Work In Progress: Hard Light Balance - Updated

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by spord, Mar 17, 2014.

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  1. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    Construct chainsaw glitch. You can see in the video that construct chainsaw lunge does no damage at fairly close range, although the dummy appears to get hit,(does the hit animation) and even makes the sound effect of getting hit. At the end of the video, I use power chainsaw, which is not bugged and registers as a hit.

    The same adjustment that is supposed to happen for construct claws that Drenz posted about, needs to happen for construct chainsaw. The move is bad enough as it is.

    Sorry for the bad quality

    • Like x 2
  2. Crimson Jonni New Player

    This^
    This issue has been around since HL has released and the fact that it is also blockable on the first hit makes it kinda a lose lose
    • Like x 2
  3. krimzonk Committed Player

    At the very least Impact and Light Blast MUST have the Dazed PI. Why? Because the pot and defence debuff move of every other controller powerset HAS a PI...HL on the other hand does not which severely hinders it as we have two measly moves to set up a PI, which in my humble opinion is awful. This thread is about HL balance. By giving Impact, Light Blast and even Ram the Dazed PI, it will go a long way to satisfying players who enjoy using this power.

    And...here is another request...I will not stop saying it until the devs answer this.....Our Group Shielding SC does not reflect back damage like its counterpart in the Mental and Quantum powersets....you MUST change this so that our Group SC reflects back damage.

    Also Whip needs to be changed so that we cannot be blocked/counter and put on our backside until the whole animation of the moves is finished. The range of this debuff move needs to be extended as well. Ram also needs its so called 'dove-tail' reduced drastically as using it after Gu36 is a right pain.
    • Like x 2
  4. Snakey New Player

    I agree that speed was much more fun but GU36 is a fact and I dont think dovetails will change just for HL.
    If they shorten Ram's dovetail, players in each power set will request the same.
    We have to be realistic and see what extra can we get for the loss of speed.

    Irony is I never changed my Sorcery toon to Celestial because their combos gameplay felt slow and now pretty much every combo based power set is Celestial level slow.
  5. dr strangeonline Loyal Player


    I agree speed was more fun. We're not going to see any kind of change to the speed though. Or at least not a noticeable one that would make people happy. The Dev's/Power Designers are clearly standardizing everything with the power sets. All animation times we're standardized and Ram/Impact are not going to go back to Pre GU 36 speed because then they'd have to change it the same for everyone else.

    We should ask for them to alter or change the animation. It does feel clunky and unnatural. In addition Ram>Snap or Ram>Whip combo inputs don't match up very well with the animations cast time. It's the same for Snap>Light Blast. Ram and Snap seem to be the two biggest concerns in that regard.
    • Like x 2
  6. Zim New Player

    HL is terrible atm. I wanted to wait a while and try out a few rotations before I gave my opinion and here is what I found.

    Other than snap trap to fan or grasping hand to fan, there is NO NEED to go into a construct anymore. By doing so it will lead to a DPS loss.

    As a matter of fact this latest update has even MORE slimmed down the usefull rotations for the upper tier content. If you want to run as a dps and do decent damage out what can you use?

    It's weapon mastery weapon mastery and weapon mastery. Get either choppers or spike going to get your dazed effect going and then weapon mastery clip with snap trap combo to fan clip then rinse and repeat. Lets not forget the robot sidekick.

    I think HL needs a decent damage buff other than the one it has, and another group dot that can stack with choppers or spike. I also think the dots after the initial hit for chompers need to be increased.

    Just my opinion, but if this is the new way HL is going to be played then these are some of the changes I think need to happen.

    Going into construct nets a dps loss. HL is presently sub par at best.
    • Like x 1
  7. Zim New Player

    Well the problem now is that it is slow and less damage. In no way do i see HL as more damage now when compared to what other powers can do.
  8. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    Yeah, as far as "dps" damage per second, HL is slower in every way. The slight damage increase that also needs a pi to be applied, is not enough to make up for what they did to HL. The need to constantly apply a PI, further hinders Hard Light's flow and causes it to be even more clunky than the animation changes alone. Our Pi needs to be applied by some of our combo abilities so we can at least have some of our "flow" back.

    Also, our damage is too low. The base damage if HL attacks should be brought up to their current damage with a pi on live, and our pi damage should be increased from their.
  9. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    Side note: anybody notice now that HL has been nerfed and has been brought down to a low-mid tier power, we stopped getting so many haters trying to mess up the revamp like we did prior to gu36.... I guess, mission accomplished, hard light sucks now.
    • Like x 5
  10. denverweise Well-Known Player

    fully agree with vinnie tireshine. at first I thought things seemed more balanced, but that was before I saw the WM applications across all other powers. HL has no chance for a 1 shot pvp hit unlike almost every other power. The ram "dovetail" destroyed the potential of the FFF or FFS combos making them sluggish and slow. And seriously adding another power (inspiration) might boost precision for a short moment but thats adding another step! now I'll have to use inspiration, then daze...and finally I can get on with my sluggish combos having roughly half of my power bar left? the only way I could see this actually helping more than nerfing even more is if the precision hits are extrapolated to deal more base damage. HL has gone from fast, technical, and hard hitting to slow, sluggish and power hungry with even more hunger to come. I cant seem to find anyone that plays HL that puts out good numbers. Hardlight is now a TROLL ONLY POWER
    • Like x 2
  11. KemistiOMG Committed Player

    It doesn't suck at damage, sure if you were good with HL before then the damage is little lower. I'm not complaining about the damage because after GU36 i've got so much QQ off my as*. Now HL is just really boring now that i can't jump around like a rapid squirrel.
  12. PhantomVision New Player

    Light needs damage increase on almost every ability and Hold melee- Claws, WhipTrash and Chainsaw are in dire need of getting boosted.
  13. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    now instead of a "rabid squirl". HL moves like a old broken down robot that's running out of batteries.

    Soooo much more fun!!! /sarcasm
  14. dr strangeonline Loyal Player


    I completely agree on the needing some constructs to apply the Dazed PI. I checked after GU 36 came out and the Dazed PI last 10 seconds. For a gadget user its 15 seconds. They're far less dependant on the PI since only a few powers interact with Dazed. It also breaks the fluid feeling of combat to have to stop and reset the Dazed PI. Our damage without the PI up is very weak. This is especially a problem for controllers. It's harder to fit that power in the loadout and most good controllers try to be smart about their power consumption.

    I've been asking on here for a while for them to include Ram, Impact, Light Blast as powers that can apply the Dazed PI. This will bring the amount of PI applicators we'd have in line with the other controller powersets(something they're trying to achieve(balance)). It would help controllers to keep the PI active as well. With the inclusion of WM none of those would replace Chompers or Spike since a good DPS is still going to try to use the best Might Based AoE power at their disposal for the crit buff. Adding a PI applicator to Ram actually gives DPS a reason to use it since with WM it makes more sense to just go from Snap Trap. Impact, Ram, and Light Blast also currently don't interact with the PI so they would make sense to be applicators.

    The PI should probably work like the debuffs and only apply from power cast. That solves the problem of it being possibly OP. The powers I mentioned would also be brought more in line(have a similar range of utility as other powersets). Every other PoT applies a PI, every other defense debuff does/or capitalizes(the only other finisher that is a debuff applies making Light Blast apply would mirror that utility) as well.

    I don't usually like to think of it as this power does this and I want that too. Each power used to have its own special feel but the dev's are clearly standardizing and making them feel more similar. Because of this(and the changes in GU 36 and coming) I think we need the above mentioned changes added.

    Please Dev's in addition to the changes in GU 38 make Impact, Ram, Light Blast all apply the Dazed power interaction.
    • Like x 2
  15. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    Took the words right out of my mouth. Ram as a pi applicator wouldn't be op since it doesn't do burst damage so doing a ram after a WM combo will still net you a loss in dps. What it will do, is help our overall fluidity and make the power feel more smooth. That and we need some animation changes
    • Like x 1
  16. dr strangeonline Loyal Player


    We would still technically get the crit buff with the initial 1st tick of 2(3) but its lower damage than using chomper/spike. It wouldn't make anyone who was trying to be efficient change but would like your saying help with fluidity of attack. It would also give players more reason to use varied loadouts and combo's. I don't understand why our PI is so short. It seems like an oversight.

    Your so right to bring up the animation changes. I didn't plan or intend to get any animation changes but considering how off the Ram and Snap Trap animation changes feel(especially against the construct combo input times) this seems needed. At least for those two powers.
  17. Crimson Jonni New Player

    "Those guys" are moving on to Nature, Rage, Ice and celestial now. The saddest part is, these are the same people you see in every thread saying something is op. I can understand there might be a specific move that is immensely broken like outrage in the past, but condemning the powerset as a whole is too much.
    • Like x 3
  18. Crimson Jonni New Player

    The thing that upsets me the most is the fact that it seems like the people who proclaimed that a certain power is op always focus on a select few abilities, have completely biased knowledge, are ignorant to any and all drawbacks, and the worst part about it seems to be the fact that they are the ones listened too

    Ive written a plethora of essays on How in the past HL had to rely on JC which ultimately was a crutch, but that crutch was only abused because the powerset as a whole was flawed along with earth and electricity as those were the first 3 dlc powers. After those 3 every subsequent power seemed to be updated much more in depth and frequently, which is why people didnt like these older powers. On the topic of hl, a precisiom based power with every combo being interruptable AND doing pathetic damage wise coupled with the high as hell powercost, it definitely needed work. But none of the players who havent experienced this power at all understand nor do they care to. They neglect the fact that after we lost speed, some compensation was made to make it viable. What they see is " HL is OP, JC is op, These combos hit too hard, you can infinitely loop combos nerf this" not once do they ever constructively come up with reasons why the feel that way.

    They're doing the same with rage. They dont understand how its a different power with a different mechanic and they want beserk nerfed even though its a different type of power. If i cast Strafing Run on my HL toon all i do is stand back and watch the fireworks. When you use berserk, you are the fire work, and you have to do as much as you can before it ends. The same with rage crash, if someone knocks you down you take ALL of the damage. Doesnt matter if you use outrage, because if it gets blocked you're going down. Use dB and getlunged, you're going down. Idk why people dont understand.
    These people are the same that say weapon mastery is OP even tho its doing a good job as a temporary power balancer. These are the guys that want everything to get worse instead of finding ways to improve everything and the one thing they have in common is that they always seem to hide behind the balance excuse, and if anyone responds to them in a constructive way its either completely ignored and the player shouting nerf picks a weaker argument to attack, downvoted for no reason, or the nerf happy player proceeds to call him a QQ'er. This is getting ridiculous
    • Like x 7
  19. Vinny Tireshine New Player

    Even after gu36 animation changes. Earth and electricity got some of their powers speeded up. It's very possible that we may get some animation time changes as well. *fingers crossed*
  20. dr strangeonline Loyal Player


    Ya I suppose its possible it just would still have to fit that 1 to 1.2 second baseline threshold. I don't think that's really what players are looking for. Ram Pre GU 36 was around a .5 second cast time. Even if it goes down to 1 second it's still going to be twice as long(and it may already be at that. I haven't timed it). And that's for the power cast. Its a 1.35 cast time for construct combo's.

    I would like to see them bring it to the lowest baseline for Ram and Snap but think they'll still have to adjust the animation's to fit the cast time(along with the construct combo input timing's). This seems very likely to me since their is such a demand for it from the community at large. Players definitely aren't happy with the current animations. The Dev's have done a good job at taking that feedback and working on suitable fixes for the community's wants(for the most part).

    I think your right that what we have now isn't the final product but Light won't likely get the speed it was at before back. Hopefully those two powers in particular receive an adjust(maybe GU 38 as well.....;)).

    Edited to include Side Note* I think the reason we're seeing a change to Chompers DoT(making full strength) is to differentiate it from Spike and hopefully stop the overwriting from those powers which will give players the option of using both with WM. I still want more PI applicators though. That change does nothing for the controller side and still doesn't really help the DPS who want to use Constructs. So Ram, Impact, Light Blast please!
    • Like x 3
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