Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Winter Sabel, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    I have some question for the DEVS regarding weapons, weapons combos & the number of clicks needed for each combo.

    This is an general question about all the weapon combos but I am using shield as an example.
    If you look here at Devastating Kicks. The Two Footed Slam & the Handspring Kick.
    Two footed Slam & Handspring Kick are 6 TAP HOLD & 7 TAP HOLD respectively.

    You guys can shorten these combos by adding another input.
    Why not make the combos use TAP HOLD + ↑ or TAP HOLD + ↓ ???

    [IMG]This one is 5 TAP HOLD
    Why not TAP HOLD+ → ???

    This is one thing that is really holding back weapons IMO.

    Every weapon has some really awesome animations that never get used because they have so many clicks associated with each move. Adding more inputs like is done done with Rifle would make weapons and their combos a lot faster and actually useful within the game.

    Just imagine being able to get off a two footed slam when ever you want. I can and this is one of the things DCUO desperately needs.
  2. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player


    Why so many clicks when you can shorten them with another input?

    [IMG] TAP HOLD+ ↓ ( DOWN )

    [IMG] TAP HOLD + → ( FORWARD )

    [IMG] TAP HOLD + ( BACK )

    [IMG] TAP HOLD + ( UP )

    These forums are a pain to add symbols to. :mad::mad:
  3. Streven Dedicated Player

    Or simply make longer moves really pay off. Longer combos should do higher dps than shorter combos due to the risk of being interrupted.
    • Like x 1
  4. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    Longer combos add to mind games for pvp so I'm against removing them. If they did hella damage in pve as if they were WM combos, I'd be fine with hella taps. I'd just backpedal like what ppl do for flipslash.
    • Like x 4
  5. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    Longer moves do nothing but make things useless and a waste of programming space.
  6. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    Instead of saying something that holds no value by itself, you might want to type support for your argument. I know plenty of people and can link plenty of videos of people using 5/6-8/9 tap combos in pvp. Dual wield and shield are good for baiting blocks because after 4 taps at any point I can chunk you if I hold melee. It's not like 1h where I only have to block a 4 tap or maybe a 3 if you want to be picky. Each of those taps after 4/5 is a nuke threat and people will either turtle, run away out of range, or get hit. It has pvp value. If you want it to have pve value, argue for it. But to say is a waste of programming space is a lie. And even though 1shot pvp era wasn't the best, there are plenty of entertaining and funny videos of people getting 1shotted by DW or Shield to the point people were making montages and getting thousands of views on it.
    • Like x 5
  7. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    Five taps is stretching it in PVP and you know it if you PVP.
    Eight, nine or ten taps, you are completely full of it.

    What I said speaks the truth and I am not going to sit here and argue with you about something that I asked the devs anyway.

    Have a good day
  8. Absolix Loyal Player

    1. They would still take just as much programming space if the inputs are changed.

    2. Changing the input would only make serve to make more combos useless. When combos have the same animation time leading up to them, aka the same number of taps, the one that produces the best Dps will always get moved over the other options. For example in what you proposed for Shield, you would have 3 variations of the tap hold combo, but whichever two produce the lowest Dps will be useless as they will offer nothing the combo with the better Dps doesn't do better. Taking a look at an example of this on Live, Meteor Blast vs Solar Flame. Both are lead up to with a hold range with merely the second input changing. However Meteor Blast doesn't get used as it has the same animation times as Solar Flame, but worse Dps. Essentially, we already have an example of what you are proposing, and it made a combo nearly unused.

    Different amounts of taps allow for different animation times which can allow for Dps differences to vary, but still be useful.
    • Like x 3
  9. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    Apparently you never pvp'd during WM or 1shot/AM era and you're talking out of your *bad word* right now. Any pvp veteran would remember days where clips like this used to happen and people considered it cheese. DW didn't even reach the combo that could chunk 75%+ of people's health until it was at 6 taps. 5 tap is still a sideways chop and not the overhead downward smash. Same thing goes for Shield. I want to say shield was 7 or 8 taps before the 1shot specific combo. There were people including myself that used to backpedal and attack the air behind up/wind up the combo before the fight just to get a 15-20k+ crit if you didn't block. In shield's case, even if it didn't crit it'd still be half your health and you barely landed 1-2 weapon taps on me if you just reached me at the start of the fight. Either you ate 10-20k+ from not blocking or you got bb'd and still took 1/4th of your health from a basic combo after the counter. Ever since people found out that avoiding the weapon mastery point for a weapon caused your weapon to do massive damage, it was cheese fest for any competitive area and CTR (chinatown rally) in open world. Even in 4s/5s, if someone on the team doesn't block against the shield crit aoe attack, that was a 1shot and if that person blocked and got bb'd and ate 1-2 combos from the other dps, he'd be full life'd in 3 seconds and there was no way to heal it. This was the same era Ice's Artic Gust used to be broken and used to half life people as a BB. If you blocked against Ice, you got gust'd for half your health, if you didn't block and they crit you'd lose 75%+ of your health. Fights were literally 1-2 counters.

    You can watch this and or skip to 5:50, flipped and chunked 60% from not blocking.

    • Like x 2
  10. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    Your talking about game exploits that need to be addressed within the game and you're sure assuming a lot about experience with pvp.

    What the Mr. Milk ( the name that shall not be mentioned ) started within PVP by allowing exploits (clipping) and what he did after SOE 2014 was pure trash. His DA theory that PVP fights took too long and we need more 1 shots & cheese was nothing more than game genie garbage.
  11. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    What I am proposing is making these combos useful and actually used within the game. Giving the longer unused combos more damage will do nothing if players do not use them. All it is doing is wasting time.
  12. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    I can't comment on the PVP aspect of this, but for PVE when the weapons only playstyle comes into play - no pun intended - I will actually enjoy the skill of using longer combos and their respective higher damage. Short combos will all have reduced damage, except weapon mastery combos, compared to the longer chains, at least that's the idea.

    And on a side note, as someone who mains bow, i can tell you that there's something else I hate about HOLD + up arrow or down arrow combos. They constantly go off when you don't want them to, just because you're trying to reposition yourself. That said, I agree that having to count dual wield's combos can seem pretty excessive, but after a while muscle memory seems to kick in for me. I understand if that's not the case for others. But it's kind of what makes dual wield unique, since the rest of the powers are limited to 5 presses pretty much.
  13. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    I play bow and rifle have been for a long time. All that needs to be done with the UP / DOWN is have the input moved.

    It sounds like to me people never played any of the Tekken, mortal combat, street fighter or virtual fighter games. This would make PVP more challenging and balance the field in between everyone.

    People keep talking about speed of the game and yet when its mentioned they think its a bad idea.
    Do we want speed or not?

    Are we afraid of more balance and speed or are we afraid of being beaten?
  14. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    I will also add that whether we like it or not.............
    Clipping / Jump canceling / bot exploits are going to have to be addressed in order to balance everything out. There is no way around it.

    Making any combo longer than 5 or 6 clicks have another input that gets them down to 2, 3 or 4 clicks will help keep the speed of the game while addressing the animation clipping exploits.
  15. Winter Sabel Dedicated Player

    Before anyone tries to come in and say that
    1. clipping
    2. jump cancelling
    3. bot clipping
    are not exploits.

    Here is the definition of a game exploit.

    An exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates (frame rates), hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the games designers.
    This is also includes macros & speed macros in DCUO.

    Macros : a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions to perform a particular task.
  16. Brother Allen Loyal Player

    The weapon combos are fine as is.
  17. Telos Usr Dedicated Player

    Seems like theres 2 obvious problems with this tbh:

    1) You're talking about cutting 8-10 click combos down to 3-4 clicks. We're then left to assume you mean you want to get to the big hit finish faster. This would mean cutting out animations and so combos would look terrible. The animations were designed with the previous animations in mind, and its why when WM was introduced only certain weapons could be added together.

    2) You somehow forgot PS Players. Theres no chance of this option working on a controller. None. Trust me, Its full. The majority of DCUO players now cant use your system.

    Currently during the stats matter revamp, the devs are trying to make it so that not only do longer combos hit harder, but wep-only might be a viable option. I cant see a need for this yet nor can I see a way around the PS side problem. Leave it as it is for now.
    • Like x 1
  18. Absolix Loyal Player

    The key phrase of your definition that you seem to be ignoring is "intended by the game designers". Clipping weapon combos is intended and not an exploit. Jump canceling is intended and not an exploit, the developers even went about standardizing jump canceling in GU36.
    • Like x 1
  19. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club


    Long weapon combos adds the spice of variety, not trying to be rude, but why would you even consider this to be a good idea?
    • Like x 1
  20. AbBaNdOn_IGN Committed Player

    As far as PvE, I wish they would take the time to gut and redo weapon combo inputs. Long combo inputs are dumb. If we have less CC as DPS after revamp there will be enemies beating on us non stop. Interruptions are goings to go through the roof. Flip slash/solar flare need killed off.

    They need to standardize every weapon for single target, group of target, melee range, ranged. Then go about making common inputs, timing, damage. A weapon combo should be like a power combo(Not Light). Short inputs to do a move, linking moves together to do increased damage. Not tap x50 = awesome.

    I think weapons will get the short end of the stick tho because working with the animations or making new ones is prob a nightmare.
    • Like x 1