Who's fault is it? A Controller question...

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by RLManuel, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. RLManuel Committed Player

    First off, I've always loved being a controller and I love what the revamp did with our stuns and making pot activate by using any move, but I hate recharge or the power heal, it's way to weak especially for a 300 cost ability. High cost means it's supposed to be strong, right? So please make it stronger or reduce the cost.

    I have 296sp on my main controller character, hybrid play style, mods are Vit and power and spec'd sp full Vit with remaining sp into might/power but keeping a group powered is a problem, why is that? Why don't my stats matter?

    Is it my fault if the group struggles on power, or is it theirs?
    Am I supposed to just spam my power heal?

    When I que up with people to do raids I literally feel more like a battery than I did before, and what's worse is I feel like a battery that doesn't have enough juice.

    So who's fault is it?
    • Like x 3
  2. StillDeathern Dedicated Player

    It's the role less buffs fault. It was OP. ;)
    • Like x 1
  3. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Your stats do matter. Double your Vitalization and your Power heals double. It's as easy as that.

    Now with that out of the way - you aren't supposed to keep a full raid group (or even alert group) powered by yourself anymore. If the group doesn't cooperate and everyone wastes their Power then it's not your duty to fill them up again. Just like Healers can't spam and burst everyone to 100% Health every second anymore, Trolls can't get a spammer group from 0 to 100 anymore.

    If you're keeping PoT up and use dumps every couple seconds and someone runs dry and blames you, tell them to **** off and manage their own Power better. Everyone has a lot of control about their own Power consumption now.

    That, or bring a second Troll for raids. If anyone runs dry in a two Troll group, that's their own fault.
    • Like x 9
  4. ozzy1111 Dedicated Player

    let them run out of power!!!! they (the DPS) should be making a loadout that is a balance with damage and power cost. but, we all know, that will never happen. all the boards are anymore is...I NEED MORE DAMAGE. MORE RESTRO. MORE POWER. MORE, MORE, MORE...ie...easy mode...even when it was EASY MODE. AM'S the DPS still did nothing but complain. I NEED MORE POWER. MORE DAMAGE. its lame. the game is still easy mode. just not...as easy. and so many having a hissy fit about it. SMH. stand strong on this one devs. keep catering to the DPS. and you will kill the game!!!!!
    • Like x 4
  5. Mazahs Loyal Player

    People stated many times during revamp this was an issue.
    Devs did jack and squat.

    Fault lies with Devs, plain and simple. Its hard to "balance" a game when you have no idea, or better yet actually "play" said game without god-mode on.
    • Like x 2
  6. GhostsAndMagic Dedicated Player

    Why is everyone always worried about whose fault it is? Just play your best
  7. xXHeadlinerXx Dedicated Player

    DPS blames tank for adds. Tank blames healer for taking damage. Healer blames troll for low power. Troll blames dps for slow burn.

    That said, if the problem is that you can't hit recharge after every combo and clip every rebuff with recharge, respec to might/power first and vit second. You will make up for any small decrease in pot with being able to keep recharge on cooldown all the time. And don't be afraid to use the supercharge and the sc generator.
  8. TechWarrior0329 Steadfast Player

    Do you play support roles at all? Because the REASON for the question is simple.. DPS have a tendency to pour every bit of Sp they can into increasing damage and could care less about even trying to increase their power or their health or their defense..

    Then they get in game, rush at a mob and start blasting away. Within seconds they have no power and about half the time their health bar ins dropping like a rock because they didn't wait for the tank to get aggro or for the healer and troll to even arrive in the room. And they are screaming bloody murder and making comment like "Out Troll sucks" 'Out Heals: stink"

    Some do not even have a supply drop on their utility belt... That would require them to stop shoot at stuff for a few seconds and they use that spot on the belt for a consumable that will do more damage.

    Basically they do just about every thing they can to make themselves totally vulnerable and then .. when they are out of power and can not longer attack or they are on one knee ,....It is every body else's fault BUT theirs.

    Perfect example: LONG ago I joined am Inttergang alert. Along with my 3 team mates i was in DPS mode and we were struggling on that first part in down town Metropolis .. Couple team wipes and some one on the team mentioned "We really need a healer or a tank"

    OKAY I took the hint and POOF I was in tank mode. Now amazingly after that the problems all seemed to disappear. and everything was going smoothly. Then on the final Battle some one made a misstep and we had a team wipe. Went back and repaired armor and headed back to try again and then one of the DPS typed the following to my TANK in group chat:

    "You really need to pick it up a bit. Your damage out is way below every one else" Three guesses what he was hinting at... Aww heck I'll just tell ya..... He was about to suggest we kick some one and find a healer..... Then the other 2 DPS chimed in

    "Well he's a tank... been that way since Metropolis. Of course his damage is low"

    About a minute later, if that long, the guy that challenged me quit the team. My guess .. He was the one that screwed up and caused the wipe to begin with and after his plot to get me kicked failed.. he ran away before they kicked him. AMAZINGLY a DPS that was a lot lower in combat rating joined us through the Que and we went back and had no problem at all beating the crap out of Bruno and Egg head..

    See that's the thing.. we have people playing the game that don't even bother noticing what is around them.. including team mates. WAY too busy trying to be #! on that score board and also more than willing to blame any one and every one BUT them selves when any thing goes wrong. After you get blamed for a pile of crap you don't even have control of mission after mission, group after group.. you start wanting some genuine answers because you are tired of being the scape goat.
    • Like x 7
  9. M1 Garand Well-Known Player

    After revamp - power shortage is always a group's DPSes fault, no excuses. For the cost of 10-15% damage out reduction average skill DPSes may run loadouts not even needing a PoT. Hybrid or super-powered, does not matter. Instead all I see when power is an issue is a brainless power suckers leaving nothing out of troll's power dumps for healers and tanks. And healers need excessive power only to heal stupid (or act stupid by themselves), they can manage power consumption perfectly fine when group playing game mechanics.
    • Like x 2
  10. ozzy1111 Dedicated Player

    simple fix. THE SECOND I see people doing stupid stuff. I leave. simple as that. I'm a tank. heal. troll. I have all the SP I need. almost all the feats. I don't need. and wont put up with idiots. simple as that. ill stick in there for a feat run. wipe after wipe. if...were just having bad luck. learning the way it works. working as a group. but, as soon as the complaining starts. no one doing pick-ups. hitting a switch. what have you. if I'm in tank. I'm out. if I'm doing it all as a heal or troll. and there complaining I'm not healing or giving power. I'm gone. cant pick-up and heal at the same time. (talking to you DPS) see its simple. only way the DPS might get there heads out of the...ALL MIGHTY SCOREBOARD....
    • Like x 3
  11. SparkmanX Committed Player

  12. spack2k Steadfast Player

    well idk but i have enough sp for 175 into vit and 100 into power and its amazing , i can solo troll any raid without power issues for the group... i dont know where the problems for other trolls are... my troll has 7300 vit and not even 20k power and its beast.
  13. Proxystar #Perception

    Oh that explains why we've still been running raids with 1 troll.

    My guess is, it's the reality that some trolls just aren't as good as they thought they were that and they playing with 100sp ;)
    • Like x 1
  14. xoHLxDPSox Steadfast Player

    it is the groups fault to a extent. Simply because we are in the age of managing your own power to the extent to allow the troll to debuff and do other things besides feed power 24/7.

    BUT thats not how it is on live servers. Live servers people are thinking the same way as if its AM era still. But its not, and thats why I say its on the player / group not the troll.
    • Like x 1
  15. TheDark Devoted Player

    Well, the revamped actually nerfed our stuns so I'm not a fan of that. They're set durations depending on the power. Before you determined your actual stun time.

    I wouldn't mind a passive PoT with a Home Turf mod on or something. I don't like how they got rid of it by being manually turned on in the manner it used to work. Now you pop any power and you'll activate PoT. But the mechanic in the past allowed you to do a better job at power healing if you were attentive enough. That was in the form of the Double Tick. You just time, or observe, your next PoT tick cycle, cast PoT and you'll deliver 2 burst power PoT ticks to all 8 members within a second. That's good power healing there especially with a game designed to limit power healing Controller mechanics at the time.

    Now you have to throw out the skill of using manual PoT to help you recover power to the team. You'll need power supercharges ready, and ideally you pop them when power is very low on what you consider to be priority players/roles. The Instant Power heal feels weaker than before and it cost more because of the limited group buff it gives. There's a cool down on it and with limited power healing out the game limits your power healing power further within the Controller role.

    What I do is I cycle 3 Vitalization trinkets. Same as before the Revamp. I have the Central City, summer pet trinket and the normal trinket you get from drops. Cycle them by spreading them out or when you think a specific attack will require more spamming by players.

    You also need to take advantage of your supply drop as well as keep an eye out for players who drop theirs. I think that goes without saying. But I can't stand when a player drops a supply drop and someone who is low in the group like a healer doesn't cast powers and jump their way over to it. The game requires more personal power managing but people have to use or go to tools that return power in burst types.

    Some players will tell you to spec a certain way and the reality of it is it doesn't matter how you spec. If you prioritize Power over Vit, yes you'll regen passive power to yourself faster. Yes you'll have more power to give. Ok? Where in that logic does that mean that the players receiving your rapidly restored power will have sufficient power restored to them to keep their full rotation in flow? You can be at full or halfway full on your own power but if a player continues to cast high power cost abilities, you will never keep them full or halfway. Perhaps around 1/4. Realistically you can't do more than that with Instant power heals alone given the cooldown on it.

    That also doesn't mean if you prioritize Vit over Power stats that your Vit will play a significant role. Yes by increasing your Vit, your PoT, supercharge power, and Instant power heal directly give more power to the player. If you use a weapon that restores power to yourself in good amounts that would help. I use MA and sometime HB. MA does a good job. Same thing will happen there though. If a player constantly casts powers that are high cost, despite you speccing high Vit, you will not be able to keep them full or at half. Perhaps around 1/4.

    You're going to struggle regardless of spec with players that have high power cost rotations. You will not struggle with players regardless of spec with players who have low to medium power cost rotations. Therefore, your spec and what you did at the time will influence what you see as what works or what does not work. That is what will determine your advice or plan of action in the future.

    It comes down to certain variables (think like dpsing) in the specific content you are in. It will depend of the player and their powerset, how they manage power, if they understand power healing, their power costs, how often they drink soders, cycle supplies, how they spec, their SP/modding etc. You can spec completely "wrong" "not normal" "not the new norm" etc and surprisingly still beat content with players who had burn and didn't wipe.

    If you want to shut someone up who was belittling your performance there's always the math approach. Tell them to write down the power costs of all their powers at their tier, their full rotation, the timing and compare that to your power out by PoT, instant Power heals, supercharges, and factor in your timings (like the cool down for Instant Power heals). It's tedious and no one is really going to do it. You'll need a small window to show as an example but they'll see that the game can't physically allow you to restore XXX power in XXX time based on the players XXXX power cost rotation. It's how I proved/showed power budgeting before AMs came to the game.

    That's an essay for you. Just know power healing is limited now. Aside from finding practical methods of restoring power quickly to group members, players in general need to understand the game, once again, limits how much power can be restored to group members.
    • Like x 1
  16. Streven Dedicated Player

    I prioritize my attack and defence debuffs over power heals in general but debuffs only need to be placed on bosses and sub-bosses for the most part. That gives you plenty of juice to throw out power heals on regular intervals.

    I consider spammimg power heals to be primarily for getting healers and tanks through a tough spot. In those cases you aren't trying to get them full but instead keep them from going empty. Once things equalize there's no need to spam power heals.

    If you're doing some CC, throwing debuffs, and a steady amount of power heals every few seconds then power shouldn't be an issue. If DPS are constantly empty in those cases then it's on them and their crappy rotations.
    • Like x 1
  17. Sixfiguredice Well-Known Player

    I personally let them run dry and force them to pop a soda. As of right now pot is fine (wish they get rid of recharge and up pot) a lot of dps use to many power hungry moves or spec hyprid for extra dmg and spam. If you run with a group that has balanced there loadouts/playstyle you wont have an issue and can solo troll raids still. I even tested specing into all might & power as a troll and still was able to do fine if group is balanced. If the only person running hybrid is the troll it also helps. % to healers, tanks, dps meh make it up in power and power regen.
    • Like x 1
  18. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    The can of worms they were doing was far worse than what we got. The problem lays with the fact the community hates the idea of controllers and wants batteries. Devs were giving us what we want and it resulted in terrible changes to the game. Then they reverted most of those changes and went back to similar to "live". (At the time.)

    I'm going to say it's the devs fault ultimately since ultimately they pull the triggers, but gosh darn it, it's the community fault for pushing the whole battery junk. Power wouldn't be an issue if we had two trolls. Doesn't make the role more fun, but it does take away the power issue from the equation.

    In the end of it all, the devs need to OWN UP and change controller class. Either full on say it's a battery or do something about the role itself. It's gone on too long. Pre-Revamp, the problem was content. Post Revamp, the Problem is Content.
    • Like x 3
  19. Darth Piper Loyal Player

    • Defense debuff on boss... DPS gets better damage per cast, therefore fewer casts
    • Damage debuff on boss... Tank takes less damage so healer doesn't need to work as hard, thus casting a little less frequently
    • Healing debuff on boss... Boss doesn't gain health back (whether at all or much more slowly) so the fight doesn't last as long, thus fewer casts of powers by anyone and everyone
    Oh look... some power management for the entire team courtesy of your controller. :)

    Beyond that, if you aren't managing your own power it's your own fault. The controller will provide you a little boost once in a while and maybe hit you with a supercharge when several are low... but beyond that, the name of the role is controller... as in crowd control. Power healing is a side benefit.

    DPS... out of power? Try using your weapon for a couple of shots... you'll suddenly have a bit of power. Quit being selfish and thinking a raid run is all about you. Your healers, tanks, and controllers are there to make the fights go smoother.

    We all have to work together in concert with each other to accomplish the mission. This means you have to go and do your homework... do the individual tasks (setting up a loadout that produces best role-related things at lowest power cost, spending stat points wisely, looking at appropriate power interactions, etc) so that when you show up in the group you are ready to do your job. This is not AM/CRD cookie cutter, everyone uses the same loadout.

    Or as the person in charge of my band will tell us: "Go home and do the 'you' things so that when we come to rehearsal we can work on the 'us' things."
    • Like x 1
  20. Surtur Well-Known Player

    So who's fault is it?

    1. You are giving POT with your powers.........YES
    2. You are giving a Power dump.....................YES
    3. You have done all you can do.....................YES

    If you have done all you can do and players are out of power then the players that are out of power need to go back to the drawing board because it is not your problem....IT IS ALL THEM.
    • Like x 1