What about BUFF Elite content?

After the event ended you'll have a new event to play, by the time the event is over you'll be done with the dlc anyway.

You realize people have been 4 manning 8 man content since dox and nexus right, so i feel it should be pointed out that it's a bit disingenous to imply this is something new or the norm of player behavior. I think that's important to remember.

No no, this is nothing new at all and i remember the dox times as you mentioned. I'm talking about the concept of Elite-content, i.e., to be really harder because if it's not so let's assume (the proof is the video) that the Controller role is now useless and that may be ended by DCUO definitely in a near future.

Whatever the difficulty of elite content, that needs to be sorted out BEFORE it hits live servers imo. I'm glad that Elite raids weren't tinkered with to death like HIVE E was last round.

I think people by nature are always going to push the limits by trying to 4 man or solo things.

But 100% agreed this video shows the absolute decimation of the controller role.

Actually come to think of it, that's actually the root problem because if they'd needed a controller they'd never have finished because I'd assert the tank wouldnt have been able to take all the damage and the healer would have run out of power.

The real problem here and this isn't to say again don't look at content difficulty, but the real problem is passive power regeneration being too strong and the controller role being broken.

Oh no definitely me too. I just mean the current reality is what we have now.

They release the dlc, people replay it, rinse and repeat.

Its kind of insulting because I feel like they think all we need is materials, styles and DLC. No quality of life stuff, just buy our stuff

I actually feel that shield values are an issue though.

When they are required to complete content, they are an issue.

In the sense of, can any amount of healing currently compete with the power of shields?

If one healing powerset didn't have any shields, would they be at a disadvantage, or be superior to ones with shields?

If a tank powerset doesn't have access to shields, or fewer shields, than another, is it at a disadvantage in current content?

Since the revamp (possibly before) shields have been the answer to everything. That seems, at least from my point of view, flawed.

A shield's ability to absorb damage should never exceed the healing ability of other powersets to mitigate it. In fact, it should be far less, due to the instant burst damage absorption compared to HoT provided.

In what world should burst powers hit for a higher total amount than DoTs, for example?

Of course, I agree with you on one thing, that the devs seem to put little though into the potential effects of artifacts. I would extend it to the post-revamp content design as well. We're back into the world of one-shots (which were supposedly going to be done away with) which automatically gives shields the upper hand from the get-go.

You could be right. 5,000 sc shields were not an issue, I don't think before artifacts. They became an issue at the point where it became feasible to hit them quickly enough in succession that mechanics could be ignored. However, I think that point was way back at the level 80 milestone of the Scrap, and mosts groups simply had not thought of this sort of 2 heals 1 troll group supercharge rotation meta yet. With that in mind, I'm not sure how much artifact testing could have made a difference if the tipping point was at the earliest milestone.

Regardless, I accepted what the meta was at with the 160 soul cloak, as groups still did have to put at least some sort of effort in conserving and time their supercharges (though not too much). With the Eye of the Gemini as it is, that won't be the case anymore. It shouldn't give supercharge back. There's already too much supercharge back in the game.

Day 1 groups beating Elite was already frequent enough, now it is going to be even worse. The small mistakes any one person can make that can lead to wipes or potential wipes when not following mechanics get limited so much with group supercharges the more there are of them. The efforts devs make to put Elite in the appropriate place difficulty wise are going to be hampered by the changing meta that they themselves are catalyzing.

I don't think supercharge shields should mitigate as much as they do, though I'll admit I'm not the most well versed as far as how healing supercharge shield mitigation works. However, from what I see, these shields are currently able to mitigate potential one shots in various circumstances. You obviously can't heal one shots. Nature is at maybe the biggest disadvantage currently as a heal powerset, however it can arguably put the most healing out. This is as far as Hive E and Machine E were concerned, as those raids were more difficult than the current two. Group supers mattered a lot more, and with a mechanic that nerfs your healing in Terra last boss for example, guess what reigns supreme: group shield supercharges. Though of course that mechanic was in place so people would be forced to do the rocks and in a timely manner. However, with one healing powerset you could survive longer during that nerfed healing phase if you had a group super versus if you had a Nature healer.

With that said, they are not required to complete content, even for day 1 Elite raid groups. Though they do make it a lot more feasible for many different groups.

content is literally only as difficult as you make it, the event version i'm forced to run (i'm broke after 11 months of unemployment so no extra spending) is typically difficult for 80% of the players running it, and it's cause many of them are pre-level 30's who haven't yet even hit 100 hits on the hit counter much less had their full loadouts for a while and experimented with them for the best results. one simple solution to elite content not being "challenging" is something like WoW's time walking difficulty setting and similar gimmicks from other mmo's where there's a forced stat clamp. the problem isn't the content it's us. from what i've heard from players who run elite rather regularly, every elite version has it's own mechanics which have to be followed or the group fails, exasperated by the fact that you only get one revive, it's simply that after a while and a few handfuls of runs the routine is learned and after a few more, gear makes you over prepared for the elite version anyways. now the devs can't really do anything about the predictability but they can raise the stakes a bit by making it more of a fair fight. granted i got through silent school without a single player dying earlier, so there's something.

I agree by and large however i think the issue is the speed at which the shields are being generated not the amount of damage they're mitigating, they used to be strategically used at certain points to mitigate special attacks and to help with pick ups.

Shields were used to supplement healing now it's in danger of reversing where healing is supplementing the use of shields.

Shields should be encouraged to be used strategically not just spammed every 20 seconds because they're available and you want to build more.

The soul scrap began this issue and the gemini is exacerbating it.

Also i can't help but feel the developers desire to issue shields overpowered leads to sloppy one shot mechanics coming into play again.

They're also just adding heaps of adds that encourage the use of shielding, adding copious adds doesn't actually feel like a proper raid mechanic, it just feels like artificial difficulty.

If the raids were hard in terms if mechanics you wouldn't need copious adds nor would you need a death counter, nexus and dox were proof of this.

Probably my post above acknowledges a lot if your post too. I agree though the gemini needs the sc generation removed to preserve balance and to stop sc generation getting out of control.

The fact you see people going around using 25%ers while running gemini and soul scrap together to maintain an almost infinte circle probably wasnt envisioned by the developers.

The speed at which people are generating shields as a result as well also naturally an issue.

Who & how many is we?
That's the real question. If we are talking about 1% of the player base. It's never going to happen.

Some infomation:

Everyone except the Dps on single target was playing with "Superpowered spec".

If the Support roles wouldnt have had to make a Special spec for this i'd say a Troll is obsolete.

For everyone saying Elite doesnt need a buff because others have "4 manned" Elite before, should consider their Cr or Overall stats.

I wouldnt adress this if everyone was max. Cr/stats/mods but this just wasn't the case.

My Tank just had Cr256 wich is still 6Cr's below the max.

Btw it would have also been possible with everyone being Cr250 except the Main Tank (for adds).

If power regen wasnt as strong as it was and a troll was required I'd assert the run wouldnt have been that easy because once the solo tank and healer runs out of power it's RIP.

I don't buy the problem being elite content itself being just easy but that whole run was made possible through the fact you were able to forgo the troll and take the second tank.

Perhaps before we even talk about buffing content we talk about the fact you were able to run the content while entirely omitting one of the games support roles.

You shouldn't be able to make a special spec to bypass any of the roles, why is it acceptable to negate trolls but not healers or tanks?

You actually think that's not broken?

My thoughts About Elite Content:

Its a bit too easy Overall.
King Sharks mechanic is, to dodge a red skull every 20sec. and maybe move away from the "tornados".
The adds are just interesting for the Tank.

2nd "Boss" … we'll skip that ...

Last boss is actually quite good for an Elite raid, it just lacks some Group mechanics.
The way it is Right now: its a lot of fun/Challenge for Tanks but if the Tanks are playing their Role perfectly, the heal doesnt have to do anything all of a sudden.

Its similar for "The Throne Elite".

The 1st Boss (Seabeast) is a joke, mechanic wise. All you have to do is: dont go melee (kinda obvious in Elite content) and break out when you get sucked in.
They tried to make it harder by adding Corum Rath spamming random AoE's wich is a good mechanic imo, since it isnt too obvious but if you get moe experienced, you know where you can stay and where not to.

The last boss is also quite easy. The only thing that makes it feel "too easy" is the too streamline mechanic. To be a proper Elite raid they should've made the Artifact phases in a random order and having more Impact on all Players (like the small Brine swarmers attacking 1 random player) but 5/7 Artifacts doesnt affect the Group at all.
The only ones affecting all Players are: Brine swarmers, Morgwar and Seabeast. (Maybe the Red skull of Corum rath if the Tank doesnt pay Attention aswell)
Everything else is for the Tank/s - again

Also, being able to Block the Sea beast charge with just 1 Coral on Rank 23 is making the Red line completely unnecessary...
those red lines make the Content a lot harder (like in Ultimate Soldier Elite) and it is also possible without being able to just block through them.

To be fair it was Always possible to Bypass the troll by playing as a Team with supply Drops/sodas.

You can also Bypass the Dps role by playing battle troll or battle heal or battle tank...

Since the stats revamp you can make very different builds, wether they're useful or useless.

Playing battle role isn't bypassing the role its compromising the effectiveness of dps/support to find a balance.

I'd accept that argument if you took a battle troll, but you didn't, you took a second tank showing that either the passive power regen or other means of obtaining power back are too strong.

It is not acceptable in my view that you can eliminate a support role and succeed and that doesnt mean the content is just too easy when one of the factors assisting with making it easier it's a core element of the game as a whole being fundamentally broken.

Would you be saying that if you could 4man the most recent elite content without a healer or tank? I doubt it, i expect you'd be calling it out for what it is, why don't we need a healer or tank?

So ask the same question, why don't you need a controller?

I think trolling is in its current situation because of feedback that nobody likes spamming power dump (which isn’t UNtrue). But I’m starting to think they approached the issue from the wrong angle. Instead of making people virtually self-sufficient they should have made POT much more potent than self power recovery and/or possibly given us our own version of the Arion artifact that summons a power dumping pet etc.

I think mechanics is kinda the key with elite content, and what type of mechanics we get in a raid - and more so an elite raid.

Yes there are some 'tricky' mechanics in both elite raids in Atlantis, but they are of the type that you can work around with less than a full group if the group members are skilled and aware enough to spend the time doing the raid. If anything especially with the Throne (Elite) it is easier to run with less players, and certainly easier to get the elite feats - but it is more risky and time consuming so the players in the group need to be fully aware of the raid and its mechanics for success - and ideally 3+ players need to survive the entire Corum Rath fight for that last artifact near the end of the fight.

In HIVE Elite however, different story. You had to do the rocks in last boss to stop the gas phase, get rid of Terra's shield, and stop the heal debuff. You needed close to or a full group for success. Even with the Deathstroke fight, you'd need close to or a full group for both phases, and either enough damage to burn through the Ikon Suit, or for players to block/use group shields to survive the Ikon Suit attack. It required teamwork from a near to full group.

The realisation I've come to is even if the devs buffed the two elite raids from Atlantis, would it actually make the mechanics require everyone to work together? Or would it still be bypassable by less than a full elite raid group?

It more comes down to what type of mechanics we get in future raids - and especially elite raids.