What will "League Halls" mean for players who don't want a 'Real' League?

I agree with clone %100

And considering that the devs are implementing Proficiencies in order to make running or joining a large, active and well organized league worth the effort for the veteran players, if they decided to make the same bonuses available to small leagues - where veteran players could just cluster together, excluding new players (who need help, ask n00b questions and do dumb things - and now they'd also make you have to work harder for the same bonuses, because of scaling - so why recruit and help them?) - they might as well not bother with the stat bonuses at all.

Most veteran players know their way around the game and have a lot of (or at least some) friends - to the point that being a "lone wolf", or having a small league of close friends is no longer a hindrance. I really laugh at people wearing the "lone wolf" term as a badge of honor. Please... I've "lone wolf-ed" most of the time I've played DCUO and it's not hard at all - especially if you're legendary and can buy plans, interfaces and other stuff.

It's the fresh (as well as f2p and premium) players who need leagues the most, but a league made of only inexperienced players is almost no help at all. And good, experienced players have no incentive to play with fresh players, unless they enjoy bossing people around.

The Proficiency bonuses are supposed to compromise how you play, so you may find it beneficial to put some effort into making large, helpful leagues - and deal with all the problems associated with it. And large, helpful leagues have better chances of lasting longer, because even if a few people can quit the game - there are plenty others to carry on. And now - with all the bonuses and other League Hall stuff at stake - there will be a lot more motivation to keep a successful league going and growing. Which in turn should give a lot more opportunities to fresh players, hopefully making them enjoy the game more and stick around longer. You can advocate "small" leagues all you like, but most of them tend not to care about "n00bs" and disappear as soon as a couple of players quit. That doesn't benefit the game as a whole and that's what the devs are concerned about.

Feel free to complain about this as long as you like, but I'm certain the devs are well aware of your concerns and they're ignoring them, because that's exactly the reaction they were expecting and they'd rather promote social interactions between many players of different levels and experiences, than small, exclusive circles of mutual adoration.

Thanks for your permission to continue to complain and for bumping the thread.

I have to disagree as I am an 'end game soloist'- CR106- and I ONLY run open world solo missions. I have no desire to run multiplayer missions and don't have a need to. I don't NEED league 'proficiencies' to run solo missions and considering their miniscule stat bonus, nobody else NEEDS those proficiencies either. As the devs stated, they are not "game breaking" by any means.

I like here how you jump to conclusions making it sound like the devs have some sort of 'conspiracy' against solo players. The FACT IS, league halls and Halls of Power DLC were planned MONTHS ago, all the while they were also making Sons of Trigon, War of the Light, and Amazon Fury- all of which included some open world solo missions. If you haven't read the WIP thread, they are also planning for more cool additions to future open world missions in upcoming DLCs.

It is bizarre to me how someone can claim to be a 'solo' player, yet continuously pug multiplayer missions. That does not make that person a soloist, that makes them a 'leagueless' player. The difference is, solo players run almost exclusively solo content and rely 'solely' on themselves for progression.

I, for one, have always said to those complaining about the recent DLCs having so much small group or solo content, that not every DLC caters to every type of player, which is why I am NOT complaining about Halls of Power not offering anything for solo players. I can still utilize Gotham Under Siege for MoF to buy the HoP vendor gear and continue progression until the next 'small content' DLC for new missions. Asking DCUO to take an obviously league addition and change it to cater to a very small subset of non-leaguers is just being selfish. Further, they have already stated that they did not go with a 'scaling' system because it would harm large leagues by offering them less return for running the same content. It makes perfect sense. After all, why should someone who CHOOSES to create their own league of ONE, be able to gain benefits as quickly as those who have hundreds of players?

As a solo player, I am happy that we finally have a DLC designed exclusively for large group players. I just ask that you large group players remember this when the next 'small content' DLC comes around and offers more content for the solo/duo players.

^ this

Thank you for pointing out that Brees's numbers assume that the 12 league members would have to have no life outside of DPS Online. It looks more reasonable that a 40 or 50 active member league is required of normal players. Hardcore players will get there quicker and casuals just won't get there at all unless they are in a massive league.And yes, I know the dev's stated that it was designed around a league of 40 or 50 players and the math seems to support that.

You know this won't happen. Next DLC they will complain how there is only 1 raid and how no one likes solo's and duo's despite the fact that many of us like running the smaller content more.

I'm not sure what you mean by "my numbers". I never gave any.

This problem isn't about having a life or not, it's about people's need to feel like everyone needs to have the exact same stuff. I'm sorry, but the "trophies for all" mentality just doesn't fly for me.

That's not true. Everyone who wants to have every prestige option unlocked will have to join a large league. You are still going on the assumption that everyone needs to have the same stuff or it's not fair. You don't have to compromise your play. You just want stuff handed to you.

You may say that your scaling idea is there to help everyone out but it's just there to benefit you. Based on your numbers, all the scaling will do is let you, by yourself, get some unlocks. If you really wanted to compromise your numbers would be higher and you would still need to have a few people in your league to get them. You just want to be able to solo it.

I'm done on this. Go ahead with your "champion of the little people" reply. I get it, you want stat increases and it's unfair because you get claustrophobic whenever you join a league. I'm just not going to sit her and get bashed for a lack of empathy when solo people can't take responsibility for their gaming choices.

I see no real issue with the scaling costs of proficiencies as long as the last tiers are the DPS ones.... Might make more people play their other roles actually as well...

I've been out of the loop for awhile (got a puppy and been hectic here at work) so I'm going to have to read up on this whole thing and not going through 53 pages to do so.... I kept seeing the word "excluded" though and from what I can see these things are BONUSES, not things you're being excluded from. It's not like they said "you need to have 50 people in your league to run this content" or anything have they?

I'm sorry, it was not you that gave the numbers.

I agree that the trophies for all mentality is wrong but a trophy is only a symbol of an accomplishment. What we are talking about is how some people will be getting bonuses for doing nothing different while others have to change the way they play in order to get the same bonus. If the bonus was reasonable to obtain with out drastically changing the way you play then I wouldn't have an issue with it. Since I feel it will have a negative impact on the majority of the players I feel it is a bad move.

Lol this is still going..... Sorry I can't help but chime in once more.

First, lets get rid of the labels "solo player" and "lone wolf", and instead try something like "league-less." There are too many comments by people who think league-less players only want to run solo content. As someone pointed out, that simply isn't true. Some do like it, but not all league-less.

Second, can we get rid of the mentality that this game was solely created for people to run nothing but group content? Too many complaints about solo content that players "have to" run in order to stay on par. Games evolve. Were you there when it was created? Did you overhear devs say there'd be nothing but group content? Is it a rock solid rule that all MMOs should have nothing but group content written somewhere? Too many comments saying stuff like "devs gave you" and "what do we get." All playable content is available to all players. People complaining about having to run solo content have it in their heads that this game was made just for leagues, and that devs broke that unwritten rule by catering to the league-less.

Third, before all this drama there have been suggestions for leagues, and while I have not read them all, I highly doubt that anyone came out and suggested that leagues be made more powerful than everyone else or that leagues should have access to more stats than everyone else. Such a person would have received nothing but negative response from the PUG community and I doubt many, if any, league members would have supported such a selfish idea. But hey, now that the devs have done it for you, you're free to get behind it with your full support, no guilt, no worries. XD I guess by my own logic I have to accept that there isn't any written rule that says this game needs to be fair either lmao. To hell with the league-less... let's weed them out while still allowing & supporting league-less players. We'll do it by giving leagues stat boosts that the league-less can't get... you know, we'll just kinda reward them with extra power for using the league function the way it was intended and for that function working as intended. No no, they don't have to do anything extra, just keep on playing the game as usual. Why? Because simply spicing up leagues with new features, functions and whatever have you simply isn't enough... they must be made BETTER than everyone. When the league-less get a hold of this there ain't nothing they can do 'cept quit or get on board.

^
This reminds me of the Sat Night Live skit where the undecided voter demands to know where their "stuff" is.

Ted Koppel: Ma'am? Do you have a question?

Undecided Voter 1: See, it's like, you look all around, and you see all this stuff? And, everybody's got stuff but me! Where's mine?! Where's MY stuff?! I'm young, man! I should have stuff, too! WHERE'S MY STUFF?!!

Undecided Voter 1: [ twitching ] Where's my stuff, man?!

Undecided Voter 1: I'm... not voting 'til I get my stuff!

Ah the great contradiction

When it is something that is up you alley, it is available to all players.

When it is something you might not like, it is an unfair benefit to others.

Leagues are available to you. League bonuses will be available to you. You may choose to do as you wish.

Iconics are available to me. The bonuses from getting those feats are available to me. I may choose to do what I wish.

I don't like to solo so I am passing. League-less prefer not to join so they are passing. I don't complain, but league less do.

See the contradiction?

Why is okay when things in this game work for you but not okay when it isn't up you alley? As a previous poster mentioned, league less people are being a bit selfish .

To recap, in you word, league boosts are available to all players. If someone chooses not to utilize this tool in their game play, it is their own decision.

Honestly, I would just recommend you all join EL SOLOLOBO. League policy dictates league members can NOT communicate in any way. Together forever. Forever alone. Interested parties mail DIAM0ND JIM - in game.

I think this thread has sort of devolved "i'm right" "no, I'm right"... and the main thread in Dev Discussions is locked and League Halls is on Test.

Just want to say thanks to everyone for the debate and to particularly to Devs for jumping in with explanations.
As players we can't always agree on everything... but it doesn't mean we can't have fun disagreeing.

NO. There isn't any contradiction here. For the first time there is content that cannot be had by all players regardless of whether or not they're in a league. In other words, before this every SP, every piece of gear, every power, and every kind of stat could be obtained by everyone no matter if they were in a league or not. NOW this is league-only.

Keep acting like you don't comprehend... it looks good on you.

Going to go ahead and lock this as the thread as seemingly ran it's course.