We need answers.

Discussion in 'Battle of the Legends (PvP)' started by xAcHieVeD, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    LOL literally had a big laugh there you are the least objective person in this entire thread. You have given the most fallacious deficient argument as to why pvp is at its all time peak. Your responses have only been that you completely abhor the RPS system and that pvp is fine because lots of ques pop.

    just a joke
    • Like x 1
  2. xAcHieVeD Well-Known Player

    I won’t even waste my time replying to him after the nonsense I’ve read from him.
    • Like x 1
  3. xAcHieVeD Well-Known Player

    Exactly. He didn’t run during those times nor did he do competitive pvp against another set groups. Every update now just makes everyone stop pvpen even more. Getting queues doesn’t mean it’s alive and well. I still get queues for prime and Gates doesn’t mean old content is thriving and thousands are doing them. And you’re definitely right about the styles. Seems more people are happy with more styles and less content. I was watching older PvP videos a couple days ago and wow was this game fun. Literally had hundreds of people at FC, but now though? Probably not even 10 people in the pvp server. Wish the devs would just flat out give us a detailed reason why they won’t do anything anymore.
    • Like x 2
  4. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    the reason they haven't (and won't) give a straight answer is because they know no one in these types of threads would respect the reason, even though it's our own faults as the player base. the constant (nerf this!....my power needs buffing!.... i hate PVP change it again!!!) is why. the developer team for this game is TINY and all of y'all keep asking them to do the work of a literal whole MMO team worth of constant changes to a sub-part of the game which makes zero revenue, effectively the devs would be doing what a whole team over at fortnite or a sub-team over at WoW/final fantasy would.......all for FREE and no salary. the PVP community has presented the developers with a catch 22, you've all said you WON'T support the game through micro-transactions and that you don't care about cosmetics and yet those very transactions are what would allow them to pay additional developers to work solely on PVP. no matter WHAT they say, someone's going to be stirred up like a nest of hornets. PVP is pay to play? pissed players, no changes at all? really pissed players.
    • Like x 1
  5. AV Loyal Player


    I PVP'd a great deal both in groups and in random queue. I don't keep a bloody logbook as to how exactly I spend my thousands of hours of playtime though, particularly not from five or more years ago.

    As previously stated, you can't make changes to core elements of a game without alienating people. To hardcore players, anything different that doesn't build upon, enhance, or augment the pre-existing foundational gameplay elements in a constructive manner will be inevitably perceived as negative and leave a horrible taste in the mouths of previously dedicated players, even if aspects of said change have merit. Similarly, it's virtually impossible for existing players to objectively/honestly assess changes of that nature without taking a huge, prolonged step back because there will always be that bitterness that something they loved just the way it was was transformed into something different. Revamps were the reason I took an extremely long leave of absence from this game and it's precisely that sort of thing that's led me in the past to stop playing other MMOs entirely.

    The general feedback the devs get from the PVP thread is usually one or more of uber-toxic, disingenous, smothered in ego/epeen, fact-lite, QQ heavy, or coming from people who don't even really play anymore and just follow this section to gripe. The PVP community has, for as long as DCUO has existed, shot itself in the foot when it comes to dev expectations.
    • Like x 1
  6. Ringz Dedicated Player


    I too have done a great amount of pvp in both aspects as early as rps era. Your statement however is about as twisted as recoil shouting to the moon and back that pvp failure is purely players fault.

    You're right in every aspect that when a game makes changes for the purpose of making the experience more easeful for new-players or new participants, that hardcore players will always feel some type of way and start punching the air. But you know what.. duck those whiny donkey players because I gurantee you that it is not 100% of pvpers who are complaining. There always will be the voice of reason who sees benefit in a update for whatever purpose. Short and sweet but for example, lets take everybody and their mamas child favorite pvp game in the world: Fortnite.

    Fortnite recently did a patch that rewarded aggressive play-styles by each kill rewarding you: restored shields, restored health, and additional materials. Two patches later, they removed that update and added a ranked mode(which retains that feature) and casual mode(doesn't retain it). Why? Players who were ultimately way more skilled than the average player were utterly invincible and made an unfair playing ground. The devs gave about as straight up #transparency regarding why they took that feature away. Guess who complained? Every top hardcore Fortnite player in the world etc Ninja. Despite the devs giving very solid reasoning, hardcore players still complained, protested, and called the devs out that their communication was lacking and "not healthy".

    So why did I use that fortnite example? Because the dev team had communication and a solution, adding into a full package that they have a vision for their game. If those fortnite players think THAT communication is unhealthy and not genuine, then they are gonna be losing their ducking s*** if they play dcuo. What the Dcuo dev team don't have is communication-HOLD ON LET ME GET THERE-, solutions, and a clear vision for pvp and pve too. This is hardcore facts. If you're considering mepps statement regarding pvp as "communication", then you already lost the argument. Pvp was in a s***hole way before that statement and before players started shooting themselves in the foot bud.

    I seen this happen with many mmos as early as Runescape pvp servers. The beginning era of pvp isn't fleshed out but is considered the most "hardcore" period to be in and badasses truly rise from that time. As the game ages and gets more popular, then its time for the devs to settle okay we need to make this a little more accessible. This is the oldest testament in the book of MMOs. The end goal, as the example that fortnite did, is to find the middle ground as best as possible. Players will complain, yeah. But the devs are the ones with the big boy pants because they have a vision and they know what is best. And surely players come around and realize it too.

    Dcuo case... IS NONE OF THIS. Nothing explained, no solutions to compensate, no vision for the either modes. All it did was breed these type of players who think mmo are like " We need to come up with ideas for the devs that will also bring in money because this is a business and they need to profit". MAN, if you were to take the same mentality to any other mmo, you would get slapped in the face for thinking that bs. I been playing SWTOR and even they are in a better spot than SWTOR, and they about as shady with their updates and loot boxes than dcuo.
    • Like x 1
  7. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    while i will give you it isn't 100% the player base's fault at this point, (given the example of our "new" tutorial that still doesn't teach anything), even in your example the devs over at fortnite IGNORE the player base, something the vast majority of PVPERS have complained about in this very thread and dozens like it. so should the players just accept being ignored and the developers just doing what they want to do themselves? or should there be transparency and the players "listened" to as they've all been shouting to be? this is indeed a case of "can't have your cake and eat it too.", and given that we have a vast majority of the player base who think "MOAR BURN THE RAID WILL FINISH FASTER!!!" in some raids/alerts which are clearly mechanics based for the most part (a conclusion i came to while observing inside countless raids, not the forums, thus it is a conclusion based on real time data) i don't see the player base of dcuo "manning up" quite frankly, as i've observed even our more "mature" portion of the player base on PVP side shouting profane ghetto insults at each other in the watch tower and open world ....... just another reason why i keep shout off.
  8. Ringz Dedicated Player


    Im glad you asked that, because now we are going to go into the complex difference between what dcuo did and what fortnite did(if we were to still use that example). I will start off by saying your right, some players definitely want all their cake and to eat it too, but again thats where the middle ground needs to be met. You said it yourself and are right, players will complain no matter what. It is the devs best interest to soften that blow with their middle ground. I dont know, but as far as im aware every time I go on twitch and homepage hits my sight, I still see Ninja playing fortnite. But he back-lashed right? On to that later.

    The only times where dcuo has had something similar happen here compared to fortnite were the introduction of WM, and new players stats boosted in arenas. IT IS OKAY for devs to experiment. Jens gave a very solid reasoning for why WM was introduced(I know it was for both pve and pvp, but lets try to keep best related to pvp), which was to help speed up arenas 4s and 5s premade matches competitive. Communication. They implemented the system, despite being flawed execution wise(75%-100% chance to one shot opponents even on block + guaranteed crits) it still was an experiment the devs tried; similar to fortnite aggressive mechanic system. Solution. While doing FNLs as a basis, it was a clear cut path of where the devs wanted to take things. Vision.

    Now on to the second. Stat boosting and Stat clamping. Now this is where we get to the part of players backlash vs what the devs intended to do. It is clear as day arena stat boosting/clamping were for the new players to not get molly whopped in arenas immediately by seasoned pvpers. Hardcore players did not like that because the mantra was "Players should work for their stats and be able to use them fully" or "Players with alot of SP should be able to utilize all of it fully".. I was one of those backlash people. I down the road accepted and understood why that update was made and important(if you don't understand basically, you were able to pull off some crazy close to 1 shot move if your crits were right on top of low level pvpers toughness being low). Hardcore players will eventually understand the devs system if its merit is right.................... right??? What I did not mention and left off on purpose is that stat boosting mechanics was also introduced in a era where YOU WERE ABLE TO 100% GUARANTEE 1-SHOT WITH NORMAL WEAPON COMBOS! On to the final point.

    Those two mention updates were the only updates that the devs were attempting a genuine middle ground, but every other pvp update that came later or around the same time as those updates were GARBAGE. This is where you are now pissing players off and devs need to listen to feedback immediately or cause a mass exodus of players. Sounds alot like Anthem situation right? Welcome to current state of DCUO, pvp and might as well add pve too. You cannot add/change something as your solution and not communicate your reason why - 3 tap rule changed to 5 tap rule despite 3 tap only weapons-. You cannot say you see a basic problem and take 2 years to fix it - Batman and Robin BBs damage-. And you certainly cannot ignore your players when you clearly have a lack of vision, and that is dcuo pvp being ignored for 4 years straight. To say that all pvp threads are nothing but uber toxic hateful spewing disingenuous threads from Crash point, is an insult to the pvp players that: 1) spent countless of hours undergoing every single thing wrong with pvp and giving solutions, 2) all the threads made with excel spreadsheets of every damage number that is off,3) the best DCUO youtubers+ top pvpers+ someone from the community council doing weekly podcasts of pvp and even getting in heated topics trying to calm down pvpers because of frustration anger and impatiences, and 4) every genuine idea that players made as a last resort for pvp giving a clear cut path of how to fix pvp while also monetizing.... We still got nothing. Doing all of this while the ignorant urban a** children kept giving pvpers a bad rep, because lets face it. As much as I enjoyed my days in HOTr chat and being apart of many "what would my mother think of this" fights and argument, dcuo being a f2p console game with a pvp system..... the kids definitely came to town.

    To say will today pvpers man up now?? I don't know. Dcuo as a pvp game, and as a whole is no longer under my willpower to offer jurisdiction. You cannot make people wait. I quit, Crash quit, OP stated to quit. Rather people want to believe it or not, Pvp existence being shunned and ignored caused a huge stain in dcuo population as the players left, the top dcuo youtubers who kept the game seemingly fresh with content left, and its not like pve side is holding the game up any better. But what I will not allow is when dcuo comes to its grave, and for its pvp to be remembered as an abandon hot mess solely because of pvp players being uncontrollably toxic and hardheaded to reason.
    • Like x 1
  9. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    very well said. i've come to realize that dcuo shot itself in the foot from the get-go, square one. the tutorial compounded by the attitudes of elite end game players and new inexperienced insecure players alike has effectively caused a self perpetuating loop of bad player behavior and performance in PVE, and PVP has been ignored......... not really a good thing, it's especially bad when you consider that dcuo is supposed to be much more adult oriented than fortnite ironically o_O.
    • Like x 1
  10. Quantile Well-Known Player

    Are you more concerned with the actual mechanics of PVP because you want them to fix it or are you just asking for free feats because you’re too lazy to grind for them like the rest of us did?
  11. KrilTsuuroth Well-Known Player

    Idk how you happened to come to that conclusion after reading all of his complaints.. Many of the complaints being valid. It had nothing to do with free feats and everything to do with the issues regarding PvP, which makes it 300x times harder to obtain said feats because no one is running them and when they do it's a sh*t show anyways which keeps them from wanting to return.
    • Like x 3
  12. xAcHieVeD Well-Known Player

    The rest of us did? I’ve had 98% of the PvP feats done since 2013.... I’m literally only missing the 2016 pvp set because pvp is trash and the belle wins. I just refuse to do arenas when everyone’s spamming rage, HL, mental or gadgets Or Dealing with everyone exploiting 2Face/Rifle. I personally don’t care how you feel. Most of the older pvpers all agreed it’s terrible and a snooze fest. Did you even read my post anyways? Would you like to talk about how they don’t even bother fixing Saint Walker who has a 100% SC and it literally gives you no health or your power back even though it’s supposed to? Would you like to talk about why I can’t block anyone using Rifle 5 Tap? We already spoke about the spam fest. If you’re not Gadgets, Mental, Rage or HL there’s almost no reason to even try arenas. As I said before I did some PvP at the time of the post with some pretty known Legends/PvPers (ACE 1 and Embraced) and they’ll never log back into dc they said due to the negligence of pvp. Trust me I’ve gave it a few tries to try and adapt, but I’m not changing my powers to have “fun” and spam my powers over and over again. We also can talk about why blue immunity doesn’t work anymore either. It’s up to you, we can see if you actually pvped or just wanted to make a statement and assume I need “free feats”.
    • Like x 1
  13. xAcHieVeD Well-Known Player

    Thanks! At least someone actually read my post. I also just logged in to check my feats most of them were done 2012-13 lol.
    • Like x 2
  14. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    Lol. I would venture to guess the majority of peeps that refer to themselves as vets have had PvP feats done for years. Evens the ones that you and most other got for free. Those outback and moon 250 wins. You'll got lucky.

    Most of us want PvP fixed. Doing so will effect the PvE side. So they cant judt come in and starting tweaking things.
    • Like x 2
  15. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    Slacker. Get on then Belle wins. ;)
  16. xAcHieVeD Well-Known Player

    I tried I got to like 22 lol it was all legends too I couldn’t do arenas
  17. appocolyps Committed Player

    1000% agree, its always been broken, there has always been a meta, you just have to find this one, even 4s 5s scrims could be fun if people stick to a few simple rules and play roles instead of stacking dps!
    • Like x 1
  18. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    i know right? it's like people don't even know there's a hate table, what controller debuffs and buffs and crowd controls do, or even what healers do..... all they know how to do is point and fire at something. before we do anything *takes a deep breath* we should honestly fix the tutorial and early game shortly there after so players DO have some general idea what to do. i support the idea of a solo instance like the titan simulator duo or the vault where it's small but has multiple waves of difficulty and rewards it's own unique form of currency which can then be spent on feats or pure SP, not a lot mind you just 10 point feats or one SP for 10 to 30 instance specific marks. such a system would essentially better prepare new players for doing things RIGHT for once and would equal reward them for effort put into their own development. and best of all, they can't "fool" the system by using external marks, mandatory progression.
    • Like x 2
  19. Soul Dedicated Player

    Reading this thread was painful.
    The prodigal son returns! O:

    *Pat pat*

    You tried your best.
  20. KodyDerp Dedicated Player

    This game is so ancient looking that even if PvP were to be prioritized, tweaked, and/or monetized, the game overall would still be bland. I was ready for DCUO 2 about 3 years ago..
    • Like x 1