What happened?!?

Discussion in 'Battle of the Legends (PvP)' started by Jimp88, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. Ringz Dedicated Player


    Your statement is false and also reversed. Although both sides of the faction affected one another, it was more so PVP whos enjoyable factor got moved around because of PVE. PvPers generate as much /or I'll even argue as more money than PvE side did. If we're accounting players who played for a good while, skill points mattered for pvp so you had to do pve content and exclusively to get sp. Also paying for legendary was the best option, along with buying additional armories. Pvpers were definitely contributing as much as pvers.

    WM, Movement M, and powers have never been nerfed because of pvp lol. Weapon mastery had a good run of ruining(while it was deemed fun) pvp then they disabled wm crit for pvp- not nerfed. Movement being "gimped" by pvp was never a thing. Properties were changed but nothing that affected your actual usage. Powers getting nerfed were never soley because the devs were listening to pvp feedback. If anything pvpers had to adjust to unexpected ninja nerfs/buffs because who knows why. ( word on the streets was ninja buffs/nerfs happen on purpose to sell respec tokens)

    If anything to take from this pve and pvp could not be function seperately.
    • Like x 1
  2. VariableFire Loyal Player

    Oh please, show me where PVP (besides Legends) generates money, I dare you. All you can point to is some nebulous "subbing" which you don't actually need to do to play PVP at all. Everything that you had to pay money for to PVP became free because of the PVP community if it wasn't free from the outset.

    And your memory is suspect when you "forget" that WM melee damage was destroyed because the risk/reward factors are reversed between PVP and PVE.

    Oh, and I forgot the gimping of backups and sidekicks damage-wise. They were barely out before they got gimped because of PVP abuse. That gimping affected PVE long after they were removed from PVP.
  3. L T Devoted Player

    While this is doubtlessly the Dev's perspective, I can't help but feel it's short sighted.

    Having a robust PVP community is good for the game.

    More players, even totally free players, makes the game better, more enjoyable, and hence, more valuable to everyone. Plus it's more than likely that at least some of the PVPers that come back will break down and spend $5 on time capsules now and again-- they're really an impulse buy.
    • Like x 1
  4. Scarlet Mysty Loyal Player

    You can just as easily say that about PvE. You don't need to sub to PvE. You're just being intentionally dense about it.

    As for WM Melee damage I have literally no idea what you think you are talking about, you'll have to be more specific. Unless my memory fails me before the revamp (which btw was PvE oriented) melee WM & AM's melted everything. I don't remember melee WM getting destroyed prior to the revamp but perhaps I misunderstand what you mean?
    • Like x 1
  5. VariableFire Loyal Player

    WM Melee used to do more damage than WM Range because of the Risk/Reward factor in PVE. Because the Risk/Reward is flipped for PVP, they decided to nerf WM Melee hard to doing around the same damage as normal melee combos. The big reason at all to use WM melee was for power conservation at that point. And then AMs started up and WM Melee was pretty much done.
  6. Scarlet Mysty Loyal Player

    I'm having trouble time-lining this event. I don't remember it happening. There was a point at which normal combos were buffed to match and even exceed WM's but that was due to the weapons pass. From my memory WM has never been nerfed, it's just that normal combos were buffed in the weapons pass and AMs were introduced and they were so OP they mostly rendered WM obsolete, but that's not the same as a nerf and it certainly can't be blamed on PvP.
  7. VariableFire Loyal Player

    Your memory is wrong. The irony of the nerf happening is that it was within weeks of them promising that changes in PVP would not affect PVE. It was very near the beginning of Weapon Mastery.
  8. Ringz Dedicated Player


    As far as asking what revenue wise pvp generated, well I can start with FOTM powers. You wanna talk about bandwagoners to the fullest, nothing was more toxic as pvp kids then. Especially if we talking wins that correlated to their egos. Either way, that is still pockets to the devs money because of pvp. And then let some hidden "glitch" be discovered by someone to exploit in pvp or the nerfs/buffs. Respec tokens were definitely lucrative for pvp.

    Let me tell you the timeframe I know of regarding pvp. There were
    • WM taking 75% health 2013-2014
    • Normal ender combos 1 shot ( 1 handed flip slash) 2015- Jan 2016
    • AMs killing opponent in seconds (munitions shotgun, fire flame cascade, celestial powers, HL etc etc etc) 2016 - before stats revamp.
    Since 2013 pvp has been downgrading and had no help whatsoever regarding updates. Idk what era you're mentioning but 2013-14 is the only era that WM was dominate, then they tried to do some sort of weapon pass that was incomplete and turn off crits activator in pvp. But how you're explaining your explaining from something that happen in 2016+. Either way no update that I know of since then was soley to satisfy pvpers.
    • Like x 1
  9. Scarlet Mysty Loyal Player

    My memory may be wrong (although I doubt it) about your claim, but the events I described happened as I described.

    I've checked update notes and hotfixes since WM was introduced with AF1, particularly near the beginning as you described. Nothing like what you are describing is listed in any patchnotes or hotfixes. I have done enough due diligence to conclude that you are either incorrect, or the timeline you have given me is incorrect.

    I am happy to be proved otherwise if you care to evidence your claim. However given that the introduction of WM & AMs were at the height of my playtime and I have very strong memories of all the other changes that effected WM & AMs I find your claim highly suspect which is why I questioned it in the first place.
    https://dcuniverseonline.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Hotfixes
    https://dcuniverseonline.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Game_Update
    • Like x 2
  10. VariableFire Loyal Player

    So your defense is a wiki that anyone can edit?
  11. Scarlet Mysty Loyal Player

    Not a defence of anything you are the one making the claim, i'm actually going above and beyond trying to verify your claim in case my memory really is failing me. However your salty attitude and responses should have made me realising doing that research really wasn't worth the time.

    But since that is your response, Is your defence is that the information is not copy pasted directly from the forums here? oh right you don't know because you didn't check. Are you saying that someone edited it to remove the history you're talking about? oh yea thats right you don't know because you didn't check. Are you saying people have been editing in false information? oh yea thats right you don't know you because you didn't check.

    Feel free to respond, but I feel I have wasted enough time responding to you and your attitude. I actually remember your name and thought a reasonable conversation could be had.....how wrong I was.
    • Like x 2
  12. Awsome Well-Known Player

    100%!
    I used to know 30 or 40 players back when I was big into pvp who loved the old pvp system. 0 of them still play. I'm the last of my old group. We ALL liked the PvE part of this game, but what kept most of us coming back was the excitement of the battlefields. If pvp would ever get fixed, I bet at least 5 or 6 would come back (too many of them are pretty jaded). Its not great, but I'm sure Im not the only person who primarily pvp'ed, who doesn't know a ton of people who left.

    My point is, While PVP isn't a main money driver, it fortifies a strong player base. With more subscribers comes more money. You don't need to depend on things like TCs so much when you have a strong constant revenue stream, something that a PvP system helps support.

    Let me put it another way. PvP to a game like this is like the kidneys. If you lose one kidney and the other one is sick, you can still be alive, but you will spend most of your life in the hospital, being propped up by dialysis. Getting a new kidney grants you a new lease on life. Same with PvP. If that ever got fixed, I bet a lot of you would be surprised by the growing base.

    That is all.
    • Like x 3
  13. Brit Loyal Player

    Open World PvP was never good. Even at launch, it was just roving bands of one faction, finding solo players who were lower level than them, and then waiting until they were engaged with an NPC and at half life before swooping in to kill them with a risk-free ambush. It never served any purpose beyond griefing.

    Players who wanted to measure their skills against other players queued into actual PvP matches with equal levels and equal numbers and similar objectives. And in return for doing something that was actually competitive and balanced, they actually received rewards for their time, got marks, were able to purchase gear, and so on.

    If you want to PvP, then queue up. I had 10 1v1s Monday morning before reset, and then started running 2v2s for the first hour after reset. There are still people doing PvP. But judging PvP based on the open world PvP Shards isn't a good metric; go to the PvE Shard and you'll see that the open world is similarly empty because most players are already level 30 and there's really no point in going into the open world sandbox outside of the odd seasonal event.
  14. Chia Death Well-Known Player

    Yeah, I mean hell, not like I expect people to do their job that they applied for and are employed at for pay if their feelings are getting hurt. /s
    • Like x 2
  15. DemonLordMomo New Player

    So all the wars that happened back then must have meant that open world pvp was never good. Fight club must mean open world pvp was never good. Seriously? Devs even spawned in enemies during the wars we had. So that must mean it had some sort of interest. Its empty now because pvp is indeed at its lowest. Saying it was never good just because we attacked low levels and were level 30 is highly incorrect.
    • Like x 2
  16. L T Devoted Player

    The problem is, absent stat clamping, it's not possible to go back to those days.
  17. Soul Dedicated Player

    While the competitive PvP scene was in the Arena and through scrimmage when the function was introduced, Open World PvP was a much bigger, way more active PvP scene that was never about "Skill", It was a free open world interaction between factions, and to some it was a he*l of a lot more fun than the competitive scene.

    It's a video game, at the end of the day its purpose is for us to have fun.

    I've played with the best PvPers in the best leagues on USPC since DNG server and up until a year after merge with USPS, even during our best Arenas and Scrims I never even once thought to myself "this is way better than Open World". Totally different and incomparable.

    This:


    Cannot be compared to this:



    The most fun I personally had in this game was in open world, and it was never about being good, it was just pure PvP chaos with no rules or restrictions.

    GM RuggedMonk used to show up like in this clip and mess around with us, turned all of us into robots and spawn raid bosses on us.. I can't put into words how much fun this game used to be because of its active open world PvP scene, that was systematically destroyed by their decisions. Sad, very very sad.
    • Like x 3
  18. DemonLordMomo New Player

    But something can be introduced and tested thoroughly. It should be tested for quite awhile before being launched.
  19. Awsome Well-Known Player

    This is not true at all. PVP open world was the most fun I have ever had in this game. Yes, sometimes you would get ganked by a group of villains, but when you go back with a group and re-take the territory they were trying to hold, it was fun has heck. And don't forget about the all-out wars we used to have. Incredible!

    Now PvP is broken beyond repair. I say reset it to what we had at launch and adjust it from there, because it was never better than at launch.
    • Like x 3
  20. Brit Loyal Player


    I was also on the old Death & Glory server and I remember those days. When I say Open World PvP was not good, I mean that. It wasn't good. It was fun, yes. I did it. A lot of did on Death & Glory, because it was a PvP server and everyone who made characters on it, to some extent or another, really enjoyed PvP. When I say it wasn't "good", I mean exactly that. It was not well designed.

    As you yourself pointed out, open world PvP had nothing to do with skill. It was assymetrical teams fighting with level and gear differentials that made the fights entirely one-sided and predetermined before they even began. Again, I'm not saying that can't be fun; but the fact remains that it was never remotely balanced. So then, if it wasn't balanced in it's inception, then the cries of "PvP is broken" because of a lack of balance is suddenly placed into a different light. No PvP patches or changes would actually affect that, because that was never an important part of what open world PvP meant.

    The fact is, Open World PvP didn't die because of balance issues or PvP changes or whatnot. Open World PvP died because the Open World died. When the game first launched, the vast majority of players were in the open world. The majority of the content was the leveling arcs, along with hunting for Collections and whatnot. There was very little instanced endgame content then. Just Khandaq and Outer Caverns for raids, and barely a handful of duos and alerts. Because the Open World was where the players were, you would see players all over the place. People leveling, people searching for collections, people just hanging out at the Superman statue to chat. So if you wanted to PvP, you could. That was the beauty of the "not good" open world PvP system. If you saw somebody and you wanted to PvP, they didn't have a choice. They made that decision when they chose a PvP server.

    As additional content was added, the game became increasingly more instanced. As it became more instanced, the open world died. Not the Open World PvP; the Open World EVERYTHING. Today I have no doubt there are more players on USPCPS server than there was on one single server of the pre-Megaservers. But fly around Gotham or Metropolis and you will barely see anyone. Instead, everybody is crowded into the Watchtower, or running instanced content. The game's playerbase shifted to hubs so that players could more easily build groups. And when there stopped being sufficient numbers of people in the open world, there were no longer the victims for people to hunt.

    PvP players who were interested in skill or competition were primarily interested in the Arenas and Legends. Players who cared about rewards and character progression similarly pushed to instanced PvP because that was incentivized, while Open World PvP gave trivial amounts of influence and no Marks. So the only people left who were interested in the Open World PvP were the people who didn't want fair fights, and didn't care about rewards, but only wanted to have those massive brujahs "just for fun". And they couldn't have those brawls anymore, because there were no longer people in the Open World for them to target. Turns out, nobody wanted to just fly around Metropolis for 20 minutes to look for one victim. And if you did find and kill someone, then they could just port back to the Watchtower with their quicktravel, shift to the PvE shard, and then return to their leveling without having to allow any ongoing conflict or back and forth.

    My point was not that Open World PvP was a bad thing when it existed. I didn't say that it was bad. I said that it was not good. And therein lies the difference. It never had a purpose. It never had an incentive. It only existed because players were forced to do it, forced to enter an open world to level, and forced to be PvP status full-time on PvP servers without an option to toggle safety in. It was fun, but it was never good enough to stand on it's own, and so the second the sandbox element to the game started to empty out, Open World PvP absolutely failed to provide anybody with a reason to actually go back into the open world.

    And even that is only peripheral to the thread discussion. The point the original poster made was that they believed PvP was in bad shape because of a lack of Open World PvP. I see zero correlation. PvE players are also not in the open world, but that does not mean that people have stopped raiding. There is still PvP going on. I've been banging out a minimum of 10 matches a day since I finished with Metal and had time to kill. And yes, there are areas of PvP that do feel imbalanced to me. But the pulse of the PvP community seems to be more in line with people who actual want balance and want skill to matter.

    If you want to slaughter people in a one-sided and unfair PvP exchange these days, you don't have to bring your level 30 character to hunt their level 5s. Instead, you just bring your Atomic Tank into an arena and melt everybody else who cannot out-damage your healing.