it stands right now, the fastest way to clear content is to find a controller who will manage the DPSer's power bar and a powerful DPS who will take advantage. If the devs really wanted to fix this problem, they should change the content to where the adds need to be crowd controlled. Right now, I understand why controllers have the label of "batteries". It is more optimal to have a power healing controller than a crowd controlling controller. If it was such a huge problems to the devs, they would fit crowd control into the game by adjusting the content. Right now, nobody needs CC so why have it when you could have a DPS who could burn down an add in seconds? Just my opinion.

I like the idea of WM, but I think it needs a more logical combo system. Some are fine like MA into Pistols but Pulling a giant hammer out of thin air is just weird or shooting a grenade after hitting 1 with a staff.
Thats why I say it could be a phisical embodiment of our power so it is more appealing for some people.
For example, I'm a Nature dude with Brawler. I combo into haymaker, but the weapon is a giant root or woodpiece. (like the style pack)
You could throw in a small effect when the weapon pops up and disappears.
It could be different for every power, like for Fire just a burst of fire and the sword disappers or for Quantum similar like QT, like you just phased a sword here from another dimenson. The possibilities are almost endless.
This way you couldnt tell when the combos end and the powers begin, it would give a very fluid playstyle.
It's getting to worry me that there are no green answers, are you listening guys?

See I personally don't like the MA into pistols for concept reasons for the most part, but to each his own ofc

This is worrying if I'm being honest. Its been a while, and this whole section of the forum is pointless, unless they participate. Some cool ideas have been posted already. This DLC is really gonna be a game changer and its not easy, so lets work together to make it as appealing as possible.

Simple solution:
1. Keep the crits
2. Don't give us bonuses we don't need
3. Want us to care about getting the crit? Put comparable precision and might stats in all existing support role gear.

You don't get a buff when you finish the WM combo but you get the crit, AND since everyone is doing more dmg, they will kill enemies faster, conserving power, heals, and dmg mitigated by support roles.

simply put.. boss x of x alert used to take 7 minutes to kill, now you kill him in 5, 2 minutes of resources conserved, when you look at the real numbers you'll see since boss died quicker, tank took less dmg, healer had to heal less, troller wasted less time powering everyone up, and so on. Its a pseudo buff and everyone gets in the action!
Im a tank and pull, shield, block is boring im pretty sure other tanks will agree, and yeah you can attack and pull some combos off here and there but the dmg is low compared to the 1mill's + that top the charts.

I really think the Dev's are missing the point.
A healer can't heal if he is using his weapon, nor can a troller throw power/CC or a tank taunt/CC. You need to add these not just some boost to the stats but actually Heal, Give Power/CC and Taunt.

As a troller I get about maybe a 5 hit combo before I have to hit the give power button or add CC affects.
As a healer I can't worry about some 10 hit combo or someone just might die between hit 5 and 9.
As a tank if the combo lasts more than 12 seconds the taunt is gone and adds are killing the rest of the party.

as I stated in your first thread
Weapon mastery combos NEED to heal, give power and Taunt for this to be useful in your game. Otherwise it will just be the DPS stance that gets to use them.

It really feels like you don't even know how to play this game at all any more Dev's.

Otherwise I do like it but will not be wasting my sp on these for the support roles but just use them in solos and duos. AKA DPS role

I believe that this is a stupid idea and probably one of the dumbest ideas ever I been a paid member since pretty much the first year the game has been out I started playing this game since october of 2011 and I have many complaints that I been keeping to myself that I have not mentioned yet on this site. I think it is time to put my thoughts into words and also into a video on my gaming channel. For one I find weapon mastery to be a waist of time I am a lantern fan and I play mostly as my yellow, green and red lantern characters. I also have Quantum Controller hero and a Electric healer hero as well I think the weapon mastery thing is stupid because it is point less I would have no need for it since I use my lantern combos more than any thing else I rather have something in the game where yellow and green lantern can create their own Construct in the game or have an option to pick their own construct like If I want to create a hammer construct that would be cool or a shield I should be able to do that it would also be cool if lantern characters could have a construct that shows the green or yellow lantern logo since red lantern powers are different I understand and I really do like their powers a lot or due to rights issues have the lantern controllers create a construct that has the emblem of the mentor they chose when they created their character say like for me my mentor is superman I it would be cool if I had a power that showed the superman logo but in green.


Other complaints I have is that all 5 of my characters are stuck at a CR that is still in the 60's and it pisses me off I want to know how the hell their are other players in the game that can do a lot of damage over me when I have been playing this game for hours over the past 3 years. I have to admit I started playing the game first on PC and in the last year I have been playing on the PS3 now but still I am stuck with my character having a CR that is still in the 60's I spend hours in the game I have been a legendary member for 2 years now first on PC then now on PS3 and I have yet with anyone of my 5 character have been able to do T4 and T5 missions and it upsets me really bad. I also hate the fact that I work so hard in the game to do my best to help out other players when I do 4 person Alerts and 8 Person raids and they kick me out of the missions when I have spent a good 30 minutes or longer in them, because of this it makes it harder for me to bring my CR up in the game. I don't know what I am doing wrong and I wonder as to how the hell players that have not been around as long as I have they have a higher CR than I do and they can do more damage. I know there are certain gear in the game that does certain things but nothing I do in the game makes me strong with the amount of hours that I have spent playing the game I should be if not with all 5 of my character maxed out with my CR at least one of them should have its CR maxed out.

here is a list of all the names of all my characters in the game that I have on the PS3.

Yellow Lantern Controller Villain- Coreplex

Green Lantern Controller Hero - Celadon Lantern

Red Lantern Tank Hero - Magickslider

Quantum Controller Hero - Metallic Theory

Electric Healer Hero - Kinetic Fusion

down below are videos I did showing 4 out of my 5 characters

Well thought out and I agree 100%. I think that if they increase the strength as the combo progresses it will be useful to all roles. If each combo has 5 stages, Healer could be at end of stage 1 you get a 50-75 heal, stage 2 you get 125-150 and so forth. Your heals should be still giving group health when you start so the lower heals at stage 1 and 2 are minimal. Trolls could start at 25% of PoT and grow in 25% increments so you would actually give back more power if you complete the combo on top of PoT but it's defiantly more than recharge. Tank im not sure, it would have to taunt and give mitigation or your open for a knee and a scramble by the group to pick you up.

Why are you guys worrying about 12 hit combos with WM, did u not see the combos spreadsheet,/video. Most weapon mastery combos are 4, 5 and 6 clicks long, with some WM at 3 clicks even, are you telling me that during a raid atm you don't throw in a 4 click combo clipped with a power?
Now you just figure out a WM combos that will trigger the crit hit and X bonus that's 3-4 clicks long and u use that one.. when you cant do anything else

If u been playing for 4 years and ur characters are still in their 60's u should really do more content, and buy t3 gear, or mod t2.5 gear, its not that hard, u can reach cr 70 (will be able to do t4 stuff) with just doing solo and duo content.

If ppl kick u all the time its either cos u dont do ur role, or if dps dont do dmg, personally i never kick ppl out of t2-t4 raids for not being good enough but that is cos i n my m8s can carry them.

Maybe u should check some others YT videos to reach ur potential. Joining a helpful league would deffo help.

And give WM a chance, a rage toon can deffo benefit from it, a hl, not so much unless out of power.

This healer getting heals and troller giving power from weapon combo is exactly what the game does not need. Only thing you are promoting with that is what is already in place and that is solo healers and controllers being batteries.

The whole point of WM is so support roles can become more involved in the damage factor. However it still seems as though you dps want us to be your sidekicks and sit back and fuel your fire.

The point of WM is too promote support roles and prevent power spamming and hope to bring back balanced groups.

At the same time WM will only be crucial depending on new lvl of content and the gear stats that T6 has for support roles.

I rather create my own league I hate playing with different people that don't care to really help me out I rather get with people that actually do their job and not give up on a mission it upsets me when people do not try they leave half the time on the first time they get knocked out like today I was left a lone in a raid and I had no way of getting people to join in to help me.

WM should be the realm of the dedicated DPS. They are the weapon specialists - or some of them are. Healers, Tanks, and Controllers have their own specializations. I have no objection to those roles receiving a small buff when successfully executing a WM combo, but it does need to be small. They will still be getting the damage bonus regardless (They are not interested in the damage bonus? Right, why would they be? But this is WM). The benefits to those roles of using WM need to be simply a slight bonus, not an enticement for all roles to suddenly become /DPSers because it makes them better at healing/trolling/tanking. Let's avoid that road altogether.
What kind of bonus will the DPS be getting? None that I am aware of. Just the extra damage, the crit, if they make the full combo. Well, they could ignore WM and play a clip style instead; it's an alternative style, a style choice, not a excuse for massive buffs.
Giving the kind of buffs to support roles that people have been suggesting would be a disaster. Don't turn WM into JC. It's an alternative to clipping. Awesome. Please keep it like that.

I am curious, if a player not owning the new dlc, will his role(support) suffer because of it? cause it looks like you get support role buffs during wm combos, which is a dps mechanic anyway. So anyone who owns the dlc are gonna be stronger? This doesnt seems be an alternative to me. It looks like to me dpses can be competative by using clipping, so dont have to own the new dlc to stay the same lvl with WM users, but support roles will be less competative against the dlc owners because they cannott preform WM combos and not getting any buffs cause the lacking of wm? Does this mean players will be rejected because they dont have the dlc?

Extra damage is always a good thing, even for support roles. I believe it was JEEBIE who said you can get to a point where you have enough heals, enough power, and enough aggro management but extra dps is always beneficial.. thus, the problem of obsessing over top dps. The solution to me is let support roles do more damage.

For example, Celestial hybrids (combat healer builds) can heal and damage at the same time, focus on healing in tough spots, or just focus on damage in easy areas. Or in games like Tera, tanks are expected to have the minimum amount of aggro management necessary to pull mobs then focus the rest of their mods and abilities on dealing damage.

Extra bonuses for support roles are fine, but I think it's important that WM award extra crit damage for everyone regardless of role. You can even take it one step further by just giving everyone core strength by default.. the very prescence of the mod has already diminished the justifications for role damage penalties.

An even more radical idea is to give non-troller gear more vit so other roles can regen their own power more easily through weapon attacks. Trollers could then become more of a secondary damage-dealing class with an emphasis on debuffs. Perhaps dom could be turned into more of an offensive trait that extends the length of dots instead of stuns. Or if that's all too crazy then just ignore this last paragraph

QQ'ing and promoting your gaming channel do not seem to be the best combo imo ;-)

That aside if u dont want to use WM it's your choice. WM is not ment to be a must use to complete content but a option to make using wepons a viable alternative

I do understand you opinion about constructs and logos ect. but the devs have allready stated many times that this is not a change they will make because the amount of work would be too large and take away to much manpower from other more important stuff

Last but not least it is not dcuo who are to blame if you find it difficult to progress past cr60 that can be done reasonable fast if you grind marks and buy either gear from Central City or T3 gear and mod it with syntetic mods.

As a side note joining a league is imo you best choice because it takes a lot of work making and maintaining a new league and it is at times not fun at all ;-)