Work In Progress: Weapon Mastery (Updated)

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Spytle, Feb 26, 2014.

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  1. Skiwattentotten New Player

    Yes, having more intricate weapon attack strings is a great idea. However, here's a few things that need to be addressed if they are ever to be a successful addition to our offensive repertoire.

    #1: I cannot stress NUMBER 1 enough. The PvP aspects that NPCs use in PvE are simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH as is to advance into a system that utilizes longer weapon combos as a mainstay. There's plenty of threads that point out 1 or 2 glaring issues, but there's really like 5-6, I'll list the main 4.
    + Whacked out feints (fake-outs) with ridiculous counter mechanics that cannot be replicated.
    + Non-intuitive AI, the CPU doesn't take into account what's happening to decide what to do. An example of an AVERAGE level of awareness is blocking when your health's low or assuming your opponent will when theirs' is.
    + Non-combative AI, the CPU is designed to trick you, not to battle you. Sometimes a boss will turn around and block five times in a row without ever throwing an attack. Basically this turns a fight into watching the icon above the enemies' head, which is pretty VERY lame.
    + Farming immunity, the CPU can pick up immunity from ANYONE throwing an attack... often this includes pets.So even if YOU are doing exceptional, the group can easily negate the counters you'd be doing. You think it's annoying NOW when the enemy is constantly immune... this effect will grow with longer weapon attacks.
    #2: Power Usage; regardless of what you've heard, power out is not a true issue. Increasing the lengths of weapon combos is going to lessen the need for power. I'm not COMPLETELY opposed to that idea... but look at the other non-damage roles right now.
    + Tanks practically cannot grow up in today's community. Few will use a tank for anything but T5 raids.
    + Healing was given huge stats, no doubt to help noobs... Few will run 2 healers in a raid anymore.
    Troll is the LAST role you can always have 2 of in a raid without hearing any arguments from anybody. If the new weapon mastery "upgrade" means that just ANY troll can solo raids... we'll be offing yet another role into the unnecessary pile.
    #3: Experience;

    I could wrap this section up in a single paragraph, but I feel an overview is helpful in gaining perspective.
    This is a touchy subject, but let's take a quick look at what DCUO actually has going for it.

    Story; sorry to break it to you, but we're looking at decent. Most player's can't even tell you what's happening in any given instance. Even those who can are begging their controller to skip the cutscenes.

    Graphics; I'll have to give it to 'em on this one. The graphics on this game are pretty solid, even if it is next to impossible to read on a standard definition TV. The 60FPS upgrade is another testament to good graphics being a core of this game.

    Gameplay; This can be broken down soooo many ways... I'll be brief and stick to what's relevant.
    1) Weapon Combos: Not bad, certainly not great. This game will never compete with a true fighting games complexity, nor should it have to because that's not what we're playing. But, plenty of games use the 2 button set up that alternate between each other and holds/taps... Unbalanced weapons add to the mediocrity.
    2) Alternative Offense: In this game, that's your super-powers. The diversity of options, cool animations, and power interactions all help to make this the shining jewel in this whole game. Even if it is an inadvertent inclusion, clipping is what makes this category go from really cool to really cool AND unique by creating another tier of skill.
    3) Other:
    + The camera angles are rarely bad, plenty of other games' have camera angles so bad you'd never think twice about this camera. Although not perfect, it's definitely above-average.
    + Targeting system seems to have gotten a downgrade, very difficult to switch between two targets near each other. So mediocre. A simple addition of a lock-on scroll (at least in PvE) would vastly improve this rating.
    + Movement; the best flight system I've encountered. Acrobatics is really cool. Super-speed is pretty cool too. The only negative thing to movement is the running-backwards glitch associated with acrobatics & super-speed.
    + Online Play; once again... we're looking at decent. Anyone who DCs 5x in a row will argue it sucks, anyone who's made a ton of friends within the community will say it's awesome. Having huge pros AND huge cons puts anything into the average heap.

    AFTER ALL THAT, if you're wondering "what's your point?" Here's your answer:

    There's 3 things people look for in a game; Story, graphics, and gameplay. A game survives when 2 of these 3 are really good. A game fails when 2 of the 3 are less than average. Right now we have average story, great graphics and great gameplay. With the way I broke down gameplay here's it's report card: C+, A+, A, B-, A-, B-. That equates to a B+ average.

    So weapon mastery is doing just this: trying to improve the weapon combos (which IS A GOOD IDEA). Even though the improvement they're making isn't going to make it unique, I think it will improve it through complexity. Take the C+ that it is now and make it a B. That is a good idea.

    That's not the only thing they're doing though, they're nerfing clipping which is a big part of what makes Alternative Offense so great. Take the A+ and knock that down to an A or even an A-. Let's take the shining star we have and take out one of it's bulbs so that I might better see the duller ornament further down.

    We aren't taking about a simple upgrade, we're talking about an exchange. We're talking about averaging. Average is NOT a good thing. Say weapon combat improves to a B+ (the highest you can really give a game using the same system 100 other games are using). That's a whole rating grade improvement. Say nerfing clipping degrades your powers' combat at most to an A-... you'll still be stuck with a B+ average, but now you don't have a shining star anymore, you just have more average.

    #1) The ridiculous CPU AI's PvP mechanics in PvE will become EVEN more annoying with longer weapon combos.

    #2) Trolls will likely become needed less and face problems healers and tanks already do when less power is needed.

    #3) Although advancing the simplistic weapon system is a great idea; keep in mind that the advancement isn't going to create uniqueness. Repressing the power system that IS unique at the moment; will make the system more average. Unfortunately for many game-makers, gamers rarely play a game for years on end if it's just average.

    I could get into more, but these are the main challenges the new weapon-mastery ordeal is facing.

    EDIT: One thing I should point out is that with burst-damage powers your options of effective powers will be inherently reduced. Single target or AoE. I personally believe that the direction this is going will make most DPSing play very similarly. I also don't think that's a good thing.

    I'm sure I missed a thing or two, but I'm not getting paid to do this.
    • Like x 4
  2. oF1RESTARo New Player

    The fact that there is no real manual to explain everything that you can do in this game is frustrating. If you go into the UI and use lock on targeting you can switch targets with the D-pad left and right. this to me was a game changer when tanking so i didn't have to hold the darn L button to lock onto general or trying to target the bot to pull in buff room was awful till someone told me about this. It is not ideal but it works like you hinted at.
    • Like x 2
  3. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Alot of you think WM will define the DPS class. NO depending on what they do with WM, it will determine all classes and HoP will definately change the game completely. The WM buff for support classes needs to be something simple but again not a stat boost or a heal over time, or a instant heal. WM was made to encourage DPS to use their weapon and create an alternative to clipping and to allow support roles to do more damage in content.

    If you have never played as a support role, then how can you even have a say in what boost you think we need? What gives you the right if you havent even played a second in our shoes.
  4. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    Common Sense and logic
  5. Rankkor New Player

    If all powers are the same how does that make it fun ...... Complain all you want im not going to argue with you as you like to report ppl for trolling .... Nuff said..... Balance lol i guess you think each power should be the same lol ... Like i said and so many others have said if dps gets a bonus so should support classes like tank and troll/heal to take your words and quote them "BALANCE" why give dps bonus at all .... One class with bonus but not the others ¿ Yea thats balance lol ..... Good day to you sir
  6. Sore Steadfast Player

    Healers need fun and engaging bonuses for WM combos/powers. What we don't need is the ridiculous resto levels we have right now on our gear.
    • Like x 6
  7. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    That's all I'm trying to say... It's a very unoriginal/uninspired idea to just make the next heal a crit or raise your resto for a few seconds. Most healers have no problem solo healing as it is.
    • Like x 5
  8. Rankkor New Player

    So dps can have a bonus but not any other role is that what your saying pretty one sided dont you think ,like hl or celestial need more burn ? Lol quantum ? Mental lol same could be said about dpsing so dont contradict yourself ... If you want a dps bonus then other roles that dont dps are left out since you like talking about "BALANCE" so much .... Same said about tanking then ? Because we all know they meant a couple of raids for to tanks we just did it with one so where exactly is your point.......

    My point ....
  9. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    Did i say they shouldn't get a bonus? Just saying they need something a bit more original and engaging than "next heal is a crit" or "boost resto for xx amount" when heals are op as is.

    Look bro, I'm a consumer, I plan to buy the DLC. So as a consumer I have the right to post on a work in progress forum stating my demands and requests for a DLC that is a WORK IN PROGRESS. Get off my back
    • Like x 2
  10. Rankkor New Player

    I too am a faithful legendary vet 162 sp 103cr rage tank , i also have a 103cr healer 156sp and i would like crits just like dps gets their insane crits at the end of each rotation ... What do you want a healers bonus to be exactly ? Would you like my nature healer to sprout flowers and look pretty ? If a dps is going to be in a state of getting near 100% crit chance or somthing like that then we should get the same and the same goes for tañks , , not.everyone dps's ..... Thats my point if you dont play support roles well then thats ur loss ...but if their is a very good/op dps then i too want to be an op healer or tank......

    That sir is my point
    • Like x 1
  11. Skiwattentotten New Player

    That's actually almost exactly what I was looking for. Thank you, I'm going to go try this out.
    I concur. I don't think that the DPS boost is something that can't be across the board... it'd be a better boost than the unnecessary resto/crit heal buff proposed.

    While we're on the subject, though; in this game damage correlates adversely with survivability. Healers and tanks have the highest survivability, lowest damage. Since the addition of the core strength mod, the difference in damage between healer, tank & troll has been fairly negligible. I think that ASIDE from the WM stuff, a troll's instant power should give a percentage damage increase (something kind of low... say between 10% & 30%) instead of the static increase it gives now. This would bring into line the damage v survivability correlation that is present virtually everywhere else.
    • Like x 1
  12. Echephyle New Player

    Some of the weapon combinations are awkward. Like shield being paired with two handed and dual pistols. It just makes no sense.
    • Like x 3
  13. Rankkor New Player

    I disagree why me being a healer or tank have to put out dps numbers if three or four dps's cant do the damg as thier role intended they dont have the sp for the content and should stop skipping content just to play end game raids its not all about gear .... Survivability ? Healer heals himself lol wow really , tank has high def ..... Whats next then dps giving themselves power back ? A healer ,troll,tank shouldnt have to worry about dpsing sorry to say .... Thats why they are support roles , why not take aggro away from a tank then ? Give it to the troll since they have high dom and can stun,levitate npcs ... If dps gets crits ? Then other roles want their crits also , i dont want to help you with ur damage it doesnt concern me .... Unless you as a dps are gonna help me with "resto/crits or buffs" or " helping me with def/buff for tank" its one sided all for dpsing ....
  14. The BlackDragon Well-Known Player

    Agreed. Still waiting on devs so we can see whether these are set in stone or not. Hopefully we can give them ideas to make some of these more appealing.
    • Like x 1
  15. Echephyle New Player

    I would like for rifle and handblaster to be paired. It would be perfect for my military-tech themed toon.
  16. Rankkor New Player

    Its somthing i disagree with and since i pay for this game and ive been legendary for over two years i think i have just as much right as anyone else so if you have nuthing constructive to say .....then say nuthing at all ,,,

    He is talking about making other roles have a higher dps percantage and he himself said he doesnt have or use a support role ...i on the other hand have a dps/tank and a dps/healer both over 150sp and i dont agree with putting up numbers for you dps's out there unless your gonna help me with heal crits or help my tank out in some way .... So make sure you know what your commenting on before you post......have a nice day
  17. Dendalus New Player

    Maybe its just me but I just don't really see the point in this. In the forum they were trying to say this will help balance the "competitiveness" of the game. Weapons are purely Prec based and only can go might based with a few powers such as Sorc/Quantum. But how is this gonna help players really? Rage, Light and Cel powers in raids normally just rinse and repeat the same powers over and over and don't normally use a weapon not that I have seen anyway. Maybe HL using rifle after the jump chancel with fan but then its right back into ram, Snap, fan jump rifle. Maybe I am completely wrong and please somebody explain it to me so i would understand it. But lets take Elec powers for a example say we have a Elec dps using Rifle in A&B. Now normally Elec is pure might based and the Wired weapon buff doesn't give might hits to the weapon, so how is the Might dps using multiple Prec weapon attacks going to compete with the HL guy? When you get to Hal Jordon at the end of A&B (villain side) standing next to him for weapon combos is insane. If this is solely ment for Basic alerts and solos, duos etc etc I can kinda get it but once again there is no love for Might users. The game is getting to the point where you are either Prec or Prec/Might. I know i am kinda on a rant but I was a Elec dps after it was nerf so thankfully i never got to be a "God" with the powers but still did rather well being pure might. Near the end of my run as a Elec dps I was noticing that all the Prec dps were so much more damage then I was and i was getting fed up with it. Why is my at the time over 2000 might being beaten by 800 Prec? When I heard rage was a might based power I was so happy cause i was looking for a new might power, then i saw the video of the test runs and saw it isnt might based if anything its might/prec I have a 103 Rage dps now with over 3900 might and close to 1600 prec. I felt it was best cause besides a very few powers Rage is 50/50 Might Prec. Outrage hits might then Prec, Dreadful black hits might then follows Prec so specing into might/prec seemed right but even still you can go pure prec...on a "Might" based power. I kinda lost my train of thought but i guess I am kinda reaching a point and that point is Might should hit just as hard as Prec cause why else have the two types of attacks if Prec is the superior way to dps?
    • Like x 1
  18. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    If it makes you feel any better, I think the whole crit bonus for DPS after doing the WM combo is a pretty bland idea as well. So I'm not just saying DPS should get the bonus, I don't care about that either. The whole bonus after doing a WM idea needs reworking imo.

    I think you're taking what I say wrong, as that I'm against support roles, which is quite the opposite. I'm saying that if they get too much of a bonus, then the demand for support roles will go down drastically. Why pick two trolls, healers or tanks, when WM gives them enough of a boost to solo everything?

    If the devs keep going this route, DLC10 may join "The last laugh" as worst DLC
    • Like x 3
  19. Rankkor New Player

    Im not flaming anyone or insulting anyone so stop taking my words out of context , i am giving the veiw of a healer and tank and its a one sided track right now how is that not insight ? I am saying heals should have somthing to do with heals if they hit the same combo not a damg perct. Crit as im not a dps what is the point unless my crit is gonna be the same as a dps crit .... That is my point im healing and hit my combo and hit for 700 damg big whopp .... Do you see what im trying to say...

    Same goes for tank im a rage tank full 90 and modded do you think i want to see this content in dlc10 come out and give me a higher damg perc. While im tanking 700 or 900 damg crit or whatever it calculates to does not compare to a dps crit so whats the point more burn?

    How would dps's like it if spytle said in dlc10 if you hit your combo and pop that power in the timing window it will give healers a crit chance or trolls a power crit chance or tanks a def buff ?

    I guess that is not insight.
    I guess that is not meant for this thread
    I guess devs only want to hear feedback from dps's

    I guess i made my point ....thanx for your concern , and have a nice day .
    • Like x 1
  20. Rankkor New Player

    I understand vinney not tring to be the bad guy here ....just adding my insight as i like playing my support roles more then dps ...i just dont want a dps bonus added to my tank or healer ya kno... Even if its a small lil bonus as long as it goes to the role ...
    • Like x 1
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