What about BUFF Elite content?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (Gameplay Discussion)' started by Xibo, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Xibo Loyal Player

    Not my video but, CoTe with 4 players? Seems that some elite mechanics needs to be harder...

    Anyways, congratulations for them.
    • Like x 1
  2. Zneeak Loyal Player

    The problem with DCUO Elite-instances is that they are basically the same as the regular versions with some stuff hitting harder and the bulk of the difficulty coming down to limited rallies.

    Most of the mechanics are almost always the same, the Elite-versions need added mechanics and elements that you are not seeing in the regular raids. Something that requires a brand new strategy as opposed to the regular version. They just need to spend more time when developing these instances to truly separate the Elite-version from the Regular version.

    If the limited rallies-method needs to be removed to fully achieve this goal, then that's definately something that they should consider doing.
    • Like x 6
  3. 9001BPM Devoted Player

    It would make a better experience for everyone because those of us doing normal would also not have 100 things to juggle simultaneously. I’ve really struggled these past two dlcs due to this half-hearted approach.

    Right now the normal raids feel very long and unforgiving for the average lfg run, and the elite raids are being four manned by the top players. This is entirely down to the two versions being nearly identical as you said.

    I know I keep bringing it up but it’s the perfect example of how things should be: Zeus in AF3. Also the first two battles of God Of Monsters and the last two of Gotham City Zoo, to a lesser extent.
    • Like x 3
  4. Perdition Haze Well-Known Player

    I really don't know what u get with pugggroups, but my runs with pugs are mostly smooth (apart from when i pug elite, thats mosly a fail) but the normal raids are fine the way they are. You are in a big league ''alot of quantity in players'', so i don't know why u keep pugging all the time if it really gives u that much stress.
    • Like x 1
  5. 9001BPM Devoted Player

    Don’t get me wrong, I still finish them, I just miss raids like JFA, The Escape and the two raids already mentioned. I’m just saying making more effort to differentiate the two versions could potentially make for a more fulfilling experience for everyone.
  6. Perdition Haze Well-Known Player

    This wouldn't be the case if every role has it's unique job. A troll is completely useless. I troll myself, and we came to the point yet again that u don't even stress yourself with power. Tanking is not tanking anymore. If u are a champion in hitting and running then you are king for the past 2 dlcs. Run away, block, get lunged, repeat. The second ''boss'' is not even a boss. Just a room with adds that u don't have to kill, just keep them CC'd and job done. You cannot make hard content with just buffing adds, and adding more adds in a fight. The only reason i run elite is to get the feat point that's attached to it. From my end they can scratch elite and add somehing else every 3 or 4 months for the hardcore players. But stuff like this cannot be tested sinds test servers is kinda dead, and most devs can't even handle their camera-postion properly, let alone rune elite to test it.

    • Like x 4
  7. EconoKnight Loyal Player

    From the business side (and that’s what Daybreak should care about), it comes down to two questions.

    Will buffing elite increase player activity?

    Will buffing elite decrease player activity?

    Some want raids that take 3 hours to complete; and that on its face causes a decrease in player activity compared to now. No other instance can be run (or replayed) by that group until they complete their raid at the 3 hour mark.

    But it’s their call. I’m growing into the camp of wanting the devs to do it. Dial everything to 11 and see where it goes. The fire from the crash and burn of their revenue model should be lovely.
    • Like x 2
  8. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    The problem in these cases goes far beyond "buffing" elite. There is an innate gameplay problem showing up.

    If a troll isn't required to complete any elite instance (I'm even talking about elite alerts) then there's a problem with fundamental gameplay.

    If shields always 100% outclass healing powersets, then there's an innate problem with how shields are working.

    If shield supercharges allow groups to essentially bypass mechanics, and to be protected by shields during 100% of the instance, then there's a fundamental flaw with the innate damage absorption of these shield supercharges, and the frequency that they're available for use.

    You can't say "buff this" while at the same time ignoring power design flaws that allows the group to bypass the mechanics/damage in the first place.
    • Like x 6
  9. LeagueOfV Dedicated Player

    The sad part is there are still lots of 8 player groups that can't beat last boss. Most of my runs one of the dps we pick up in LFG will vote to disband after the 2nd renown drop and we have to shout in group chat that we are doing last boss. It's honestly just having a tank that can kite the adds and 2 sub bosses while you burn war and Murk. I have 1 tank on my friends list that can solo up to last boss then tank the adds at the last boss. But if he is not in the group most of the tanks that join in LFG can't solo or do last boss. I'm sure all the good tanks are running with their leagues, but that still means LFG groups struggle at last boss.
    This is also a good demonstration of how DPS need to use the same weapon attack for max single target damage. When the electric dps was at 1st boss his power bar was empty with his might based damage for the adds. Then he obviously didn't need a troll when switching to weapon dps.
  10. Zneeak Loyal Player

    The vast majority of normal content have been the complete opposite of "Unforgiving" for a good, long while. Just because the Elite-raids need adjustments to reflect its intended purpose of difficulty, doesn't automatically mean that normal content should become any easier than it in fact already is.

    There's a reason we have Event, Normal and Elite content now. The only category that doesn't really live up to its intended purpose at the moment is Elite Content, so let's please stick to that.
  11. LeagueOfV Dedicated Player

    I think it's important to use the random queue on the normal raids to get a better feel for the difficulty. I haven't tried the random queue yet on the current raids, but for the Titans DLC my random queue groups would wipe at Hive normal last boss during plug the vents unless we had 2 healers. Machine random queue groups would also wipe when electric AoE popped under tank and he/she refused to move out. We would still beat the raid after adjusting strategy, but they usually took almost 1 hour. And LFG Machine groups took about 15 minutes to complete raid.
    I have run the event versions of the Atlantis raids and they seem fine since you can't really die easily. They just take forever because most of the dps are 241, so who knows if they even have all their powers yet or know how to use them. And by forever I mean 30 minutes for Throne, maybe it was 35 for CoT. Not too bad I guess. We didn't have a tank in CoT so I switched to healer and tanked as Celestial using Consume Soul to pull enemies and my shield :D.
  12. Zneeak Loyal Player

    A lot of groups can't and even more groups don't even want to attempt it, because they are ready to spend money on cruising through the easy fights knowing they can get 2/3 of the renown and spam their way to full Elite-gear.

    The rid-lighted part is where my point in mechanics suited for Elite comes in. While tank & spank + filling the instance with a lot of trash adds is a popular concept in normal content, it shouldn't leave as big of a presence as it does in Elite-instances. Elite content should have mechanics, objects and elements that pushes the utilization of all roles and group members in different scenarios in a way that the normal version doesn't. What is the point of different categories of content if some of the categories rarely live up to its intended purpose?

    At the end of the day, there will always be players willing to try and hope to beat Elite-raids but aren't good enough to do so. Practicing to reach the level required to beat is what players should be aspiring to do in that case. Elite-raids shouldn't be lowered to a level below Elite just so that the average pug-group can continue to pug their way through a certain piece of content not specifically catered to them.

    IMO It really diminishes the point of having different categories of content catering to different crowds of players if each category is not actually catering to said crowd.
    • Like x 3
  13. LeagueOfV Dedicated Player

    I agree with you on the last boss kiting adds mechanic. All of the tanks that have been running with me do complain it's a frustrating and very unfun mechanic. We will get Murk down to 20% and then the tank with adds will get stuck in a bad spot and wipe the group. It definitely just makes the fight annoying for the tank that has to take the adds. There was so much going on with the bosses and adds in DWFE it wasn't a boring fight ever.
  14. Zneeak Loyal Player

    I've said this before but I really can't stress this enough, finding bad players/groups and having lack of communication or teamwork does NOT equal difficulty. That simply equals bad play/lack of communication or teamwork.

    While you can keep event and normal content easy enough to fit a more casual playstyle to where the average player can beat it, that's not the standard that should be held in Elite-content because it's content catering to completely different crowds.
  15. 9001BPM Devoted Player

    Say I decided to just do event content. What do I do after the event has ended?
  16. Zneeak Loyal Player

    Tanks having to kite is a mechanic that can be used, but there needs to other elements that keep the other roles and group members on their feet aswell rather than just piling it all onto the tanks to handle.

    DWFE was indeed a good Elite-raid, not without flaws but liek you said there wasn't really a boring fight lol.
    • Like x 1
  17. Zneeak Loyal Player

    I'm not discussing normal or event-level adjustments, I'm discussing Elite-level adjustments so again let's stay on topic. Thank you.
    • Like x 1
  18. Heywiar Well-Known Player

    3 leaguemates and I did the entirety of PANE when it came out. I see nothing has changed in terms of the difficulty of elite content.
    They were going somewhere with H.I.V.E Elite, though! Maybe its just the Aquaman content that is easy because I remember the other DLC's being more difficult. :p
  19. 9001BPM Devoted Player

    I’m trying to illustrate that the current setup isn’t ideal for either side of the coin.
  20. Kanmaru Committed Player

    What’s absolutely baffling to me is that you are asking to buff content but have a video of someone else completing it and not yourself. How do you know personally that you can even beat it the same way they did? You should only be asking for a buff if your personal experience was a success and at the same time was justified. Come back when you have a video of you completing it, then we can talk.
    • Like x 5

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