Why the nerf to rewards in Lair Battles didn't solve problems

I actually understand the decision to lower rewards in Lair Battles. I met several players that were just standing there, throwing the match for their quick reward and then move on to mess with the next person they queued in with. The problem is that by doing lowering rewards on that match, the issue was spread out to the other matches.

Just finished (and lost) a Safehouse Recovery match (4v4 legends) where a (well-known villain PvPer and forum user) player actually stood there doing absolutely nothing. And when confronted with the situation, his candid response was that I should do something nasty to myself and then /sleep. (I had the misfortune of meeting this said/sad player several times over the weekend, and the attitude was always the same "top notch" effort and kind words, but that's a different story)

I understand there's not much the Devs can do on the issue as this sort of thing will just keep happening. But if we add these players to the ignore list as we see them, is it possible to not get queued in with them? In time, maybe they could end up teaming up with their own sad kind and get their stuff as fast as they want, while the rest of us actually do something to actively deserve our rewards.

Again another terrible hotfix by the devs....clearly the solution shouldve been since the matches go so fast you wont recieve marks for losing....duh devs

...short term memory, you have. They already tried the no marks for losing tactic. PVP community got even smaller as no new players entered the pool while older players inevitably left.

Maybe there should have been a minimum threshold of Power Used and/or Damage Output which must be met in order to receive Marks of Valor...but still give the human sparring target a Mark of Legend to keep them in the PVP universe.

half the rewards for losing and half the marks for winning fair trade right?

What they need to implement is rewards for actions that take place during these PvP matches, it shouldn't be based on winning or losing. For instance, if you capture a node; 25 MoV. Kill a player; 25 MoV. Kill a player defending or attacking a node; 50 MoV. They need rewards like these although probably not as high as I set them but either way a system like that to encourage players to actually try hard in these matches so they can win more rewards by contributing more to the match.

I thought of suggesting something along those lines, but then started thinking, there would still be ways to cheat in order to receive marks. The power use, anyone could just stay in place and keep empting the power bar, and as for damage output, pure healers would suffer.

Again, I understand there's little the devs can do to stop this nonsense, so I wonder, if we all keep adding these quitters to the ignore list, can it happen that we never see them again?

Or just keep the rewards for winning (It was like 100 right?) and nerf the rewards for losing to 35. So you know, people actually have an incentive to win.

This is actually interesting. If they have the technology to pull this off, it would be a nice fix. Have a minimum guaranteed reward (along the lines of what is currently given in Lair Battles) and then add marks rewarding performance based on the player role upon entering the match. Heal X amount, receive X marks, give Y amount of power out, receive Y marks, and do Z amount of damage, receive Z amount of marks. All these amounts could be capped to prevent rewards going overboard. And extra reward given to the winners.

The issue with it would be the tanks. How do you measure if a tank his doing his role properly? Any ideas? Maybe number of deaths (zero would give the most marks, lose marks per death)?

This is what I would have done personally however this would only solve half the problem. The bottom line is that lair battles take no time to complete. 3 Kills is all that's needed. No travelling time, no cogs to activate, no objectives whatsoever other than kill your opponent 3 times. They shouldn't reward the same amount of marks as a 4v4 or 8v8. They shouldn't even reward the same amount of marks as a node based 1v1/2v2 map either.

Yes it should have been done before the update was released, but whatever.

Rewards for winning arenas at T5 are 200 so I was going to suggest 50 for a loss (25% of win) but yes this is the proper solution imo - I like the idea of always making progress but the bias has to be to encourage effort.

Applied to lairs I think 100 for a win and 25 for a loss would be a fair adjustment.

That will put more folks (like myself) put off from doing PVP. I won a PVP match this past Friday and I was in every fight, giving Immunity, doing damage, but I didnt get any kills. I had 0/0 at the end of the match. By your example I wouldnt get any marks. Basing it on Kills isnt the fair way for everyone so thats why its a Win/Loss thing.

Worst HotFix Ever.

I would love if putting people on ignore made it where you wouldn't be placed on teams with them. One day I was trying to run some Arkham matches on the PC server(late days of season 2). A person claimed he was going to rush their base. He dies without taking the base or killing any one then claiming the team wasn't good then refused to move. His words wasn't as nice. Fine we lose due to the four on five situation. Fine I put him on ignore. Next match he is on my team again. I don't hear him but it looks like he tries and fails at the same strategy. I hear someone arguing but don't see who they arguing with but based on the one sided part I heard I guess it was with him.

Just as Tori said, Lair battles go quickly so the time it takes to complete is shorter than the Other maps so the rewards should be smaller. Now this was placed in a hotfix. I want to "hope" that maybe in another hotfix or rather Game Update that the longer Maps get the adjustment for increased MoV. Although I wouldnt expect it til maybe the next season due to the Cost of gear already set and they would have to increase it to scale with the incoming Marks gain.

A lot of folks arent happy with the MoV changes to Lair Battles but folks are glancing over the real issue and its not the Marks, it is those individuals who exit the beginning area and just stand there not contributing and just blatantly taking the loss. THAT is the real issue. An in-game reporting system would be so nice.

That sounds good until you think about it for a second. On larger maps (4 man and up) sometimes you wind up not doing much of anything while being a major factor getting the win.
Like in Outback, all the opposing team goes to the same 2 nodes and you end up just camping the Zig and never even fight anyone. You would get only 25 marks for a node capture but you score the majority of points towards the win because the other nodes are being fought over.
There are matches you lose sometimes because some clown keeps just fighting, I'd be mad if we lost and that guy got more marks than I because he was killing people instead of completing objectives. I'd be even more angry if he got more marks than I when we DID win because I worked hard enough to overcome his non-help but he got more marks.
More marks/kills for more damage in a match like safehouse would reward the people NOT helping to win the match, it's already hard enough to get people to try to move the rock instead of just fighting.
I would be to worried that a system like that would kill the team play and turn all maps into 1 man shows. Why try to win for the team if you can score more points doing your own thing?
I think the best way to earn rewards is win/lose.

The ignore/not get put in a match with them is tricky too, that means you are excluded from any match that that person is in, so in an 8v8 if he's in the cue you have excluded yourself from playing with 15 players and cues for 8s are already pretty tough.
It stinks but there is really not a solution to people that are going to behave the way they do like the guy in your story Johnny other than to wait them out. It sucks but it is what it is.

And Hiya Johnny, have a good day buddy

Very frustrating to see players not moving in a PvP match. But what can we do about this! There is nothing we can do but complain.
We can put that player on ignore list! The chances are slim to see that person again! But that does nothing for us, The real question is how does DCUO make PvP better! It really has nothing to do with marks, it has to do with people wanting Feats to accomplish there goal and putting no effort into! Its always about how to beat the system best and fast way as possible! We are all guilty one way or another, either in PvP where taking advantage of a player who has no skills, or if there is a easier way to run through PvE content! Helping other's who are not high enough to complete a raid faster then a group who is fully geared! We will encounter these problems moving forward regardless if they gave us 1 mark for a lose because people tend to farm what is easier for them with no effort! My suggestion is do 1V1 or get a friend and do 2v2,4v4,5v5, to avoid situations like this! But marks has nothing to do with people not wanting to play the game properly cause the system allows us to get marks doing nothing! Win or Lose you get rewarded! Now a system where you can report a player for not moving eventually that person will get kicked from PvP with a penalty lets say 24 hours? The more people complain about a player in PvP for inactive they should be punished period!

I like that final idea, as long as it is confirmed that the player actually did nothing. Simple reports could lead to people reporting just because they dislike someone...

agree that's why there should be system where you can only report that one player once a month! If others feel the same way then that player should be granted a penalty!

I didn't read past this point...


This a thousand times!!!!!!!!!!!!

The losing reward should have been reduced, NOT the win. Idiots!

And all in all, who cares how fast people gear up? If there are players that intend to just stand there and take the loss, I doubt they will be coming back to PVP once they get the gear. Most of them just want the style/feat. So, like I said, who cares?

Don't punish the masses for the acts of a few. Especially if it doesn't even matter.