Why I think that stat flattening isn't the problem with this GU.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Crimson Mayhem, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    The motivation for stat flattening is to offset stat inflation. With the current system on live we would be beyond the 20k Might mark at the end of T7 most likely and it would only get worse. Since OC came out all content has been either trivial when it launched or made trivial by whatever launched next since with the old system they balance difficulty by NPC stats as I tried to explain in the OP. With 100 or 101 gear any T6 content except Elite Throne is already trivial and irrelevant which it shouldn't be since it is the same tier.
    Something had to be done about these stats and with the current system they can't just lower the amount of stat increases cause that would make proper difficulty scaling impossible.

    It is the same for marks basically, the currency value got multiplied by 5 each year. Exponential functions, especially with factors like this just get out of hand very quickly. T7 might have been OK with 15k MoT per solo and 150k MoT per raid. But T8 would have gone up to 75k MoT per solo and 750k per raid.

    You are right though, it is a very drastic change, especially since there was zero messaging about it before it got dropped on Test. And as pointed out, there are quite a few flaws to the new system that make it not an improvement but instead punish us in multiple ways.
    • Like x 1
  2. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    True, once you hit the cap then your stats won't make much progress anytime soon so if you can't beat content X with full set stats then you are pretty much SOL for a pretty long time until stats make a considerable jump again (most likely after 6 months when the content is phased out of relevancy). If this turns out to be the case even a slight mitigation scale could help out.

    In the end we will always need a minimum of role performance to beat a given piece of content and let's not pretend that most content won't be easy still. Content will still be balanced to our stats and most people will still beat most content, just stats won't allow us to ignore mechanics as easily as they do now.
    • Like x 1
  3. Remander Steadfast Player

    Has potential to be an elegant system. Basically, relative CR becomes a scalar. I'm not at home or I'd put together a sample plot. Picture the stat graph I posted in feedback. Add a Z axis that's the CR scalar. When CR is equal, your stats are true. When you're under the NPC CR, you're stats are relatively decreased. When you're above the NPC CR, they're relatively increased.
  4. Pathosgrim Dedicated Player

    Its the fault of the people that wanted Stat Clamping.

    As always, its the community's fault.
    Enjoy getting together T2 raid groups in an attempt to get Heartshard pieces and Raptor Tech :rolleyes:
  5. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Except it's not the community's fault. If anything it's the devs' fault for putting in this exponential system in the first place. There is only one thing exponential functions do, and that's inflate. That is something you know before you use them. It should have been clear that this would happen.

    Anyway, it did happen and now we are at the point where content gets trivial faster than new content can be launched so something needs to be changed. As I said, making lower tier content irrelevant for higher tier players and preventing us from oneshotting that content wouldn't be a problem if we weren't forced to grind that old content in the first place due to garbage loot and high counter grind feats. If they mean to get us out of lower tier content and into higher tier content then they should make finishing low tier feats possible within a reasonable time.
    • Like x 3
  6. Minnion Devoted Player

    Remind me, how much will gear sets cost now? What about the vault? If you're high enough CR for the next tier of content wouldn't you want to access that content anyways?
  7. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Gear sets will cost the same across all vendors except T1 and T2. And just because your CR puts you in a higher tier doesn't mean you won't want to buy things from lower tier vendors. The problems that come from mark reward bands are the huge grind wall that old vendor gear sets will become now and the trap of getting locked out of access to vendor gear of a purchased DLC unless a following DLC is purchased. War of the Light 1 gear will get you to 100 long before you finish the full set. Then you won't be able to purchase WotL1 set anymore unless you buy AF1 or HoP1, because CR100 says you don't get marks from T5 anymore.
    • Like x 1
  8. OGM_Madness New Player

    I stopped playing this game a while ago and I'm only here because of the new DLC popping in YouTube (I left when HoPI came out, hard to believe part II is almost out).

    Checking out what's new is making me NOT want to come back. My main issue is this: one of the things that killed the game for me was the league currency Prestige and how it made my efforts wasted. As a leader of a small (but elite/skilled/proud) league, my efforts were suddenly unappreciated. I had to either 1) grab a bunch of new players and walk them through the lower missions and leech the prestige from them or 2) disband and join a bigger league.

    I hate that system and it eventually led to a lot of... bad memories. To think that they are implementing THAT same system to the bread 'n' butter currency (marks) is beyond stupid and very short sighted.

    The part that is the same is that veteran players will have extra reasons to not help new players, because it will be a waste of their time. Even more so now that every is getting insta-nerf for some reason. This might be OKAY if the game would suddenly experience an influx of new players, but everyone can say for sure that more people are leaving the game than people are joining.

    Either way, the little interest I had for this MMO is pretty much gone.

    TL;DR: Checking up on DCUO after leaving feels like breaking up with your dream girl because she changed, and now that I'm checking her FB profile, she gained 250 pounds and has 3 kids from 2 different guys.
    • Like x 8
  9. Sectumsempra Dedicated Player

    The issue is you guys think stat flattening is a good idea because you think it will stop bad people from being bad.

    no they'll be bad. They'll just be more of a hindrance on your group, more kicking, more league only runs of alerts and old content.
    More needing a league to level up in the first place.

    I also notice you specifically said double t2 stats in t6.
    Shouldn't I be double t3 if progression were actually linear and not exponential?

    This is so hilarious because theres a huge thread about why we hate feeling like we do in legends pve and this update brings legends pve into pve, in a very indirect way. We dislike feeling not powerful in instances we've beaten and overleveled.
    • Like x 4
  10. Sectumsempra Dedicated Player

    Also I can guarentee I can get across tiers faster now then I would with this update.
    I think this update was to slow down gearing up.
    I can reach t5 in a weeks time while racking up around 60-70 Sp with little effort in the current games state.

    Post this state, I'd have to find enough people to run the content and can no longer mod myself into different tiers.
  11. guardzman New Player

    If they change the efforts i have to endyre to complete lower tier stufff then the adequate reward should be the same its like a two edged sword cutting me twice
  12. Nemeses Prime Dedicated Player

    .... I really didn't like this changes...

    I think it's time to leave and play another game. Elder Scrolls looks good, FF Realm Reborn too....

    I am disappointed. This changes isn't good for me and my favorite powers are broken now (Fire and Earth).

    I started to ask to myself: Why I am still playing this game?
  13. Nemeses Prime Dedicated Player


    Madness your cabron!

    It's good to see you here my friend! I hope one day I will go PR and see you personally!

    Yes, all this changes aren't good for me too, and I am thinking that I am in my limits.... there's no reason or feel hope in the game.

    Look what they did to my (yours too lol) favorite power Fire.... GARBAGE!

    I will wait for the GU47 and see.
  14. Nemeses Prime Dedicated Player

    My question is:

    Why I will enter in old content now if I have all feats from there?
    Answer: No reason.
  15. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Bad people will be bad, I don't doubt it. But you seem to have missed the point. It's not that it's a good thing for higher tier players to be stuck in lower tiers with noob groups or being unable to solo content. There really is two main arguments to it, the higher tier argument and the lower tier argument.
    Higher tier content shouldn't become trivial within 2 months of its release. With exponential stat growth as we have it on live right now the content also gets trivial increasingly fast with each new gear set. Since our stats grow so fast and content difficulty is scaled by stats (not by CR) that means each new set of gear makes old content trivial. T6 alerts have already been soloed.
    On the other hand, yes this update will definitely prevent us from soloing old raids and make running low tier content very uncomfortable for high tier players who now can't just rely on their superior stats anymore. But the problem isn't that we can't solo content with higher gear. The problem is that we are already forced to grind old content for years due to abysmal loot distribution, grind feats and content design issues.

    The problem isn't that I can't pew pew through Batcave within 10 minutes on my own. The problem is that I even have to go there still when there is so much top tier content for me to do just because I still didn't finish all my styles because of garbage loot tables.
    The problem isn't that I can't farm CCB solo anymore. The problem is that I even have to farm 500 of those while I can only do 9 each day because I need the missions and then I have to search for them for hours before they even show up.


    T6 is CR 116. Half of that is CR58 which is T2. So yes, your stats should be pretty much double T2 at the end of T6. If progression was exponential as it is now your stats could be anywhere really, depending on the base of the exponentiation.

    Post this update, you won't have to mod your way into higher tiers because all gear already counts as if you modded it. Not even on EUPC villains is it hard to find a partner for some T3 duos and get a few pieces of IL62 gear that will now get you to T4 in no time. If anything, gearing up will get faster.
    • Like x 1
  16. Streven Dedicated Player

    This update is across the board the best thing that could have possibly happened to this game. There are a lot of people overreacting based off of very little data. This will help the game in the long term and is the best hope DCUO has for a bright future.
  17. Sectumsempra Dedicated Player

    Higher tier content will and should become trivial in 2 months, if you play for that full two months, thats why part of this update is to release content monthly a few months after after gu 47. And trivial to whom might I add? There are still groups in full 114 who fail throne regularly.

    T6 Alerts being soloed by a handful of players shouldn't be an issue for the community at large considering there isn't a single t6 alert with a walk-in.

    We aren't disagreeing anywhere after that.
    t6 is actually 100 cr. t2 starts at 43.
    I'm not sure we should use the literal most unobtainable number as a benchmark when it comes to t6.

    I won't have to mod into higher tiers but It's already a task finding people to run with, my villain if not for the help of some people over leveled for the content not just bursting in wouldn't have had enough t2 duos to advance to t3.

    If not for over-leveled villains the character also would have been stuck in t4 for the remainder of the game, as I was the only on tier person in the t4 raids i ran, after waiting in 1.5 to 2 hour queues, forgetting I had even queued for raids.
  18. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    From Spytle's words, some "holes" are getting filled so I suspect that more T4 content will be added.
    Anyway I geared up a few characters on the server with lowest population which is EUPC. Just getting your CR up won't be the problem as gear gets you far and getting into at least duos will always be possible. Your concerns of getting into group content though might be justified I think. We all know lower tier population especially on villain sides and PC servers in general is sparse. Because of the issues I noted in the OP this update effectively kills lower tier content for high tier players too so only low tier players will be left.

    Apart from that I think something needs to be done about the reward structure in low tiers for high CR players.
    I'm sure most of the players who are so vocal about their rejection of stat flattening don't solo Batcaves, FoS, CCB or whatever each week because it's oh so much fun for them. I'm willing to bet most of them just want to get done some crap style or grind feat or farm easy marks for vendor sets. Blame the reward structure, not the stat system. The stat update just makes reward issues more apparent.
  19. Remander Steadfast Player

    This afternoon, I'm going to put together two sample XYZ plots looking at dynamic CR-based mitigation vs capped. I asked Tunso to clarify in the testing thread. If it really caps, that's not a good thing at all.
    • Like x 1
  20. Yuck Gadgets Active Player

    Stat clamping is in ff so you might want to try ESO. Not sure on their system