Weapon Mastery Nerf...why?

That is true but it still makes all powers useable fpor dps

Clipping became widely used with melee rotations around hl release/ gadgets revamp(The gadgets rotation predates its revamp and was born on uspc op scum beeing one of its first users), but sure.. gu 32.. ;x

They were usable before, the overpowered weapon damage makes powers anything but relevant or usable.

Disagree I was rage before WM came and none of the weaker power could even come close to me.

Really? It seems like you, Kaiser, and anyone else that is claiming WM is hurting our game is wrong, yet again. I say this because according to Tunso...

So the game IS in fact much more balanced now than it was prior to the introduction of WM. Balance doesn't happen over night, there's the proof that we are now headed in the right direction. So WM is in fact a great addition, and here to stay. Period.

I personally love WM, if anything, I just wish they would make the crit caps in Arenas the same for the Open World (at least in the PvP Phase), and only allow the vanilla crit caps in PvE instances. This way Arena and Open World PvP damage is consistent across the board.

It also wouldn't hurt to put a stipulation on PvE gear like "when you attack a player in this gear, your gear stats will automatically be converted to the stats for the cash gear set of PvP gear", to deter players from abusing PvE gear for PvP purposes in the open world. Stipulations like that existed on PvP weapons back when they could be used in PvE.

+1 Doc, I am with you 100%.

@Devs

You did an amazing job with WM. Keep up the great work.

Yeah the devs catered to much to these bad and lazy players.

If they get beat by a power or can't beat an instance, they come here and complain. Because it's easier to complain then practicing and learning things on your own. When i get beat by someone, i take it as a challenge and try to get better instead of coming here and try to get everything nerfed to the ground. Can't stand these people.

The problem with there data is everybody is using wm and its crazy op of course there no clear winners. 60 to 80 precent of your damage now comes from wm. Thats not balance that hiding balance with buckets of easy to get damage. How is this any different than dw/1h when they were op and you fought tooth in nail for the nerf bat for them. True balance should come from actually being balance not a huge band aid hiding what really going on with the powers. Even in your post your asking for it to be nerfed yet there nothing wrong with it. When you can crit with a wm for more damage than a 50% super, a 35% or a cast power for zero power theres something really really wrong.

Their actions seems to be hypicritical (Dw, 1H anybody), sadly WM is why players get kicked from instances even more, creating clones, same load outs, I guess most players on the forums are comfortable with feeling like synthetic mods.

Edit: I would rather do less damage and be unique about it then follow some trend that's op.

Look...there is a simple fix to all of this. Restore power clipping and restore HL to what it was. THEN install a small teeny tiny patch into the game that disables clipping for that toon, when the skill point is used to activate weapon mastery on any weapon. It signifies a conscious choice to go the way of the weapon, as opposed to the way of the power. Nothing needs to be buffed or debuffed; just either enabled or disabled. There is a reason WM does so much damage out, and the clue to that is in the name of it. They don't call it weapon MASTERY because it LOOKS nifty... It is so named because you dumped hard earned Skill Points into MASTERING a weapon type. As a weapon MASTER, damage with that weapon should be commensurate of that title.
All of the whining seems centered around people who once dominated the damage out in raids and alerts, and now their thrones are being threatened by those who prefer weaponry, and who dumped skill points into making sure they can do the job. Now, people can choose the power type they WANT, not be forced into one they had no interest in, just for the ability to compete.
If the devs can arrange a way to bring the hurt of clipping back, yet disable clipping or even atrophy the powers for a toon once weapon mastery is chosen, a better balance will be achieved.
And for those griping about "All I see anymore are people spamming weapon combos and a power over and over again..."
Let me ask you this: What, exactly, were you doing with your clipping and rotations, before WM?
It looked a lot like spamming the same thing over and over again to me...

No, it's just gonna bring back FOTM-powers like rage & celest to the top without any other powersets standing a chance to compete.

WM actually exposes lazy players who don't give a thing about earning SP. Ok, granted...celest is claimed to have been destroyed by WM, but I'm sure the devs will fix this. Although I don't really understand how a precision based powerset (the users should have loads of precision) can be destroyed by WM, because the WM combo itself is precision based. What they might lack in might should be more than made up by their precision. If it isn't then they obviously never cared about earning SP.

It's a good thing that no longer a cr85 DPS with 70 SP can outdamage a cr90 <<any other power than celest>>-user with 100++ SP, just because one of them picked one powerset and the other another one.

Yeah you are pretty much forced to use WM, otherwise you gonna risk to get kicked when you play a different way that you actually have fun with.

I miss the fast paced playstyle we had before, clipping was so much more enjoyable. What i don't get is why the devs told us that WM would just be an alternative way of clipping. Ugh all they did was just ruining clipping completely. Now we got stuck with this WM mess.

You seem confused on how combos classes work. Lets take celestial for exp. Rcw combo takes round 2secs and has a really low might tick followed by a higher prec tick thats still thousands of less damage than a decent wmc. Snice you cant do both wm and your combo at the same time you gotta choose which to use and for celestial wm wins hands down to the point its better running buffs and just doing wm with out any damage powers. The same can be said for every prec combo for all the powers but maybe outrage and it still only one of all the other powers they have. Combo powers are dpsing the same as all the other powers throwing away the awesome mechanics for wm becuase its far better damage.

As for it exposes lazy players i doubt it. It not hard to get sp any more my friend kitty started playing 3 months ago and she has 140sp already. If anything it incongruous poeple not to learn there powers becuase 80% of damage comes from your weapon any way so why brother using any but a pi, burst, dot and buff, everthing else you never use or would loss damage using.

We had more balance before WM then after. It's just becoming a mess with each update they make..

All they had to do before WM was just tweaking a few powersets.

Btw i don't get why people are bringing up this 'people have to finally earn their sp'.
No they don't, the miminum of sp you need to use WM is 43. So yeah a player with just 43 sp can beat someone with 120 sp.

It says why in each of them, and it's more than just SP. There're plenty of reasons, and I could sit here and type a long TLDR, but I'm sure you can read or have read those many threads yourself to know why, in addition to your opinion.

It's already started, my friend.

The players of those powersets can currently top the scoreboard with WM and full precision mods (rage and cele especially). Numbers aren't always the only problem. As far as potentially topping the scoreboard, before GU36 sorc could already beat a celestial, and so could quantum granted power is available for it. I don't know what is it with people and celestial...I've played with plenty celestial players and rolled a celestial myself to see what the fuss was about, other than doing good damage in healer stance and fulfilling that role, it is not as OP as most people made it to be. I'll agree that it was not at all power hungry, that's the only "OP" I saw in it tbh. But it didn't always top the chart. The only one that was truly OP and now is a little better is Rage. HL was only "OP" due to jump canceling, anyone who didn't clip with HL sucked (and yes, there were those people). If anything, GU36+ simply showed how terrible HL powers were, even if no WM was introduced (just the removal of jump cancel clip).

And I was earth, gadgets mental and ice before and could and DID compete(was the first earth dps on eupc villain side to actually beat the t5 raids when they came out) sooo.. Like I said earlier it's much easier to whine.

Dunno why I bother but kay..
HOW is the precision damage of wm combos any different then the op damage of 1h and dw you fought to get nerfed again? There's no clear winners because WM does 80% of our damage and it's the same for everyone, the powersets themselves are not doing the damage- WM is. Claiming the powers itself were balanced by this is asine- the powers are simply irrelevant, that's not the same thing.

I got 184 sps, there's nothing more lazy then doing hold tap hold and watching everything in sight just die. As for celestial, the uniquness and viability of the combo part of the power was destroyed, yes those guys have a lot of precision, wanna know how they HAVE to dps now?
Buffs->hold tap hold.
Awesome really, and not lazy at all

WM is acting as a mask for supposed power balance because powers usage is a forced secondary to weapon attacks if you want to achieve the highest of outputs - players the world over are stacking precision where ever possible, which says so much.
I understand why, and I don't want to see WM "nerfed", I want to see the alternative that makes power usage and Might a legitimate source as was stated.

This discussion is plastered all over the forums, and has been ongoing for so long - the fact is that we are yet to see the exposure of simple numbers and metrics that will put the topic to rest in either direction;

1. How are players modding? I bet all sockets are Precision & X.
2. What WM combos reign supreme? I bet One Handed (DW Flurry, Solar Flare) and Hand Blasters (Explosive Shot, formerly Arrow Fling).
3. What stat boosting soder colas are being preferred? I bet Precision.

These are only basic questions that look at part of the issue, just listed for example purposes.

1) They didn't really balance things out, they merely rearranged the order. The powersets are now effective based on how well they work with WM. So instead of Nature and Celestial being near the top, they are at the bottom with Celestial being the worst by a good margin.

2) Some people hate that what made their powerset unique is no longer worth using. Celestial combos are pathetic in terms of damage output compared to WM combos. The same goes for HL.

3) Some people hate that their powerset was made to not work well with WM. This is basically what has happened to Nature and perhaps Electric.

4) Actually a lot of people with 180+ SP don't like WM either so it's not really just that.

To me WM is just a repackaged and over simplified 1-hand and DW. What did those weapons do? Allowed powersets to compete at a legitimate level because you actually had to know what you were doing with a proper rotation. WM on the other hand is simple, boring, takes no effort whatsoever(well for me anyway) and appears to me to be a lousy patch job masking most powerset's weaknesses. Before the release of WM the only thing i would lose to guaranteed was a rage dps using berserk and outrage and i am electric, one of the powersets that was widely considered to be one of the worst. WM only makes bad dps decent(and they're thrilled about it) and already good dps even better with about a 1/3 of the effort and skill for dps. Atm its an ok addition to the game no question, however what i dislike is the lack of dps variety(or variety soley based on weapon), and what they sacrificed to achieve this "balance".

Yeah, there's definitely missing information. Tunso stated that recently, according to server-wide analyses, there have been no clear DPS "winners or losers;" however, he didn't explain why. To be fair, he may not be able to drill into the data enough to know. Of course, I don't think it's a coincidence that this "balance" accompanied the launch of WM. Because the easy WM precision combos provide the overwhelming bulk of your damage, even in a might build, the inequalities between powersets and even player skill levels are minimized. Felsa clearly demonstrated this weekend that using Electricity's brand new AM, ~75% of the damage still comes from WM combos. That was with a precision lean. Going full might would not bridge that huge a gap and would probably result in less overall damage due to decreasing the potential of your highest damage producer. Sure, WM has leveled the playing field, but it has fixed nothing. In fact, one might argue that it's left the game more broken than before it's inception.

This, so much this. I changed to Light because of the combo mechanic. I thought it was absolutely wicked that I could do these infinite chains or do a stun from another power off my bar. It was like a mind game to figure out what I could put on my bar that would let me combo into even better powers. It was great to read the HL threads and see what combos others were using to get better precision damage over the initial might ticks.

Now? My combos do not matter. It's better (or at least more feasible) to hit a WM combo and use a burst power or set up Dazed over anything else. My Awesome Mechanic is my combo ability. And right now, the best way to do damage is to hit a WM window with Chompers, and then hit a WM window with something using that PI. So, my comboing ability is being overshadowed by WM and a PI. Neither of which are considered my Awesome Mechanic.

Awesome Mechanics should meet or exceed WM. My understanding of WM when it came out was that it was an option to meet the damage of clipping. People were able to put both together, so I next heard that WM would equal a set's Awesome Mechanic. I'm hopeful that as they flesh out these Awesome Mechanics for each powerset, there'll be another internal damage pass and numbers will be modified so that the two do equal out.