Work in Progress: Combat Balance

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Spytle, Feb 26, 2014.

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  1. kajutsu New Player

    So maybe you agree that bring fast gameplay in some combo of WM (= weapons combo), will force all the crazy clippers, JCers to use their weapons.
  2. Derio 15000 Post Club

    I wouldnt say 1s I would say .5s is reasonable enough. However we have gone through 44 pages of just constant arguing. We all need to come to a compromise
  3. Serj Committed Player

    I can see how JC being somewhat problematic mechanically when it comes to PVP but im pretty sure in PVE it doesn't matter, so why not just change how it acts in PVP? do a pass on it like you did with the pvp/pve weapons or something.

    what if instead of what we have now, so you don't see the animation due to a JC, make it so you can't see the JC instead and flow it dynamically through the animations? a HL will JC 3 times or so in it's rotation so essentially right now it will look like all he does is jump in place(and aesthetically speaking, don't you think that looks silly?)

    right now the intention is to "slow things down" but my question is whether the issue is with how fast it is or with JC as a mechanic itself.
    i think that, for the sake of it all you can't take someone who is used to driving a Ferrari and take his car give him a sedan witha faster engine and tell him it's a Ferrari.

    so what really is the problem when it comes down to it? i think that JC is a much bigger part of it than clipping and animation times are.
    • Like x 1
  4. EvilSnake Well-Known Player

    I like this Kaiser guy
  5. thelostczarnian New Player

    i know i went back to acro cause jc with flight is irritating. on a game pad all i have to do it hit the jump button too hard and bam im stuck in retch because i didnt know i was hovering lol
    • Like x 1
  6. Tre Day New Player

    I do laugh at the people that consider themselves masters of a certain power, especially HL, and not because of their skill because I do respect them and their ability as far as their perseverance to get better; it's because they consider themselves godlike and whatnot. I play HL and hearing people go, 'If you want to get better at it, you've got to go to ________.'

    Really? That's awesome.

    When a game starts to boil down to strictly numbers, it's just not fun anymore.

    And to those that go, if you don't Jump Cancel, you're not playing HL as intended...right. You just keep thinking that. While you're at it, please send your apologies to the controllers who has to deal with it. The HL concept was about Construct Combos. Jump Canceling was a concept brought about by players to accentuate the power, not be the centerpiece.

    Sometimes, arrogance kills other people's fun in a game.
    • Like x 4
  7. Zypher New Player

    I don't care at all about that though. I just don't understand dumbing down the game to overcompensate for outdated peripherals is what I'm getting at. DCUO plays heavily like its intended for the PC platform. I don't care if these changes have to happen on the PS (in regard to animation timing) side of things because that could potentially be necessary.

    Across the board, though? I seriously doubt it.
  8. RageOfHeaven1990 New Player

    This is just me but I hate running with only one healer. I much prefer balanced raids (I would love two tank raids but at the same time incorporating that would be really hard).
    • Like x 3
  9. Holy Decimation Active Player

    This is worrisome but just like every other change in the game I think we will find a way to make it work, just looks like more time in the war room if you ask me.
    • Like x 1
  10. Mei Ritsuko Well-Known Player

    Thank you ^^ just by looking at the comments you can tell how arrogance some people are and I hope Devs removed JC and make the game play a little slow because to be honest I'm tired of the kind of players that feel superior over theres because of combat mechanics in this game. There are MMOs like FFXIV AR when everyone play the same and when everything is balanced I want something similar to DCUO T_T
    • Like x 2
  11. BumblingB I got better.

    I love this post. I wish I could like it again a few times! D:

    Players don't seem to realize that there is an overall change in gameplay. Jump Cancelling isn't a big factor and it only affects a few powersets (namely light) or powers that can utilize this. So the overall aspect of it doesn't concern most players in the long run. Not to dismiss the concerns of JC utilizers, just it's not the big issue here that the named few has made it their campaign to try and prevent. Plus, until it is set in stone, it is merely over exaggerated speculation on the community's part of the few.

    The bigger picture was defined overall in the initial post of this and the original thread that had to be split. Step back from the tunnel and look at the overall scenery. You all should be asking other questions. Like about the normalization of animation times. How will that be adjusted as there are DoT based vs Burst Damage based powers. Light has some of the fastest animations that can be combo'd. Fan is long, but others are not. How would putting the animations of light to 1-1.2 seconds change the gameplay for it? Or how about Sorcery, which has very long DoT powers that have cast times to equal it? It was said that cast bar animations (fireburst) aren't getting changed, why? They would end up being less used compared to other powers that had long animations and now cut down to 1-1.2. THEN what about the damage out from hold charges, such as DW, Staff, 2h, etc? They already adjusted the damage beforehand, which is probably to get us ready for this change, but how will this impact it?

    There is a bigger picture here. Come on community, you guys are smart. Look at every part of it, don't get hung up on one small part.
    • Like x 9
  12. Cybernaut21 New Player

    So there's no chance any dev could address this? I'd be happy with a "This is the way we like it, deal with it" answer...

    I can't be the only player in this game that enjoys melee combat and feels excluded from raids because melee basically doesn't work there.

    As far as these changes to jump clipping and animation times, again, I'm glad the devs are showing some concern for balance, but I think maybe they're going about it the wrong way.

    Why create balance by breaking things many players obviously enjoy, instead of fixing things nobody enjoys, thereby creating new things more players can enjoy? Instead of spending so much time angering players who enjoy jump clipping (I am not one of them by the way...), why not spend some time making disgruntled players happy by fixing the lousy powersets, like electric, for example?

    I'll grant you, the top 3 powersets, rage, celestial and hl could use a few minor tweaks down because they are heads and shoulders above the other powersets (and btw, if you guys were so concerned about balance, how the heck did rage come into the game like it did?), but the weaker powersets are so lowly, you could easily achieve better balance by buffing those powersets. And guess what, by buffing those powersets, you'd make a ton of people happy while angering very few, and you'd sell a ton of respec tokens as well. There have also been suggestions to improve might to create better balance, which again, as a buff would make more people happy than angry, vs. your current trajectory where you will be making a lot more customers angry than happy. Why not buff some of the iconics and have them work in tandem with regular powerset powers to offer alternatives to jump clipping?

    I'm seeing a lot of anger and pride on both sides of this argument, I just hope the devs can put their pride aside and realize that the key to making this game successful is making their customers happy, and I don't know that the proposed changes are going to do that. If this goes forward, they will without question turn off a large portion of their playerbase, a good chunk of which is probably a bigger supporter of this game financially than the rest of said playerbase (and again, I feel it's important to point out I don't jump clip, as I'm a flier). I think a better balance can be achieved in this game without wrecking things many players already enjoy about this game. Again, instead of the proposed changes, I would suggest buffing the weaker powersets, buffing might to be more competitive with precision and doing something with iconics to provide alternatives to strategies like jump clipping.
    • Like x 3
  13. oF1RESTARo New Player

    They could always make powers go into cool down when ya JC instead of increasing animation times. If you JC all your powers are unavailable till you go through a whatever time cool down, then if you used it for it's "intended purpose" to avoid damage and roll by the time your done with roll you can go back to using powers.
    Honest though I really wish they would just fix the "REAL" problems. Voice, Combat Mechanics, Stuck in Roll, etc etc. Make improvements to the cast time powers to bring damage consistent with power hungry ones and much of the argument goes away. I would hate to lose players that enjoy the clipping and JC because it's fun for them, just so i can keep up as a dps with my power!
    • Like x 1
  14. NewAgeHLDPS New Player

    as you stated jump canceling is for advance players who learnt clipping and took it to another level, why would you mess what they have learnt up? all because others cant keep up with them in a competitive way. Its not our fault that ppl dont take the time to learn clipping, jump canceling as we have. So why punish the 1s who know how to?

    IMO this will make you lose aloot of paying customers who have been here for years because alot of our mains are CR103 and high SP'd and rely on clipping and "jump canceling" for the maximum dmg out in raids and alerts.
  15. Hero of Justice New Player

    Look, this a Work in Progress thread. If you feel that Jump Canceling will make HL useless, why not suggest that they buff the HL powers accordingly instead of trying to fight any change to the mechanic? Only person I saw make such a suggestion was The Hornet (I've lost it in this sea of pages or I would quote it :) ), everything else has been one big flame war for the last 20 pages. Instead of making blanket statement about how J/Cing changes will "ruin the game," why not try and suggest ways that the devs can keep all of the powersets viable while making a change they feel is right for the game?
    • Like x 2
  16. NewAgeHLDPS New Player

    and further more taking jump canceling away as it is now, your taking the fun out of DCUO for the players who do use it. Therefor taking the chance on losing ppl of the game who most likely sub or are premium and buy DLC every time its released (and extra stuff off market place, like my self)
    • Like x 1
  17. NewAgeHLDPS New Player

    just because they feel its right doesnt mean its what their paying customers want. and at the end of the day arent they suppose to give us what we want as we pay their bills?
  18. Hero of Justice New Player

    Found it. More posts like this would be better served, in my opinion.
    • Like x 2
  19. NewAgeHLDPS New Player

    that guys horrible lol im no where near the best HL player but i def do better then that guy and Im in prec gear lol

    that guy in that video was dropping his combo's to much

    me if i drop a combo its either:

    1 - a boss pulls/stuns me


    2 - there is a lag spike and idc who u are if there is a lag spike ur going to drop your combo's
  20. NewAgeHLDPS New Player

    if jump canceling is nerfed to where its not even worth doing, then dont complain a DPS isnt burning fast enough in A&B or any t5 or future t6 raids/alerts

    blame your selfs as its fine the way it is. Its the lazy ppl that refuse to learn clipping that have any problem with clipping and jump canceling...simple as that.
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