Why You Are Out of Power (Hint: It's not the troller)

Debuffing before giving the dps power? This is why some trollers are bad. Debuff the mob, but handicap the dps burning the mob, how does this make sense?

Because it's their decission
Strategy?
Expectations?
Talk is good
Asking is nice
... Demanding?
POT and Dumping are not the same,

Are you a Sith??? Because I thought only Siths deal in absolute??

If you have a decent DPS.... you don't even bother to use debuffs...... because with a decent DPS things will be dead before you can even think of using a debuff.

When you have a not so decent DPS and things take forever to die..... you need to make a choice.

Do you waste power on a DPS that barely does any damage??

Or do you use power for a debuff that will allow EVERYONE to do more damage??

If only ONE DPS needs power..... giving him power only benefits HIM.

But the debuff will benefit everyone.... meaning it will benefit ALL the DPSes in the group.
And with groups that often run with 5 DPSes..... that means something.

So you will make a call depending on the situation.

Sometimes the call is to give power to the DPS.

But sometimes the call is to powerstarve the DPS and cast a Debuff instead.

Or powerstarve the DPS and keep power in reserve for the Healer in case the Healer ends up needing to cast a few burst heal.

Or powerstarve the DPS and keep power in reserve for the Tank for some reason.

The Troll must also manage HIS own power too.

If the Troll uses up all HIS power and let his blue bar run dry trying to power DPSes who cannot manage their power.... the group will be in trouble.

Sometimes.... the best move IS to powerstarve the DPS if it will benefit the group.

i just bring drinks myself to power myself up if needed, also supply drop, After grping with so many horrible trolls who don't even know how to p o t i wont rely on any troll to know how to do their job unless its someone i know

makes perfect sense, debuffed mob equals quicker kills and if the troll knows what he is doing, he/she can debuff (which takes all of 2-3 seconds) and still power dump or pot

Awwww.

You can rely on me.... I swear. By the way... what is "p o t i" ??? (sorry.... could not resist)

When I play as a Healer.... I usually don't rely on the Troll because as you mention..... lots of bad ones out there.

So I do the unthinkable.... I manage my power use.

And with the help of potions and supply drops.... I can do fine even if the Troll keeps on forgetting to put up POT.... or if he barely give any power for some reason.

Yes there are bad Trolls out there..... but you can help the Troll by supplying at least some power yourself.

Heck you can help the Troll even if you have a Great Troll in your group.

No reason for players not to use Supply Drops or Potions to give the Troll a break.... or the Healer a break for that matter.

But too many players just flat out refuse to use potions.... and many don't seem to know what Supply Drops are or what they even do.

Lmao ok obi. I was responding to the post I replied to after I asked why not give a dps power if you have it

I was responding to the post I replied to, which he put debuffing above giving the dps power. Was in a group last nite and the troll was putting a prec and def buff on a boss, and I had 0 power. Prec debuff is not needed in alerts. We had a 1-1-1-1 group, so we didn't need it at all

Demanding? That's why they invited you to the group, that's your most important job. No pug group invite trolls for the debuffs. It's not demanded, it's expected

Ever heard of clipping your debuff with a recharge? If you use weapon mastery you will never need to make these "choices" you claim to be faced with. Do you use Soda's? I ask this bc apparently some in these forums don't as an "ideal"

ehhhhh and this is why i hate these kinda threads - gets into endless pedantic rebuttal loop.

The facts of it all are yes, there actually are bad trolls and that reason people are out of power is 100% due to their idiotic play style - and on the flipside there are horrible button mashing players who give no care to blue bar management and first port of call as to why pewpew, overhealing, or using tank powers ever 2 seconds vs. every 7-8 isnt working out well for them.

I'd think everyone can agree the top 2% arguing back n forwards is rather moot - in all honesty, you guys would probably play the best together and are closer in opinion than most that post here. Great!

The thing that messes it up are the people that play selfishly in the game but also love playing the blame game. Those people suck...regardless of role.

As someone who plays all roles in the game at endgame level, i feel your pain people.... but you know what? most of the people don't play how i want them too either, but then again im not paying their sub either. It's always going to be a case of 'live and let live', getting angry and spazzing ingame or here in the forums really doesnt solve anything in all reality. It's much more beneficial to find people in game that want to learn then teaching them the way of the ethical warrior ie making actual change, and skipping over those the will never get it or simply dont want to get it. But then again, some people just want to watch the world burn, right?... *shrug*

Uni

As a sorcery dps (might based) I can and do burn through a power bar immediately upon fight start setting up dots and PI and buff. If you fall behind on powering because you wont dump when im the only one out of power you are not playing your part. Whereas if you fill me initially you should easily be able to keep me aound half powered. I wont need to set up everything at the same time again it will be scattered with different cool downs. And if you say I shouldnt s initially set up all at once then you dont understand maximizing damage. PI int dots buff then wm into burst. I will not wm into my dots that just wastes time and the dots do more damage with a Pi up. But If I don't see pot tick for a while I'll start asking

I have to agree with you there. As a new player and troll my loadouts wasnt right. Luckly another cotroller told me some of the things I need to help out in raids

okay, assuming the caveat - we're all in a group and people either know themselves or know each other, or both.... that changes a lot of things.

I figure, in a balanced group? power consumption (and thereby power regeneration) is going to be determined by the tank. this is supported by the following personal observations. my DPS (mental) does a non-stop stream of four digit damage - if I ONLY use her sword. i CAN dump a lot of extra damage in there via means of power use, sure, but she's usually fairly power-efficient because i'm a weapons-first player. my healer is electric, she hits like a fly in her support role (i really need to stop using a bow) and carries zero attack abilities in her loadout. let's face it, Electric may be a very fast, high-output healer, but you play them improperly and you can drain your power bar in seconds (you can do that with any powerset, but electric makes it very easy) - if i play her conservatively and make sure i have continuous output from Biogenesis and the occasional Flux, Biocapacitor and Galvanize at the right times? she can also be very power conservative. my tank, however, i'm constantly cycling shields, pull and Frost Snipe (what can I say, I like the classics) - goes through power faster than any other character i have, for that reason alone.

with a decent troll, 280-300 POT tick output, the occasional burst regen and good attention paid to the maintenance of POT cycle and double ticking? even the ice maiden never runs out of power. so... in a decent group with a real troll, assuming no one's literally just spamming powers, no one ever runs out. as a result of the above, when I play troll? i base power out on the tank's consumption schedule. in a group with players I know, this works just fine, plenty of time to debuff in between POT cycles and I can use a long WM combo for a bit of extra damage even.

in a troll-less setting with four players you actually know - does anything literally become impossible to do? no. is it noticeably slower? usually. running your four healer config works smoothly because you all know each other, you know your powers and you have that aforementioned group synergy. and it doesn't take much effort to keep yourself alive when everyone can heal and aggro switches continuously because of the healer aggro dump. which says good things about you guys as individuals and as a group, but that's awfully ideal. i spend a lot of time on a different schedule from 50-75% of the active players in my league so i frequently get the experience below instead .

'Enter the PUGon'.

if you, as a player, hop into a PUG and go for a walk, synergy is usually the first thing that goes out of the window. some people adapt remarkably fast to an unknown team - this is an exception, and not a rule in my observation. in situations like that? things usually break down quickest because of inconsistent power consumption and insufficient power regeneration.

you have a DPS far outpacing the tank (i'm looking at you, inexperienced rage DPS with two continuously cycled moves and no weapon attacks) - you have the electric slider burning an entire bar to create a large light show any time anyone takes even a tiny bit of damage, other things like that. you remove a troll from a mediocre PUG and the difficulty slides right up the chart. i can DPS without a healer or a tank, i can tank without a DPS and still hurt things and cycle shields well enough to survive without a healer, and i can heal well enough not to need a tank out front (although she's not a damage contributor, gnats are more dangerous) - but i can't pull power outta thin air.

the role that takes it the worst is my tank, and if she runs out of power, there goes aggro, here come a swarm of angry little things leg-humping the DPS and Healer to death, then i'm standing around attacking things going 'just another 20 hits in this combo and I'll have enough to use Reflection! i'll save yooooou!' by that point i'm usually talking to a corpse.

i think that's really why Trolls shine - anyone in your group, minus power, is effectively a middling-decent-to-somewhere-below-dismal DPS until they have power again, that's the truth. if you cannot use your abilities, then you do not have those abilities, and if you do not have those abilities then you're no longer actually contributing that thing to the group. the troll is what i notice missing the fastest in any group scenario, for that reason alone - and it doesn't matter how efficient I am as a player if Spamsmith The Unfortunately Overenthusiastic runs out of power. if you suddenly don't have a healer or a tank, you need to kill things faster - which takes more power. you suddenly don't have a DPS and it's 'survival mode', which is also gonna take power to maintain. you suddenly don't have a troll? better hope you remembered your supply drop and didn't use a soder any time recently or it's back to rocks and sticks.

there's a reason why both the characters i have with supercharges use one specifically capable of regenerating Power - in an 'oh ****' moment, it makes things move again. as a DPS, are there better loadout options than Bastion? Probably; but if the crap can hits the fan, I want the windex.

I know some other Troll player mentioned this already, but I had to :

As a DPS - power consumption in a group isn't determined by you. You do damage, damage is important - but without Aggro Maintenance (the Tank) and The Ability To Not Die (the Healer)? Everyone is in danger, and not just your scoreboard position. Everyone can hurt things, not just you - but you can't heal, you can't tank and you can't troll.

As a DPS I maintain this awareness and if the Troll isn't keeping up with my power consumption because I'm using too much, I adjust my cycling and go from there. If the troll isn't keeping up with my power consumption because they're over in the corner lost in attack cycling and there's no regular POT going on, no Burst regen - fine. Complain. At that point you SHOULD complain.

As a Troll? I don't base emergency group power regeneration (Burst power spamming or Supercharge Regen) on your consumption, because if you managed to burn an entire power bar before the Tank - who HAS to use an Ability once every 8 seconds minimum to maintain aggro, and will realistically do so on a schedule closer to every 3-4 seconds - that means you've literally gotta be standing there just spamming Abilities. Use weapon attacks, adjust your Loadout, figure out the timing on WM combos or use a powerset with an included Advanced Mechanic that includes either Power Interaction or a kickback in use cost for the chain.

In your case, being myself a passionate controller, I would keep you refilled till I depleted 75% of my energy. I would keep my last 25% and a soda at hand in case of emergency. In a long fight you would see me dumping my supply drop regularly right upon your head. After a fight like that I would look to the chart and, if your damage doesn't top the damage dealt by the other DpS, you will stay dry for the rest of the raid and for any other raid I will be playing with you. That's my usual approach.

It's the controller's duty to know whether a team member is worth the care or not.

edit: of course, the over mentioned strategy is applied in case the healer and the tank are doing their job properly, without burning power too fast. In this case, I wouldn't be able to take care of you because I would be busy swearing and cursing them!

If you are the only one in the group who burns thought his blue bar in 2 seconds..... maybe you are not doing your part??

Are you used to running content with overgeared Trolls??

If you burn through your blue bar that quickly.... you better be the top damage by far...... otherwise no Troll will bother refilling you the way you wish it to be.


If your DPS burn through his power bar in 2 seconds you expect the Troll to fill you up right away up to 50% using power dump??
If you are the only one on empty.... essentially you are asking the Troll will waste 2/3 or his power dump.

Many Trolls will see that as wasted power and will not do that. They will power starve you until others need some power too.
Most would wait for 3 people to actually need power before using their power dump in order to maximise the dump.

Ghaladh is generous since he would burn as much as 75% of his blue bar to refill you.
Me I would burn 50% of my blue bar at the most.

My discussion was based on the op who clearly stated they had the capabilities to maintain power to everyone, but didn't want to because they felt they shouldn't have to put out as much as they were completely capable of. Hence my repeated citing of "lazy trolls" or people who purposely don't fill their role to the highest but ask of it from others.

It's not really generosity. You have to think that a good DpS decrease the need for healing and tanking and increase the survivability of a team. You know, the "if it's dead, it can't hurt you" philosophy :-D. If I am using my power to let him burn the enemies really fast, I have no problems with that. I have problems if he's not being a little good killer :-D.

I use the dump as soon as even only one member of my team is around 75% of his energy, provided I have the usual 25%+soda emergency pool available.

I agree that if things die quick... the Tank or the Healer will have less to do.
So sure.... that will make it easier to keep full the DPS using power dump even if no one else need power.


Sadly most DPSes do not burn through enemies quickly enough.
So you often need to starve the DPS to make sure that you have enough power for the Healer or Tank.

Early on in the fight when my blue bar is full..... sure I could hit the dump only for the DPS alone when his power goes down to 75% or 50% and fill him up.

But as the fight goes on.... and on.... and on...... if I reach the 50% or 25% mark myself...... I will not be as generous with the DPS and may starve him a bit waiting for someone else to also need my power dump.

Also as the fight goes on..... I will pace my Bastion and Supply drop.

I usually have a established timing of when to use Bastion and Supply drop..... and will alternate between the 2....... but that is not set in stone.... that will change depending on how the fight goes.

Dropping the Supply Drop on the DPS is another way to try to fill him up when I am low myself.

Although..... I am starting to think that many players have no clue as to what a Supply Drop is or as to what it does.

Wayyyy too often I will drop my Supply drop on someone...... and I will see him roll away and drink a potion instead..... or roll away and use his own Supply Drop for some reason.

As if they were insulted somehow that I dare drop my Supply Drop on them.

Makes no sense..... but damm how this happens often lately.