What about BUFF Elite content?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (Gameplay Discussion)' started by Xibo, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Zneeak Loyal Player

    Content and progression does go together. You can't just for example make a Hard mode/Nightmare mode in a game and then think that's enough with no other forms of progression and rewards tied to it as compared to the Easy Mode. Makes no sense, please explain how it does.

    What greater grind? The Elite-grind of course. Not sure if you missed it, but it's been kind of what's been discussed in this entire thread for several pages. Higher cost on the gear, less content to play that actually grants renown which is an additional currency needed to unlock the gear for purchase. Ringing any bells?

    Even though Elite content isn't much more difficult than normal content most of the time, it still takes more effort in terms of grind to get the Elite-gear than it takes running normal content to get normal gear. To not have a progressional difference between the two game modes/categories again does not make sense.
    • Like x 1
  2. BUDOKAI101 Well-Known Player

    There is no need to buff elite. Because u want to use what's broken and over performing to make it way faster and easy. There is a high level of balance that needs to be looked into that's what needs a buff.
  3. codyxrhstou Well-Known Player

    In that video I was using hard light shield.I can show you a fire,ice and rage tank loadout but thats out of topic and it should be discussed somewhere else.I still dont get why youre talking about iconic powers as if they're inferior or as if people are using it as some kind of exploit.
  4. codyxrhstou Well-Known Player

    Sure,some players like bragging about their achievements,styles or even their in-game cash.You'll be seeing that on every aspect of the game.Although not everyone wants to complete a challenge just to brag about it to others.Not everyone is chacing to complete styles,to gain billions of cash,maximize sp,stats just to brag about it.
    Since we're talking about elite and how everyone should be able to get the elite gear or the elite feats,titles etc I want to say I personally have no interest on any of those.I wouldnt mind taking out all of them and making elite a more of an sm type (hell even take out the base items) just make it challenging.Problem is the company would get less revenue out of it.So having those is actually helpful for the future of the game
  5. codyxrhstou Well-Known Player

    It only makes it look this way about tanking powers because Crown of Thorns (elite) is only based on the tanks' ability to keep themselves alive.As long as there are solid tanks you dont care how many dpses are alive and what their damage out is.Again if the tanks can handle,there will be no clutch situations for the heals.I shouldnt even talk about trolls.

    New players shouldnt be able to complete elite content.
    We have test server for testing stuff like artifacts and powers.Now if you cant log in test server or cant find any videos previewing those artifacts,youre in a dissadvantage.But making a wrong desicion about which artifact to get has nothing to do with how long it takes to upgrade them.
  6. Darth Piper Dedicated Player

    Funny how I've recently talked with some people about exactly that gear issue too... because one could rightly argue that in order to beat the elite version of the raid you should be at/near max CR from the DLC's vendor gear, not what the elite gear from the prior DLC offers.

    Of course, that raises a different issue: why the elite gear? Why not put sockets in them where you get elite adapters that boost the gear's level? Those sockets would only exist in the vendor gear for that DLC, not in gear that drops as rewards. Or just make it so that when you hit a certain renown level it automatically makes the associated pieces of gear "elite" and bumps their level? This is just some musings that we've had along the way while having these philosophical discussions. :)

    The common threads among all of this... Harder content should provide greater rewards, and to get to that harder content you should have to build up to it rather than be able to start it on day one when you're at max from the previous DLC.

    And if you want to add in the similar "half off" thing for a feat, why not make it so when you get to full renown you get a feat that you can replay, and then it takes half as much renown to get to full on your alts?
    • Like x 2
  7. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Sure, feel free to PM the loadouts so as to not derail the discussion.
  8. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Exploit? No. Relying on them as a bandaid to claim "balance?" No, thanks.

    The same thing happened during the revamp, and is exactly what landed mental, sorcery and other powers where we are today.

    Relying on a few moves that are not part of the powerset to claim that everything is working fine only serves to compound the underlying problem, not alleviate it.

    If one power has to rely almost entirely on iconics, and another has the option of using or not using them without suffering, then something is amiss.
    • Like x 2
  9. recoil2 Dedicated Player

  10. codyxrhstou Well-Known Player

    I still dont get it, ice tanks were using hardlight shield since forever does it mean ice tanking was always weak?
    As rage Im using HL shield to make tanking safer,does that make rage weak?Rage is suffering by using amazonium deflection.
    What about heat vision and the solar amplifier.Clearly those powers are there because the devs want us to use them.
    Im also allowed to use phase dodge to clip powers as dps in order to gain more damage,it doesnt mean the power is unplayable without it.
    Ive seen fire tanks in cote with a standard build doing just fine.Im just offering a way to make it easier for them.it doesnt mean they cant beat content without it.
  11. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    I think that is an important point for players to be honest about, this isn't just about the challenge it's also about creating a distinction between the "elite" players and the "casual" players seen as being incapable and unworthy.

    It's an equally dangerous elitist attitude because it starts to foster a level of resentment towards casual players where they start to get looked down upon and treated badly, resulting in them disengaging from the game. There really is a difficult balance to be found here which is why in some ways I feel sorry for the task placed upon the developers.
    • Like x 2
  12. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    I think we're probably all in agreement that the elite content shouldn't be beaten day one. and yeah the progression system is obviously broken imo :)
    • Like x 3
  13. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    I interpreted Shark Dental's comment as just being a call for players to be honest about the distinction players want, I didn't think he was saying "don't have greater rewards" just that this is something elite players want. Perhaps I read it wrong lol :D
  14. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    Probably should point out that the most frequently used artifacts are actually not available on test server, they should be though.
    • Like x 1
  15. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    So you want the devs to create "content for everyone," but award superior rewards to only one small group, who may or may not spend far less than the majority of players? Or did I misunderstand your POV?

    I'm just trying to understand where you're going with what you feel is the devs motivation for creating elite content.
  16. Zneeak Loyal Player

    I've seen him bring this up before, and as I've seen it basically stating that the rewards and gear in Elite shouldn't surpass the rewards involved with Normal content, thus indirectly stating that extra effort and grind shouldn't be rewarded for whatever reason.

    I also remember him in a previous conversation in regards to Elite content and Elite-feats where he suggested that the idea of a new speedfeat for example, should only reward featpoints in the normal version but not in the Elite-version of said speedfeat. I wonder why that is? Hmmm... Still don't know why only the normal version could have featpoints and why the Elite-version of the feat shouldn't. Never got a clear answer on that as far as I can remember. I personally think that effort being awarded is pretty important.

    Honesty goes both ways in regards to this topic. Some players aren't completely honest as to WHY they think that Elite-content can't or shouldn't have greater rewards tied to the greater grind, or why Elite content or content in general can't or shouldn't be more difficult. Not pointing this statement toward either you or Shark by the way, just gave an example in regards to the whole honesty-argument being raised.
    • Like x 2
  17. Zneeak Loyal Player

    Elite content is supposed to cater above the average player, the progression involved should reflect that grind, that's how simple it is. Why would somebody who's not at all interested in harder content and grind, who just want to cruise through and chill with Normal content be in such a need of enhanced Elite-gear?

    It's not what I FEEL is the devs motivation for creating Elite content, it's what the developers themselves originally intended Elite content to be.
    • Like x 2
  18. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    I know nothing about those previous conversations so can't really comment.

    I agree that there should be elite rewards of course there should be, I didn't actually raise 'honesty" as an argument I should be clear lol :D what I was expressing is that it's not just about the challenge, I've seen that expressed sometimes as "being the only issue" of course it isn't because as you've rightfully pointed out and I agree with, when the player is 'honest' they'll admit it's actually about both.

    It's about presenting a challenge, maintaining difficulty, while also appropriately rewarding the effort.

    You have to have all of this present for it to be succuessful. SM became about 'just presenting the challenge' and look where that went, into oblivion because it wasn't actually just about the challenge at all, it was about the challenge and the reward, a reward that can't just be cosmetic. Elite players wan't progression too and that's why people stopped playing SM, in my opinion at least, of course in conjunction with the fact they became "over used and repetitive".
    • Like x 1
  19. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    The primary issue I see is that people play this game as "barbie dress up online" lol and when you ask the question "why would someone whose not at all interested in harder content be in such a need of enhanced gear" well the answer is, because it looks pretty lol :D

    And the developers know they'll pay for it haha, resulting in them probably striking the difficulty level a little low to get more money, if that makes sense.

    Of course you can't actually change this desire nor the alternative desire to take their money. I wonder if that's another different approach, if the elite players don't actually care about the appearance of the gear, I'd argue that many do and don't, I certainly don't to that extent then perhaps we could just be giving the enhanced gear away in another means as a style and the elite gear is simply a statistical increase, thus one element of the reward might be removed "the unique style", but the primary reward of a statistical upgrade remains. It'd probably push the "cosplayers" issue away to one side. I don't know it's just a thought.
    • Like x 1
  20. spack2k Devoted Player

    not sure if +10% on CC resistance or a shorter cooldown on breakout ability would fix fire tho since fire lacks defence.
    • Like x 2

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