Why all the T5 raid backlash ??

Folks,

The purpose of this post is not to start any arguing, insults or finger pointing but rather to get an understanding as to why there is so much backlash regarding the T5 raids, at least from the USPS3/4 side then I ever remember before.

I read so many players posting about how they can't get into raids because of "Elitism" and how groups want specific CR level, power types and such. This is nothing new at all, I remember when the FOS raids first came out and groups would ask for players to line up at Power Girl for gear inspection and those who weren't geared enough wouldn't be added. The same with when Gates/Prime came out, and when CRs first came available people would ask for a certain CR level for the T4 raids, and I don't remember the backlash then.

If anyone feels they can't get into a Pick Up Group (PUG) because the group doesn't feel they have the correct gear/mods/whatever why can't that player(s) run it with their league/friends and if they don't have league/friends available why don't they just create their own PUG group to run it.

I'm not being sarcastic here at all, but judging by how many people constantly say Gear,Mods,CR,SP don't matter, then they shouldn't have an issue with putting together their own PUG groups, as opposed to constantly complaining about "Elitism" behavior.

As far as the Glitching that is going on, every raid and I mean every raid has had their glitches that almost all players have run at one time or another. From Kandaq to FOS to Prime to Gates, etc...and I don't recall having this much hypocritical backlash regarding this up until just recently.

Why now is there so much hypocrisy concerning the T5 raids ??

I won't mention names but I have seen many players post here and shout in Trade/LFG about how they despise the Dox glitch, though they glitched the ever living hell out of it when the first few "glitches" came out.
In one post one person even called out his own league mate for being a hypocrite...lol

Anyone have an real insight as to why this has become such an issue ??

Mal

maybe if they put some Expert Mods on their gear instead of Beta mods they wouldnt have a CR issue

also nobody likes to be told they are a risk to the group, even if its true

I've never seen a raid glitched. At least not to my knowledge. Sometimes it would seem to me that a strategy is referred to as a glitch. Just my opinion.

As far as the severe backlash I admit it is much worse than it was before but to be fair that is because requirements are a lot worse and most people have yet to beat the T5 raids because of it. Yea there have always been people having crazy requirements, but it is much worse with T5 than ever before because T5 is significantly more difficult than any of the others before it. And when I say difficult, I dont mean that they are "hard" so to speak. I mean there are tons of cheap one shots and the annoying enrage timers and so on. It makes it much more difficult to be able to run with lower CR players. Because of that people are getting crazy with requirements, more so than before.

Never seen anybody try to run nexus or dox with beta mods lol. But I have only type V mods in all my gear making my CR 98, do you consider that a CR issue?

I don't have expert plans because none have dropped for me and they are too expensive. I also don't ask other people to make them for me. So I use my V's. But because of that, my CR 98 is considered too low for 90% of groups shouting for these raids.

Maybe a lot of people are new and have been carried this far? I'm serious here too. You can be carried straight through every tier, but T5 takes everything you are supposed to learn before and puts it to the test. You have so many people who cant pay attention and cant seem to learn mechanics. If you can't understand mechanics by now, you havent been learning them thus far.

These people who have been carried expect to be carried still, and there is no room for that in a T5 pug. They come here and get vocal about it. Its apparent they have been carried as well by a lot of them having such an inability to learn basic mechanics. Hell one guy in another thread simply cannot understand that if an AOE gets dropped on one of the shields, you "have" to move, and pick up whoever doesnt make it. He also thinks with gear, you should be able to stand in a "one shot". They cannot grasp what "one shot" means, so obviously its all luck based and the games fault.

You also have a hugh sense of entitlement, look at the "do I have to mod for nex/para" thread and all those saying people areeelitists for saying "yes". They think other people should spend their own leasure time carrying people who are too lazy to do very minor work to improve. They have replaced "Its nice of you to help" with "you're a dick for not doing my work for me".

It is all just because these raids suck. End of story. Why oh why are we still making threads asking the same questions?!

Experts dont raise your cr more than regular mods. Also V's are fine, I have seen people with no mods or betas only, and they are always the weak point. I have yet to see one Raven geared beta mod player perform near where they should. Yet a large portion of those that dont mod would have you believe they are beast enough without it.

ur CR is fine..for both dox n nexus IMO, especially nexus
V is good
my comment is more about ppl who get 85cr-86cr gear throw beta mods on it cause they feel like the 87cr or 88cr piece is right around the corner.

they handicap themselves cause they dont want to remod later

which handicaps their abilities to get in groups

I've read that experts in the head, neck, and rings do have an effect on CR. Not sure if it's true though.

Why the backslash?
Because most of the player doesn't want to learn raid mechanics,
they want to get in and get out with loot,instead of having to use their head to figure it out
why they can't beat it.

Its easier to come to the forums and ask for a nerf.

Yeah... That could be a bit of an issue for the Premium part of the community.(It's not exactly easy for us to get the materials to craft those even if we do have the plans. Mostly due to certain limitations placed on us by the game itself...)

To be fair that's not the only reason... (The other being that those who can't get into these raids are frustrated by teams that don't want to learn the mechanics and tend to start kicking them before they themselves can get a handle on them. These people are usually willing to learn but face delays due to community attitude.)

if mods didnt effect CR and just your stats this also wouldnt be a issue as we would all be 85-88 cr and this crap wouldnt be so bad

The difficulty of the content versus the CR requirement is completely skewed. The cheap tactics and all of the rendering issues. The incomplete loot tables with horrible loot (has been drastically improved). Basically the dev's did such a poor job on these raids on every level that people want the best chance of surviving as it is the only way to get better gear. With such little room for error most people do not want to spend 3 hours in a raid with no real rewards to show for it.

It is to easy to get on the forums and cry for nerfs. The DEV Team chooses to acknowledge that the player base is weak and unskilled. They have to protect their jobs by catering to the people who claim to not have time, do not want a second job beating raids, or are unskilled in gaming. F2P brought the casual crowd, and unfortunately they are a vocal group of people.

It is a combination of things that make this raid unlike the before mentioned content in your post.

Yes those other raids you mentioned were difficult, caused problems, and were a general headache in their given day, but the T5 raids took everything up a notch from there, creating initial havock on even the best geared individuals when the raids came out. As a result, those great geared individuals got a wake up call, as they struggled to complete the T5 content legit. Those that only did the raids legit, remember those difficult runs, dying a lot, and failing often. As a result, they have developed an aweful taste in their mouth when they hear of others taking a short cut and bypassing their pain and missery.

Add to that fact, these uber geared individuals rewards were often lacking when they were able to compelete the content, and fuel is added to the fire because individuals who glitch DOX get all 88 drops, drastically cutting down the amount of time these players are running the content and yet aquiring the best gear in the game.

Then the glitches began. Some who struggled, learned and took advatage of those things. Others decided not to. Anytime a community is divided, as it is on this topic, there is going to be some in favor of it and some against it, and both are going to be vocal, and both groups to an extent are going to have valid reasons for supporting the side they are on.

Did everyone aquire their gear legit? No. Will anyone confess to glitching or taking advatange of certain strategies to make the content easier? No.

The only thing for sure is that as long as content is able to be glitched in some manner, groups are going to find it and use it no matter how ridiculously hard or easy it is to do.

Real quest here, How can they learn if people keep kicked them and/or don't run with them?
My anwer is they can't

Enraged Timers. Number of players who generally were beast in there role reduced to being scrubs now.

Most relevant thing anybody posted was the statement "but judging by how many people constantly say Gear,Mods,CR,SP don't matter then they shouldn't have an issue with putting together their own PUG groups", does not apply due to the EGO of the community.

When it first came out it was fun at first the more people tried the raids and found that they couldn't pass any of the side rooms they would leave with a reward. (A meaning if they were lucky 1 weapon or 1 piece of gear that they didn't need due to the raid dropping what a lot already had from the vendor 85 level gear).

The reward for 8 hours didn't suffice after having gearing up from the vendor just to beat lets say Nexus and leave with a Focus element 5 the rest of the drop was in a role they didn't play.

When the first groups started beating Nexus they were, and will deny it as of now because who would volunteer that and admit they are not as good as they let on that they would Glitch the door, but the reward was the same.

No other raid does the drops not match the raids we can argue it all day long but the enrage timer speaks for itself.

Tell me skills matter make a group of 86 or 90 CR only members and run it.

Easier to 5 man Nexus with CR's at 100 & 101 could possibly do it with less but the Artifact does not lie so I don't know if the Burn will be there to beat that because at a lower CR couldn't beat the Buff or Stun room due to multiple problems burn, invisible AOE, lack of power and the fact that these raids were the first that I had seen that Tanks would run and cover as if the world was ending instead of being able to take a little damage and hold the attention long enough to be healed so that people could burn.

Yes when some learned more they improved but even still many on the PS3 and PS4(by default) still have problems that wiping people out many know how long you have to get to the Shields at the end and Lex does his 1 shot as soon as the 2nd shield appears and it was a fluke seen it happen more than once. (1st shield up 3 seconds later 2nd shield up he is dowing his 1 shot funny at first.)

Dox that is a whole new discussion people would beat that as well spending hours on 1 raid some people could not do anything else and still left with nothing and I mean not even a focus element 5.

Facing the difficult of these raids will cause any sane person to evaluate their situation and choose to do what works for them.

So why not the frustration with the content many poured hours in to their toon like I did to hear the casual vs elite, skilled vs geared/CR stupid arguement and watched as the LFG went from where it was hard to get a group to where you can go take a quick break and still get the people you need to put a group together.

What is sad is a lot of these players were Beast when T4 gear was the highest level when T5 came out they are lower than the guy who been playing for 6 months from the comments I have read I wouldn't want to run Arkham Asylum with em because they lack simple skills and gear don't matter ( we would wipe before we got in good they are so poor at the game mentality).

But eh that is what I seen.

As was stated, a majority of the issues that are bantered about regarding the T5 raids aren’t new or exclusive to T5 content. “Elitism” as far as PUGing goes is more a byproduct of Replay Badges then the individual content.

That said, T5 did exacerbate the situation by having the best gear drop in raids. This created the issue of needing better gear to beat the same raids that you received the gear from.

In the end, DCUO has issues but since we’re dealing with the internet, it’s hard to have a more focused direction amongst the community that will lead to better gameplay and content for us all.

You know ..... I'm not attacking you Room ..... but I have to say this, because I'm tired of these raids and I only log onto the game once in awhile now.

My CR is 98. I have a couple pieces of 86 gear. I got lucky and had a couple pieces of the 85 gear, and then that update hit, and those pieces became 86. I have a nice 87 belt. I have regular V mods in everything.

I cannot consistantly beat Dox. I just can't. I see stuff, I roll, if someone is next to me, I pick them up. I give back power. I'm always trying to stay mobile. If I debuff things .... sometimes I get screamed at because the "G's" and "homies" all want MOAH POWAH!!!!

I didn't get carried through any content. (Well .... admit it, everyone gets carried through content the VERY 1st time they run it.) I learned my role. Sometimes the hardway because I got screamed at, because no one just talks to anyone anymore. Now I scream back.

On these forums though ..... I'm considered a crappy newbie (eventhough I stood in line the 1st night to get this game on PC, and have been on the PS3 version since right after Lightning Strikes,) or ..... as you would say ...... I got carried, because I can't consistantly beat T5. So what am I supposed to do? I guess I'll go back to being happy about the nerf.