Work In Progress: Hard Light Balance - Updated

I dont think its so much a problem of being oblivious to support roles as it is to people putting higher priority of the changes damage wise. The majority of the arguments seem to stem from damage so much so that support roles voices get pushed down. For example , HL being as popular as it is has many upset with the changes as wrong choices could tank the whole powerset which is what alot of people are trying to prevent

I believe this thread is a lie. It was put here to give us hope but in reality it was a poor attempt to keep us from crying about the rapture.... err um GU 36. No dev has bothered to respond to this thread and i doubt that they will. I wouldn't be surprised if HL ends up like Fire post fireburst nerf. Waiting for a fix that will never come.

I'd imagine that the HL community is much bigger than the fire community, if DCUO cares about money, they will fix HL before it goes live.

I actually really like this idea. PT is the exploit of JC, so putting a delay on weapon attacks after a JC rather than another power seems to make a lot more sense. The HL communities main issue with this change, is from what I understand, the way the power plays is being altered - They will lose damage, but as it isn't the main problem they seem to be protesting against I'd say it's a win. I really think you should post this in the "JC solutions" thread.

The thing I find weird about this update is that the end goal is balance (Weapon Mastery), yet all it was done is pretty much unbalance everything even more, new animation times throw everything off, specially for HL ( which has been confirmed to be bugged), so the problems is this, first JC is gone and never coming back, however clipping has been greatly affected and needs to be fixed, also what they did with the animations times didn't help at all as it caused issues with most, so the fact is THIS UPDATE IS ONLY PART ONE, part two is the REAL BALANCE when they finally say what they'll do to all powers, so until then the fact is that no matter how much we try to get balance out of this update, we won't until powers are balanced as well, which can't happen until this update is finished and at the pace this is going that might takes weeks or even more, also many have said they will never get anything right with so many QQ and hater threads out there, yet the things is most of those are in the game play forums and not on the test feedback, those are actually still doing alright posting most issues with videos, so they do have a way of getting feedback, but it's up to them to act upon it.

The hardlight power was the main reason I started to play this game. Was my first and favorite power.

Now GU 36 will simply destroy its attacks for no reason at all (balance? Telll another story, please.

The only way to balance hardlight after GU 36 is to buff all his attacks. Specially Fan, Lightblast (rarely used in dps role), Lightweight (nerfed by YOU), Snap Trap, Grasping Hand (nerfed by YOU) and Chainsaw.

It's disapointing how DCUO simply want to destroy things.

Ok, I just cancelled the automatic subscription renewal of my legendary.

The best way to complain is stop giving you money.

Well I had fun....

It seems to me that the reason this thread exists is becuase the devs are aware that HL will be effected by the changes made in GU36 and intend on "buffing" the power. Hopefully now we'll be able to do decent damage with the actual constructs instead of twitching in place. i've read a lot of comic books in my days and I've never seen any lantern do damage to anything by twitching in place.

Haven't had a chance to get on the test server yet. I'll try to come up with some damage/time increase suggestions this weekend. The end is not near.

Just so you know, they confirmed HL is bugged on test, so right now whatever test anyone does is unclear, once they fix it we will the be able to truly test the effects of this update, also it's no secret to some of the community (i say some before someone says i'm generalizing) that most of this is for Weapons Mastery, since it's the only way to make it a viable combat system for something other that having the ability to sort of using more than one weapon at a time, some will dispute that but lets face facts, all this started right after weapons mastery was announced, and it's been done before weapons mastery goes to test, which makes no sense at all.

All this changes will take longer that what many think, or it should. Once they get the animations and dovetail timings right (btw most powers are bugged because of this), then we move on to balance, and what will happen is that whatever timings you think you got right will be screwed when they don't match up with the new stats for the attacks, meaning is back to the drawing board for both timings and attacks stats. So in other words, sit back and relax, and take your time testing because we're in for a long drive.

There is a whole lot of people complaining that the end is near in this thread or just saying "buff the constructs", and very few people actually testing and coming up with legitimate mathematical based adjustments. Doesn't seem to be very constructive in here. (which is kind of the point of the thread). Any chance the devs can remove some of these non-constructive posts?

Fan seems to be one of the bigger problems here. I would suggest turning into a quick DoT power such as Briar. The DoT last 12 seconds and the fan can just be summoned quickly and you can move on to other moves while the fan remains up blowing on your enemy. Just some thoughts.

I will do more testing this weekend and see what I can come up with.

Like i said, don't try testing yet until the bugs have been fixed, right now nothing combos right, specially fan, and timings are off for some attacks, however you could try testing for trolling, I wanted to but whenever i enter there is no one around to do duos with to test how trolling will work now.

You know its a kind of hard to believe our feedback will be heard,
When people gave them alot of feedback about Jc/Dovetail,
and none of it were heard or take into consideration.

I'm 100% they will fix HL, but not before most people switch to another powerset,
Its SOE, only thing that matter is how much money they make.

I believe it would be more useful if we come up with suggestions that makes mathematical sense ou mor technical.

But in other hand...... I'm not a game developer or a professional in game engineering.

I'm a simple gamer. My only suggestion is to buff hardlight's damage.

The GU 36 test have bugs with the hardlight for sure. Nonethless, the negative effects to the power are visible and expected, thats why they created this thread. And I will not just state here "they will fix and period".

I like this game very much and I like de devs because they seem to like this game as much as we do.

However, they get paid for it and we pay for it (gladly, I must say). I just expect no bugs with my power of choice.

If hardlight does not function as the decent dps it always were I'm out.

I still standby them replacing Triage with a " Construct Empowerment " buff that allows Construct Combos to stun like Power cast stun duration and increase Construct Damage.(Precision Procs instead of Might- like the weapon Procs from Blast adapter would be nice.)
(Like a Precision version of Menace/Intimidation/Warped Reality)

Also "Restore" Supercharge being renamed "Triage" sounds more fitting to me, but others may like Restore being left alone.

I would like an Aggro drop to match other Controller powrset's survivability but I do not feel aggro-drop is a characteristic fitting of Will or Fear.

No visual change except The buff would not be vulnerable to interrupt - just a quick Support-type Fist Pump allowing it to clip attacks like Recharge.

Change Fan to allow it to be clipped by Moves like Recharge or Trinkets.

Those are simple changes that should cover a damage balance gap as far as ranged damage is concerned and gives Controllers a weapon/construct stun that has a useful duration. (Ranged Fan combos would still be viable and the Precision Process from "Construct Empowerment" would aide in damage.)

Wish list: Allow extra damage Might or Precision on helpless PI.
Change Impact and Boxing Gloves location in Support tree to give a Ranged P.O.T. move that also has AoE CC.


Pretty please- change construct Claw combo to allow from Fan: tap claw->Hold Claw

Change debuff on Whip Thrash to apply on last whip attack process rather than 1st.(Enlarge Fear's yellow Whip animation to match actual damage area of effect ...same size as Green' Chains)

My first impressiion of this idea to the dev's to point out, how ridiculous this all is, that they are talking about changes for HL when we have alterations with the JC, dovetails, etc...
So i am more so going to talk more about what the power set is as of right now before the GU36.

NOTE*
This could affect all what im about to say if GU36 is implimented.


ASSAULT POWER TREE

Light Claws <---- LEAVE ALONE.

Minigun <---- LEAVE ALONE, but please adjust it so we dont have to be stuck in animation.

Chompers <---- LEAVE ALONE

Fan <---- LEAVE ALONE

Spikes <---- This needs to changed as this is identical to chompers, the only difference between spikes to chompers is chompers panics (which is a trollers job to CC) & spikes knockdowns (which is a tanks job to juggle)
The only reason i ever use spikes is to brake the encasements provided from ENTRAPPING, so i dont here the try hard DPS'rs whinge but if i were to loose this power it would be no loss to me.

Light Weight <---- LEAVE ALONE, but only fix the interaction it causes against tanks trying to tank. I would like to use this but when its pushing ppl around and ESPECIALLY tanks its rendering itself pretty much useless.

Chainsaw <---- LEAVE ALONE, but it could use a speed up on the animation side, when using this in any role i feel it takes to long between hitting the enemies and could do with a bit of speed increase adjustment.

Ram <---- LEAVE ALONE

Whip Thrash <---- LEAVE ALONE, but IF it hasnt been changed cause i hardly use it anymore for def. debuffing, but i know when i was using it the def. debuffing wouldnt always work, IF its still like this then it needs to be fixed.

Snap Trap <---- LEAVE ALONE

Supercharges

Ballistic Assault <---- NEEDS WORK. SR eliminates the need to have this SC, the animation isnt a fire & forget makes you stand there for a long period of time and it has a 50% chance of the enemy not being there by the time it lands. Also
whats the point of having 2 identical SC? like BA & SR.
Description 25% SC
Construct an attack helicopter that deploys a volly of construct missiles at your enemies, heavily damaging and knocking them down.

Strafing Run <---- LEAVE ALONE.
Description. 50% SC
Generate a construct jet to bomb your target and surrounding the enemies, stunning them, heavily damaging them, setting them on fire, and causing them to flee in panic.
Power Interactions
Inflicts burning to make enemies vulnerable to burning affects.


SUPPORT POWER TREE

Boxing <---- LEAVE ALONE

HAND CLAP <---- LEAVE ALONE

Light Barrier <---- LEAVE ALONE

SHIELDING <---- NEEDS WORK, Its as useless as **** on a bull! There is no where in any DCUO content where this is even viable to have.

Impact <---- LEAVE ALONE

Grasping Hands <---- LEAVE ALONE

Light Blast <---- LEAVE ALONE, but the only thing that i think needs improvement would be when you cast it, it shouldnt be so difficult to be able to get out of the animation.

Recharge <---- NEEDS WORK, In DPS mode i feel it doesnt increase enough precision & might compared to other powers sets, example rage, celestial.

Entrap <---- LEAVE ALONE

Triage <---- NEEDS WORK, Its as useless as **** on a bull! There is no where in any DCUO content where this is even viable to have.

Supercharges

Restore <---- NEEDS WORK, This i feel its ok but not worth the weight and gold for 2 reasons,
1st. Light Barrier does almost the exact same thing if you have the white mods "REGENERATIVE SHIELDING" from home turf, and 2ndly Light Barrier doesnt require you to have SC for casting. Restore may repair more health compared to Light Barrier but with the white socket mod, but it also doesnt protect and reflect damage, etc... and anything with T4 gear and down, it doesnt have the restoration stats needed on there like T5 gear does which also makes the power even more useless. In controller role you want group shielding for power and in DPS role you would want either BA or SR for damage, i cant find any purpose at all to have Restore on your loud out at all as you need to boost your RESTORATION stats to even make it any where near viable to have, so where does a DPS & Troller ever spec into resto? See my point....
Description 35% SC
Restore a portion of your health.

Group Shielding <---- LEAVE ALONE
Description 50% SC
Shield yourself and your group members, preventing incoming damage and restoring power over time.

My Opinion.

I hear a lot from people the reason why they dont troll as much with green lantern is the sheer fact of their PoT moves are both lunge powers. There are 2 reasons why i would prefer a range PoT cast,
1. It would not only be nice to cast PoT from a range distance, but when you have a close look at your construct combo layout every single construct rotation always leads back to either "Light Claws" or "Boxing", now from T4 down you may get away with it, but when it coms to T5 forget about it, there really isnt any construct combo you can actually do with out it, at some point its going to have you at a melee distance.
2. I somewhat agree with some other people that swapping other powers to replace boxing may work, but it wouldn't help the construct combo's relating back to melee. The game is becoming more and more range so you need to make construct combo's have a ranged side of them. I kind of would like to see in ALL controller powers, that the first tree ought to have all close quarter powers and the 2nd tree should have all ranged powers, which lantern almost has now apart from "Boxing" & whats the point of having to identical PoT powers?

There really isnt much improvements you really need for green lantern powers, other then the fact of what i had mentioned above. I have had no trouble DPS'ing & controlling from the lantern powers, but one thing i have noticed the difference from other controllers powers is that our stuns arent as strong as the others. The panic power interaction is ok, but also becomes a pain for tanks and DPS'rs, you dont know how annoying it is having enemies running around and the tanks & DPS are spending most of their time chasing them around, which is why i use spikes over chompers 90% most of the time.

Green lanterns have different powers that do basically the same thing from a mechanical stand point, example chompers/spikes, ballistic assault/strafing run, boxing/light claws, ram/impact, now these powers basically do the exact same thing the only major difference between them all are the animations and the minor differences they have dont affect the game play really that much as far as situations go.

IF the new battle mechanics come to affect i may have no other choice but to ditch the green lantern power all together, i use the jump cancel a lot for moving around in controller role, examples, light blast, fan, etc. miniguns & ballistic assault i hardly ever use because once i cast them i can not move. I like green lantern powers cause its almost identical to gadgets a lot of fire and forget moves and its a fast pace powerset. I have a gadget & lantern T5 trollers because they are both quick and fast and i have played troll & DPS on both, so if this GU36 comes to affect i may leave the game all together as i like a fast pace game and from what im seeing the dev's are trying to do is slow the game right down.

I would like to probably see more encasements and stunns that actually work and is more needed for T5 content more so then panic PI, as the panic PI is some what enjoyable to watch, but annoying for others in the group to deal with. I would also suggest perhaps if we can have atleast up to 2 options where we could construct combo from a ranged stand point and every time we recycle the rotation our DPS ticks would increase like by 20% - 30%.
Example, start with Light Claws (power) -> Miniguns (construct combo) -> Snap Trap (construct combo) -> Fan (construct combo) -> Light Claws (construct combo) -> Miniguns (construct combo) -> Snap Trap (construct combo) -> Fan (construct combo) -> Light Claws (construct combo).
Now lets say every tick would be at 100, but if can do the same rotation the same construct combo those 100 ticks would change to 200 and if you could rotate this construct combo again it would change the ticks to 300. This is just a broad concept, so the ticks arent what exactly what we should have.

We could also have a melee immunity from damage in of some kind in "CONTOLLER ROLE ONLY" perhaps as we could attack enemies and be in 100% immune until we get stopped or interupted with our melee construct combo's and if we were to get stopped we could get out of there in like a couple of seconds. Just thinking of an area of which in nexus for arguement sake where you have to fight 4 Lex's, if you can by some miracle keep those construct combo's going you keep up your immunity up, but once your stopped then you gotta try and get out of there before you get one shotted or have it so the construct combo's still can apply the debuffs and buffs whilst keeping up the construct combo's.

Im just throwing ideas out there.

Well, I have been testing HL on the testserver, so much in advance.
Buffing HL's dammage is no solution to me, because it still suffers its once so challenging and hard-to-learn speed.
These new gamplay changes simply hinder you from beeing a good and fast HL dps as we all know and love it. To me HL-dpsing means a very fluent and aggressive way of fighting, and THAT is what Hard Light once made such a great power. Buffing its dammage by keeping these lame and chunky mechanics can't bring back its joy.
I also tested gadgets, rage and celestial. My impression after testing them was that they do suffer a little from JC + dovetail, but NEVER that much as HL suffers. Tbh celestial doesn't suffer at all since (depending on your loadout) u simply don't need to JC.
And yes, I know, some HL combos are still bugged, but even by increasing their timeframes to be able to combo into something else, won't make it more usefull.
Nevertheless, working on these changes has begun and no matter what I say and how much I cry, they will go live. What a shame

Light Claws when following Ram cannot follow the normal flow...aka Hold Claw after the Lunge...that should be fixed

Fan...should have the targeting fixed (Not hitting enemies on a different Z-Axis) and should be made to behave like a normal clippable weapon attack. (using a support Power like Recharge or any Consumable)

Triage is more like "Restore" than Light Barrier...Triage and Restore heal back about the same amount of health. All Controller classes have a 35% Healing SC...usually only used for soloing content or PvP survivability builds.

HL's 50% SC Group Shielding is a weaker version of Bastion or Event Horizon because it does not reflect damage back. Amount of shielding and Power-back are practically the same - Mental has a potential 10vit deficit. (If it was a group immunity/breakout...that would be awesome instead of reflecting damage)

Shielding would be useful if it could be used with the Empowered Channeling Mod - it would basically be a group Reflection with 10k us 100%DOM and Restore...allowing you to protect the group from about 10-13k damage.(Empowered Channeling would stop it from breaking early) Should be enough to protect group from Oppressor/Ravager Charge or Warrior Ball.

With Impact as the P.O.T instead of Boxing gloves you wouldn't return to a melee combo unless you immediately went to Chainsaw or Gloves/Claw after Light Blast/Fan. Impact->Grasping Hand->Light Blast (fully Ranged combo all ranged stuns) or Impact->Grasping Hand->Fan or hold GH->Fan (but this pulls enemies towards you)

I cannot agree with wanting more Encasements as they are one of the few CC effects that can be ended early from damage. Making DOM CC duration extension useless.
Encasements can be broken from most Ranged attack weapons or splash damage in addition to Encasement breakers/poppers.
The other CC effect that ends significantly early is Mental's levitation - if a levitated enemy is pushed back/knocked down/pulled/juggled the levitation CC effect is ended.

Hard light has a plethora of stuns and a few panic moves. If we were given the ability to stun for the same length as a cast power with our Construct combos then that would put us on closer par with the other troll sets. Stuns from Menace/W.Reality/Intimidation can be applied with normal weapon attacks or other powers. A normal weapon attack lasts a few seconds but a power stun lasts 15secs plus 1sec for every 500DOM. Using the Proc buff Mental, Gadgets, and Quantum can stun an enemy for a full 15+secs with just weapon attacks. Hard Light currently does not have that option.

The increased damage through extended combo is what "Relentless Precision" was. If they change Relentless Precision to being a 45% precision modifier or higher (it was a 170prec boost as opposed to a 115prec boost from Carnage/Annoint/Reinforce...thus it should be larger than 45%)

If they are going to grant us more damage through Construct combos with or without a PI....it would make sense to grant us a self-buff process like Menace/Quantum/Gadgets but with a twist or being a Precision instead of might proc.

Taking Queue from Mighty Smashing....what if "Construct Empowering"

Took a portion of our might 35% or more and converted it to precision for our Construct combos.

Wouldn't be a direct precision buff but would situational like Mighty Smashing just more practical promoting Construct combos.

More unique than just a process from construct combos like Menace/Intimadtaion/Warped Reality....

grasping hand's pull should do more damage, so that we have an alternative to fan

Hl will def need alternatives. Why doesn't entrap have a dot like other encasements? Why do the only two aoe dots hl has override? Why does john Stewart's snap trap hit multiple targets but the hl power doesn't? why doesn't hl have a weapon buff with might tics like the other troll powers? Why is light blast the worst 35% er in game by far? Why doesnt hl have some type of pi to increase damage? With that being said what most have been calling cookie cutter is the only viable way to hl dps if your choosing to be effective and not just to look at pretty green constructs. Its not hl users fault these were the cards dealt and we had to make something of them.