What exactly does "Elite" mean?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (Gameplay Discussion)' started by Light Bender92, Nov 9, 2018 at 4:51 PM.

  1. Light Bender92 Well-Known Player

    I'm creating this thread because I wanted to have a discussion with you guys over what exactly it means to be "elite". A lot of people have differing opinions and so I wanted to see if we as a community could come to some sort of consensus so that the Devs could know what to aim for for future DLCs.

    Some questions I have are:
    1. Should elite raids be accessible day 1 (I.e should it be possible to beat elite with previous DLC gear)?
    2. Should the minimum cr for elite be higher than that of reg?
    3. How do we define difficult? In terms of mechanics (meaning a heavy emphasis on teamwork) or in terms of sheer CR (meaning a heavy emphasis on stats) or both?
    4. If someone identifies as a "casual" player, does their opinion on elite content REALLY matter?
    5. If someone considers themselves an "elite" player, does their opinions regarding regular/event content TRULY matter.
    6. How do we come to a compromise on the premise of elite content if subjectively some people want different things?



    As far as my answers goes (and I'm not saying I'm right this is just my opinion) I believe that:
    1. Elite raids shouldn't be accessible day one. Imo what makes them elite if I can run them and complete them with previous dlc gear (which I have already, and I didn't have max gear either, I completed them both on my 245 room with no OP items and 250ish sp...) I feel that one should at least be somewhat into the DLC in order to get a good grasp on elite content. This isn't a debate on whether or not it has been like this in the past either, that's irrelevant, this is a discussion on what would push the game in a better direction regarding elite content. I make this point because someone in another thread made a comment about how it wasn't like this in the past as if that's a good criticism of the topic at hand. In the past jump canceling, and AMs were a thing, did those remain the same? Lol and now the game is better for it.
    2. Yes. It makes sense. So let's say the minimum for this content was 241 (which it is) then the minimum for elite should be something like 250-252. Basically either as high as the max for the last DLC or a little higher. I say this because elite content is geared towards those that want an extreme challenge. But with this new content, it seems as though it's a "casual" version of "elite" and not an actual "elite" raid. I'm in the camp where if I can beat the elite raids day one, with pug groups at that, then I'm not happy, I'm disappointed.
    3. Obviously it's a mixture of both, however I feel that early on in the DLC it should focus heavily on stats meaning if you are a certain CR, the amount of damage they do alone will almost always do you in. And then later down the line as people progress the raid relies on its various mechanics to keep it "difficult" for those who are approaching max cr.
    4. As harshly as this may sound, I say no. This would be the equivalent of I (a solely pve player) telling a renown PvP player what SHOULD be done to improve PvP gear, content, etc. It's assinine logic. I would trust the players that are experienced in that field to speak on it. Same with elite. If you identify as casual, that's okay, but you should not get a serious say so in the creation of elite because it's not catered towards you and you likely won't be playing it anyways. If the the top leagues in the world were saying something is too low I would trust them because I know their track record, not some random pugs or some of my friends that play causally lol. That would make me want to strive to get to their level in order to beat the content, not have it brought down to appeal to more people.
    5. On the flip side, if you are an "elite" player, then you should leave the reg/event content alone as far as criticism goes. Obviously if something is RIDICULOUSLY easy, or if something is broken then you announce it. But in terms of difficulty, I feel that it should be left to the casuals to decide. I might find reg extremely easy, but if they are happy and that's who it's catered towards, then so be it.
    Expanding on numbers 4 and 5, a lot of times I see people from either camp trying to impose their ideals on each other. If someone wants to play casually, let them play causally (and I say this as an "elitist") but on the flip side, some of you casual guys really settle for mediocrity in the elite raids when MANY are expressing disappointment. Reg and event are catered towards casual play so why even bother fighting against a difficulty increase in elite if that's not your preferred play style anyways? You can't have your cake and eat it too guys. A lot of times I see people being okay with the state of certain raids because they know that they can easily farm that shiny elite set with little difficulty and yeah that may be fun for you but you shouldn't hold those that want a true challenge back.
    Anyways,
    6. This is the hardest one to answer and honestly I don't know. When I think of elite raids I think of borderline impossible to beat unless you're well geared and communication is on point, and obviously that may be an extreme. But at the same time, some of you are ridiculously okay with elite being beaten day by ppl with past DLC gear...... How is it elite then? Lol. It's a tough question but I feel like if we came to some middle ground regarding it we could let the Devs know what we want so we don't get elite content that's at a good difficulty one DLC and then elite content that's basically the same as regular the next lol.

    Thanks for reading.
    • Like x 3
  2. Shark Dental Loyal Player

    The devs know who they are catering all of their content to, and they decide both what "elite" should be, what "casual" should be, and what "progression" should involve.

    The idea that you feel elite raids should cater to the 2% or whatever does not mean that it's who the devs are targeting it with.
    • Like x 3
  3. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    You can't expect to reach consensus on a topic that is heavily subjective.

    These threads also always end badly, the last one has already been closed, this one will end the same way.
    • Like x 13
  4. TybeeTahiri Loyal Player

    It means Little Sister-esque.
    • Like x 1
  5. Light Bender92 Well-Known Player

    It's posts like these that keep the game in the state it's in. Obviously the Devs cater to casuals more, that's how ANY game survives. But if you are creating ELITE content then should you not cater that towards your elite players? What sense does it make to make elite content catered towards casual players? Especially when they have other options? This argument is a poor one because regardless of the size of the demographic, if you are making something for said demographic then it should please that demographic, period. And if we wanna go further, those elite players often times are the ones that spend 100s of dollars on the game and this keep it alive... My point is that if you're going to make elite content, the word casual shouldn't come up in the conversation, it's dishonest. Saying "the Devs decide" blah blah is exactly why people are often dissatisfied with content. It's because they don't listen to criticism. I was trying to improve the state of the game for elite content in particular, if you feel that the game is perfect the way it is that's fine, but I don't need the "the Devs are right, deal with it" speech tbh.
    • Like x 1
  6. Light Bender92 Well-Known Player

    I highly agree, that's why as I mentioned above I'm willing to COMPROMISE. A lot of times I feel like even when I disagree with some of you, I can tell that you genuinely care for the direction the game is going. I merely wanted to see you guys opinions on what you think elite should look like. You can say we'll never reach a consensus, that's fine. But how can we ever improve it or get close to one if we never even discuss it?

    As far as this thread being closed, no one has been disrespectful so far, and I trust you guys to at least be somewhat civil lol. Now if it gets closer anyways, then thatd mean that the Devs don't want us to talk about elite period and that's a little disheartening.
    • Like x 1
  7. TybeeTahiri Loyal Player

    More casual players will pay for replays to get Elite gear. Smoke and mirrors honey.
    • Like x 3
  8. Shark Dental Loyal Player

    Sorry, what?

    You're looking at the situation from a gameplay perspective. The devs look at it from a financial perspective. The two rarely mix.

    Why?

    Because you're asking for content, that costs the same or more to make, that's only usable by a small portion of the player base.

    As for your "elite" players are the paying customers, I would ask you again to define "elite." Is elite to you people who

    a. spend the most on replay badges?
    b. have the most SP from purchasing time capsules?
    c. have maxed artifacts by purchasing XP and seals off the marketplace?
    d. have all OP items because of replay badges or buying from broker?
    d. are genuinely good at the game, no matter how many SP or how high their artifacts are and whether or not they have OP items?

    A-D are the reason elite raids are often the way they are.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not against your idea of "can't beat elite day 1" idea, but I merely pointed out that it doesn't jive with how this game is made, i.e. "replay badges" and "feats."
    • Like x 3
  9. codyxrhstou Well-Known Player

    Based on the atlantis dlc,elite doesnt mean anything.
    • Like x 2
  10. Light Bender92 Well-Known Player

    I didn't want to reply to both of you individually because you guys are pretty much echoing the same sentiment. I understand that they make decisions based on a financial perspective, that's a given. But if you're going to market something as "elite" then make it "elite". I just feel that it's dishonest to say you're going to have regular and event modes for the casual base and then have elite pretty much the same so that said casuals can also spam elite content. I want DC to prosper financially, it's why I don't really care that TCs are in the game despite me disliking them personally. I'm just saying that besides all the semantics, besides the argumenthe that always fall back to "catering to 2%" or "the Devs are always right" or "they do it for money" etc etc, elite should be what it's advertised as, not "casual+" lol.

    Also if we wanna go a little deeper, if hard content would really be detrimental to the game's income, then OC, Throne of the Dead, DWF, And hell even the recent elite raids we just had would've killed the game lol. So although I understand you guys' point, you don't have access to their numbers so you couldn't know, and therefore you're really just arguing with no solid foundation. Now if we got a statement from the Devs that'd be different, but we haven't so let's not make assumptions about their financial status. And let's say OC or DWF saw a significant drop in revenue, could we not attribute that to the fact that there was only ONE option for the raids, and not an event/reg/elite set-up?

    All in all, my point stands. And if we can't even agree that elite raids shouldn't be beaten Day 1, then idk what to say. But if that is the case then just drop elite all together. At least then I'd know what I'm getting into instead of being blue balled half the time.
    • Like x 2
  11. EconoKnight Loyal Player

    The company has to make money. As designed, Elite is a third level of progression - period. It’s not special content for “special” people.

    1% of a population will never spend enough money to make up for those also interested but locked out because of favoritism toward a clique club.
    • Like x 4
  12. NotObsidianChill Well-Known Player

    All the multiple leagues that would grind max gear for 8+ players so that they were ready for SM a couple weeks after the DLC dropped disagree with you.
    • Like x 5
  13. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    Do you have the financial data and receipts for these players?
    • Like x 3
  14. EconoKnight Loyal Player

    And yet, SM was discontinued for lack of interest. They could see the number of people running it - and there were not enough of these supposed grinders to justify the effort to continue SM development.
    • Like x 7
  15. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    Exactly.

    [IMG]
    • Like x 4
  16. NotObsidianChill Well-Known Player

    That was because for almost 3 years of SM renditions it never changed besides the CR scaling and randomizing the boss order but it was still the exact same SM and mechanics year in and year out and got stale. Pretty easy to lose interest when its just the same thing over and over and you are only doing it for server and world firsts.
    • Like x 7
  17. Shark Dental Loyal Player

    Are the people finding elite super easy wearing the Manacles all maxed out per chance? I'm wondering if that has anything to do with the perceived ease as well.
    • Like x 1
  18. Jay Smeezy Committed Player

    BAM!
    • Like x 5
  19. EconoKnight Loyal Player

    And again, they would have continued developing it (making it different) if there were sufficient interest and profit there. This didn’t start with the discontinuation of SM. The dev effort in it declined over time.

    If the end of SM had made a dent in their replay sales numbers, you can bet they would have brought it back. Replay badge sales were not based on people grinding elite gear to run SM. People are still grinding and buying without SM.
    • Like x 4
  20. Jay Smeezy Committed Player

    Just watched the vid on crown elite last boss. If the game doesn’t “do-it” for you then i am genuinely asking...why keep playing? I heard the things you said and it seems like frustration turned to disgust as far as your league’s level of ease to beat it. Instead of the anger filled rant...why not just stop playing?
    • Like x 1

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