What exactly does "Elite" mean?

Strictly my opinions here, but my thoughts are that 'Elite' versions are about unforgiving mechanics, rather than simply amping up the damage and health.

An 'Elite' version of a raid should not be something that is overcome by getting better gear (at least not unless we are talking a HUGE upgrade in gear). It's not a matter of the boss dealing 20% more damage, or having twice as much health. It's about making the fight require flawless execution. It's about forcing players, regardless of their gear, to have a grasp on the mechanics to the point they are not making sloppy mistakes and they are not expecting other players to pick up that slack.

Case in point: 1 rally. That is the first huge hurdle that people new to Elites tend to struggle with. They have really great damage, or healing, or whatever, but then they get hit with a one-shot kill. Somebody picks them up. Fifteen seconds later, they get one-shotted again. Whelp. You're out. Done-zo. You failed your team. The Elite raids require a player to know how and when to push that block button that otherwise has been collecting dust. It is not good enough to expect your healers to heal you through everything; your life is in your own hands, and you are only entitled to make one mistake per fight. You mess up a second time, and you are out.

That is what the Elites are built on. Making it so that the mechanics are so essential that a player cannot simply ignore the mechanics and bullheadedly push through them. You cannot fail to block on the heavy attacks. You cannot miss a prompt for an AE that is about to spawn beneath you. You cannot neglect to move out of the way of a deadly attack. You have to stop from your semi-sleeping rotation, and instead pay attention to every single thing happening around you, because the mechanics are all dialed up.

The CR requirements explain it perfectly. The CR needed for the Elite Raids is essentially the same as the normal raids. It is intended that they should be completeable in the same gear. However, the Elite Raids clearly state that they have a much higher difficulty level. How can they be much more difficult without requiring better gear? It's because the gear is not what is important; it's the mechanics. In the Normal version, if you have a Shield up, you might survive the one-shot without blocking. In the Elite version, you don't. You don't get to ignore the mechanics while other people power you through them. You must follow the mechanics or die and be eliminated.

So, should Elite raids be completeable on day one? Absolutely yes. They should not require players to grind the full suit of gear before going in, because the gear should not make the difference. However, the only people completing the Elite raids should be the people who have a firm command of every mechanic. Which, on day one, means either people who have already worked at it on the test server, or people who go to the trouble of learning the raids correctly on day one. Queue up for normal, run it, see the mechanics. Learn how it works. Learn how to do it correctly. Queue up for Elite. Fail multiple times as you realize exactly how sloppy you were. Then slowly polish your gameplay until you're operating perfectly.

The difference between a Regular and Elite was never intended to be 50CR. The difference was intended to be for people who want to play the game with flawless execution, versus people who want to be able to play without ever touching their block button.

LOLz I was interrupted while typing that up and didn't realize I did that number already before coming back form dinner.

Judging from your reply, you have disassociated yourself from NotSoChill. I would then like to point out that you shouldn't lump me in with anyone else either. Just because a league mate or someone else who is arguing against this point of view is posting in the same thread as me doesn't mean we're coordinating our responses to people.


I would say that in this situation your opinion may have aligned with someone who is always at the center of controversy. Being that the person has such a hard time with so many others and that the majority of people do not agree with many of his ideas should make you pause and re-evaluate your position. I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but do you really want to be thrown in with the likes of him on any particular issue?

I get that you want to re-evaluate what elite means in this game, but have you stopped to think that the target audience of elite isn't the same group of people you think it is?

Elite content right now is more difficult that the normal versions. We can all agree on that. Where we do not agree is what you envision elite content to be versus what the development team wants it to be. It's entirely possible that their goal with elite content is different than what you think, and in that case I don't think you have a very good argument for changes. Until you point out specific places where the content should be changed I can't really agree with the generality of the idea your proposing in this thread.

I could point to various ways to improve elite content but we'd first have to come to an agreement that elite should be reworked or buffed. Without a consensus it would be foolish of me to impose my specific ideas on the community. That and I also wanted to see what other people thought before throwing out suggestions that would just be shot down or overlooked. I am intrigued by your statement of whether or not the target audience is who I think it is, and honestly if this were clarified it would probably end this debate because from where I stand, it appeared that the Devs had the very top players in mind hence the name. But if they branded it as just a "version that's slightly harder" I'd have no problem because then at least I'd know it's not meant to push the boundaries of gameplay. As far as the whole remarks about reevaluating my stance based on who I happen to align with, I find that irrelevant. I can and always have been able to separate issues from the person speaking, regardless of whether or not it's Obsidian speaking, it's a sentiment I share. Nice reply btw, I appreciate the civility.

All jokes aside. That has to be one of the best explanations yet.

Agree basically. Though I have to add: a lot of MMOs coming up and existing require players to do more than just gear up, goes down to manual aiming even. So considering these approaches "elite" should make some people think how low the average skill requirements in DCUO really are. And then realize why the majority of the community is like.... well, like it currently is and nearly always has been

1. I think the final boss should be almost unbeatable day 1 unless you have some new gear and/or augments. If people spam replays to level up augments then sure they can beat the final boss day 1. Beating with previous gear should not happen.
2. Yes. I actually used the random queue for Machine Elite on a weeknight because no LFG groups were forming. I was surprised about 5-6 of the people actually could run it. But there were 2-3 other minimum CR people that had no chance and died immediately on the laser beam.
3. I think DWFE and Hive E are good models for difficulty. First 2 bosses range from easy to hard depending on the group and what adds you get (lots of wasps can make 1st boss hard). Final boss is tough. I don't like "artificial" mechanics like having you die without the level 23 augment in Machine E, but at least you have to level up your augment to get there. Or run around the boss to avoid beam.
4. Yes, as long as there are feats I think everyone should have a say. But I think elite should still be tough and people can go back for feats the next DLC after more gear if needed.
5. Yes, I think everyone's opinion should "matter".
6. I still think it should be hard enough that you need a good group and communication to beat. My first COTE attempt failed because the 3 same people constantly died on 1st boss. Second group went through no problem after 2 tries. It was the first run for lots of people, but once people got used to King Shark's charge then was fine. It will take a few more runs to see if it's good difficulty or not. Because the raids seem easy with a good group, and impossible with a mediocre one. Which is probably the way it should be.