What if... an idea of total revamp of the sp

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by mexmex, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. CS2016 Committed Player

    I hope it doesn't mean less then it does now lol, but I get what you were saying.
    • Like x 1
  2. Tsavorentless Dedicated Player

    There were more people when sp mattered . Pvp phase is empty in open world because of am's. They should only be allowed in pve phase.

    People leaving over getting sp i'd laugh because there isn't anything to do. Go get them seriously!!!! Been gone 3 yrs n have almost everything I can do at this time done.

    They should matter period!
    • Like x 1
  3. IceRaider Dedicated Player

    I had an idea where we could place sp into crafting stats... I haven't put anything solid together but could next week. They could allow us to use skill points in a way to boost the stats mods provide to our gear, increase the stats boost from specialty soders. I'd also like to if we can't get more customization for our sidekicks or backup to maybe use trash gear to place on them to make them better. Of course we can mod their gear exo mods and/or new base mods designed specifically for their gear. If that's implemented then we could then place sp into our sidekick/backup gear boosts. Just some ideas thrown out there.
    • Like x 1
  4. MEBegnalsFan Devoted Player

    Right now a player with max SP can obtain all tier 3 bonuses. They have to do something soon.
    • Like x 1
  5. seek76 Committed Player

    According to the census, only 1823 characters have greater than 250 sp. Why must something be done now, for so few characters?
  6. boredbean Level 30

    If they ever make SP more relevant, they absolutely need to implement a SP catch-up mechanic. Something to the effect of, the more behind you are the more points you get for a feat. How can we ever expect this game to succeed on any real level, if the grind for new players is too daunting. If I encourage a friend to give this game a shot, how long will they actually stay if he has to spend his first 2-6 months grinding feats and CR just to catch up to current standards and group with us for new content. Most modern MMO games have a catch up mechanic for this reason alone. They wan't to encourage new players, not discourage them.

    Veterans need to drop this mentality of, "we had to do it, so they have to too. it if they make it easier than that will be unfair."
  7. mexmex Dedicated Player

    Well if you would have spend time and money in the game as someone commited to the game for lets say 4 years, you would think differently but again, the problem is people want to get everything without playing for it, as it is now, new players are allow to reach end game within a week if they play a lot and not only that but also want to perform as vet player too, so then what is the point in keep playing a game where progresion means nothing as everyone will be there at the top with just a few hours of gameplay? Even after they make breaks for a year, I might better unsub and come back in two years just to catch up
  8. mexmex Dedicated Player

    Well seems we are doom as a community all those players with no sp are just pulling back the game to the nonsense leveling system and that is why more and more people its just leaving, since all the hard play means nothing, the community is divided between comited players and the casual ones who just want to be as good as the commited ones, and the game is going down the hill with easy content dumb in some cases, and people still asking for more nerfs, they are bringing the game down really fast, I dont blame the devs they are in an ugly crossroad here.
  9. boredbean Level 30

    How can having a community that kicks and excludes new players in new and exciting content for not having SP's, be to the betterment of the game? You act like new players don't have the potential to be "committed" to the game. New players are put in a real bad spot for simply being 'new". Veterns were here when the old content went live, they had groups of people that wanted to get all the feats and achievements because that was all the fresh content at the time. New players are just trying to catch up so they can play with their friends in new content.

    I don't understand how people want new players to be subjected to 4 years of feat grinding (If they are fortunate enough to get help) just so they can participate in relevant content. By the time they get close to the veterns SP level in CR and SP from when they subbed, they will be 1-6 months behind again in SP and CR.
    • Like x 2
  10. Harlequin Devoted Player

    This is why the devs really, really need to reinvent the progression system in this game. The existence of SP and how you earn them is an instant turn-off to new players because it is a MAJOR hurdle to get over, at least from a perception standpoint. DBG has done what they can to make it less daunting by not making SP something that is required to complete content but the community at large (PUGs, mostly) still excludes anyone below some artificial threshold of what they consider to be "enough SP." They still provide player power and are mandatory if you want to be all you can be. The number of SP that you need to be viable versus diminishing returns is hotly debated but what all sides can agree on is that SP are, in some number, necessary for character development. That also means that new players will always be behind and may think they can never catch up.

    We are all the same level and it never increases so no need for a catch-up mechanism there. We can all earn the same gear and there are catch-up mechanisms in place in the form of solos/duos so people can get up to a respectable enough CR to run the current episode's content relatively quickly. However, there is no way to catch up on SP relatively quickly and easily so the population will always be segregated into the haves and have-nots. Over time (months if not years) it is possible to catch up as they are only adding 1-3 SP per episode but it is still a daunting task to do so and the community is not patient or accommodating to many of these players. They will spend this time being excluded by a great many players due to their SP deficit. This needs to change.

    Honestly, I believe it is a mistake to tie stats to SP at all. Yes, they are a timesink and rewards should be given for feats but power? Nope. Look at the elephant, WoW. Each expansion increases the level cap, providing a soft-reset of the game that puts most of the population on the same level playing field. They hit the new cap and start gearing up. That's where effort and skill take the lead with aggressive guilds clearing content and gaining power in the form of gear. This continues all through the expansion as new content is released until it is time to do it again. This race keeps players occupied and engaged. For those who do not participate, there is crafting, reps, achievement hunting, pets, mounts, toy collecting, exploration, PvP and a ton of other stuff to do. However, at it's core, WoW is a race to gear up and clear bosses and it is successful (Warlords aside, worst expansion ever) because everyone has a chance to participate due to the reset at the start of an expansion.

    What they do right with their achievements is the reward structure. There are tons of achievements to earn, some of them hair-ripping-out difficult to get at tier. The rewards include mounts, pets, titles and other status symbols to flaunt in front of your fellow players. What these achievements do not do is provide any form of player power whatsoever. Even without that carrot, TONS of players, myself included, hunted achievements at an almost OCD level of interest because we need to finish them all. They even show our achievement points under our names on the Blizzard boards. It's fun and accessible to everyone. That's what is missing from the system here.

    IMO, DCUO should remove all stat gains from gaining feats entirely. Yup, I said it. Level the playing field once and for all. Just do it. Instead of SP from feats, switch to an XP based skill progression system so players can unlock extra weapons and combos by playing the game. Still, there should be no stats gained by spending SP. None. Convert feats to a vanity system like the achievements in WoW. Reward unique auras, styles, titles, pets, toys, trinkets and whatever else they can think of for completing feats and people will still do them. The more variety of rewards there are, the more people will hunt feats to get them. However, NO PLAYER POWER at all.

    So, we boil it down to this. We hit level 30 (since they seem unwilling to increase the cap) with 15+ SP from that experience. We may even have earned some feats and gotten some neat toys from them. Now, we start gearing up and running content, gaining power in the form of gear and character customization in the form of XP-based SP gains (with a level cap) that allow us to spec into more weapons and combos, even accessing WM if it stays in the game. As we hit a certain power level, the grind becomes real. The content at this point should have real staying power and not be able to be steamrolled 30 mins after launch so there is something to progress towards. That is how the race works. Get everyone to the starting line and fire off the pistol. We all have the same opportunity to gain power but those who put in the time and effort will gain more of it faster, as it should be.

    Every few months, provide a soft-reset of the playing field in the form of new gear to chase and the cycle continues. This time between resets needs to be long enough for players to enjoy the fruits of their labor by chasing the feats in the content for the rewards that come with them or whatever else they want to do with their uber-gear. If the time is too short, not enough people will finish the race or have time to enjoy their rewards and they will become discouraged. If the time is too long, there is no reason for the race as everyone will eventually get there or players who "win" the race will become bored.

    This is a somewhat high-level overview of how I believe progression should be. A lot of the fine details are intentionally absent as there are multiple paths to take to accomplish the overall goals of the system which is to provide for both a way for newer players to not feel they are so far behind that they can never catch up (current SP system) as well as for there to be ways for long-term and/or dedicated players to be able to be rewarded for their time and effort spent in the game.

    Flame on.
    • Like x 4
  11. boredbean Level 30

    Thank you! These are my thoughts exactly, you articulated it perfectly. Until the Devs actually read this and understand the problem, the community will continue to be divided and sometimes toxic to new players.
  12. Mohican378 Dedicated Player

    This is the most intelligent idea I have read about feats.

    It still boggles my mind that people put so much stock in what is supposed to be an optional collection mini-game. That's what feats are. That's why after the first 77sp, which is easily attainable by simply playing, everything extra is gravy, and stat gain is fairly negligible in the long run.

    Bragging rights. That's what feats should be for. Nothing more, nothing less. Tying bragworthy awards like auras etc. is a fantastic idea.
  13. mexmex Dedicated Player

    Are you talking about the 2 per cent of the community that actually have over 200SP?, so what if that percentage of the community excludes low sp players, or is it that you just want to play with them and not with the low sp player base?
    Im not saying new people cant commit. Im saying that people who ask nerfs and handouts are hurting the game, because they are, so ask yourself is it the vets or the new people who are always asking for these? thanks to them the gameplay, alerts and raid have been dumbdown, even the "elite" are easier than old content at level.
    I dont understand how new players want to erase those four years of grinding from the vets, four years of expanse in money and time.

    So are you the kind of low sp player that refuses to play with other low sp player, I have seen lots of them in game, if you have low sp and you are feeling exluded from the high sp players, dont worry you are been excluded from less than 2% of the player base so who cares isnt? unless you want to keep been carried fast trough content
  14. ErnieB Loyal Player

    You do realize it isn't a revamp of SP at all, it's just changing how the game reads your damage from CR to stats, SP will stay the same.
  15. Gimpy Loyal Player

    The players who keep on saying it should be easier for those just joining the game are the reason for threads like this all over the forums.

    Making the statement it would take to long for a new player to level up to the CR and Sp of anyone is simply another cry for it to be EASY.

    A player can create a character and be at T7 CR in 2-3 days on their own and less if done with friends or league mates.

    A player wanting to get SP when they actually matter again will not have a problem of grinding since those same friends and league mates will be helping with the feats.

    If spending the time or the RB for those that require multiple missions to complete ( like strykers or arkham) seems boring or unfair then don't do them.

    By not doing them you will be missing other feats that are results of getting feats from what you don't want to do. That is not unfair, it is your choice.

    Anyone who believes a player at 160 with 80 SP did it by themselves is delusional and should see a Doctor about refilling their meds.

    Quit asking for easy because you are the reason they started fixing what wasn't broken.

    If you want easy go play ANGRY BIRDS.
    • Like x 1
  16. LightOfQuantum Committed Player

    I think we should force the idea of 200+ sp requirement for new raids. Only accept people with 200+ sp to your group. That way people with low sp may finally start to farm sp and actually learn this game instead of being carried.
    • Like x 1
  17. mexmex Dedicated Player

    I do agree with lots of your point and I think you post its on point:
    Less than 2% of the community have over 200sp, so if maybe half of those players exclude low sp players, why it is a big deal?, low sp still have a 99% of the player base to play with isn´t?, and that !% earn the right to play with people alike only if they want.

    So new players can play with other new players or low sp players can play with other low sp players it is most of the community anyway, the problem is that low sp players dont want to play with other low sp players because they want to be carried in all instances with ease, and believe me I have seen it several times. Ask yourself when you see a shout asking for need 200+sp if it is an elite group or a low sp looking to be pass the content without struggle, and you ll see most of the cases is a low sp player I have wavedoxed lot of people with those shouts. Except in survival mode time is when a lot of those shouts are legit but survival is intended for those "elite players" is the only content there is for them; nothing wrong in that.

    When you say level the field once and for all, dont you think that if they do that regardless, in five more years people will still complaint if they are new to the party LOL, but if they do that then can say good bye the few of the vets still playing asking for stats matter more, nor less.

    that is on the complainers always asking for nerfs and handouts the content is so dumb nowaday, if people cant take the time to get a a few sp from time to time why would they want to struggle in such a race. come on the feats from the content since monthly started are so dumb and easy with the exception of not dying in the elite, the rest of them are achievable in no time, and still people want to skip those, I did BN last week and I asked if someone needed the rainbow feat first boss, NO1 reply or said anything, after struggling and wiping twice while everyone was 159 cr+ I wavedox the entire group I was with my alt 200sp tank, the rest had less than 100sp no wonder why we were wiping, they had no clue how to play, loadout, block and roll the fight ws a huge mess, and that is on the devs, I dont have to explain end content players how to play I´ve done it enough times already

    This division and exclusion yes it might come from some elite players but there are such a few that is not important, it come from people far from being elite or expert wanting to play only with those players instead of playing with their alike fellows.
  18. mexmex Dedicated Player

    The purpose of the thread wasn´t a discussion between high Sp players vs lowSP players, It was to provide an idea of what the dev team could do with the SP regardless if you have them or not, and to others talk about other ideas of how those should or could be used toward progression
  19. Mohican378 Dedicated Player

    So you want to exclude 98% of the player base from the new content that you're trying to get them to buy. Remind me not to hire you in any business capacity, ever.

    Seriously, do y'all put ANY thought into these statements before you make them?

    I don't agree with the OP's idea of using SP to enhance powers, because, as mentioned it takes away the need to make choices in what kind of toon you want to play, and removes the sacrifices made to play that style.

    That said, I think its commendable that he's at least taken the time to think something out.

    A better idea is the other one mentioned in this thread, regarding removing skill points as rewards for feats and instituting superficial bragging rights, like rare titles, and special auras.

    Tying SP to the feats system wasn't a terrible idea back when the game launched. SP weren't a necessity, but they made a difference.

    As time has gone by, and stats have been inflated well past what was originally imagined, they have become nothing but a way to discriminate, because the fact is, there's not a single piece of content that requires you to take part in what is essentially a collection mini-game that was originally tied to trophies until they ran out of trophies. Stat gains are negligible from SP after 77. Did you outdamage me and beat me on the scoreboard with more SP? Maybe. Who cares? there's no reward for coming in first in a team based game, and I still completed the content and got my loot. Go on with your bad self. Pat yourself on the back. Nobody else is going to, because nobody cares. No group has ever wiped because of low SP. That's a fact.

    It's ironic how much stock is put into having high SP considering at any given time, there are like 13 out of 1300 feats that are difficult to attain. The rest only require patience.

    I also have to say, I've been playing this game a long time. Maybe I'm lucky, but I've only ever been kicked once, and I've never had anybody ask me for an SP number. I really don't think most people care. I think this is, like the "High CRs are ruining low tier content", something that rarely actually happens in game. But you know how the forums go.
  20. Tsavorentless Dedicated Player

    They don't need to appliment a catch up feat for anything. I was just gone almost 3 yrs and I have them cept for seasonal n lpve ciz the rotations arent here yet.

    For the current hard feats you need to know the mechanics. Some of the older ones are harder cuz people burn too fast if you que up. The only episode feats you shouldn't have is the newest episode and that's if you don't know how to play the game.

    3 yrs gone basically and I'm 420 of 420 guys. U can't say well u play alot!!! A month and done. I was at 190 n I'm at 253. In 3 weeks I'll be 260!!!!

    It should stay the way it is and it should seperate the good and bad players because that's what a mmo is supposed to be.

    I'm sorry I don't want a player being 260 and they still don't know what pot an immunity or what a blue is!

    What your asking is ridiculous!!!! Some of u want an easy button then go back to ur yesteryears n play wi GI Joes!